Talk:Soccer mom

Interesting...
here in Canada, as far as I can tell, this phrase has been stripped of its political overtones. I have always known it to mean (based on its context in casual conversations) as a mom who takes an active part in her son or daughters sports life, typified by carting the kids around in a mini-van to their soccer games.

Yes, associated perhaps with boring and self-sacrificing, but not with a political point of view.

The section describing the pop culture references has a paragraph of gibberish, incomplete sentences, missing words, its so bad I can't even correct it - I don't know what the author was trying to say.

SUVs
Most stereotypical images of soccer moms display them with SUVs or other big vans.

Hockey mum
Could somebody direct 'hockey mum' to this article, simply because Sarah Palin is now receiving a lot of press in Britain.

One sided POV in the article
There seems to be an attempt to paint the soccer mom as liberal in this article, when some people actually consider the stereotype to be conservative. Assuming that they would only vote Democrat shows a one-sidedness to this stereotype, which is used by both sides of the political spectrum to insult each other. Also, I've heard more people talk about "SUV driving soccer moms" than minivan driving ones. I've heard a similar flipside to the anti-creationism stereotype as well. -- LGagnon 01:20, Feb 1, 2005 (UTC)
 * I perceive that the McCain-Palin presidential campaign is attempting to create a distinct political identity in "hockey mom". The term "soccer mom" played a similar identity role in the 1996 U.S. presidential campaign. Because Bill Clinton won that election, supposedly with the votes of the "soccer mom", the 2008 creation of a "hockey mom" identity for conservatives renders "soccer mom" a liberal identity by default. More accurately, the Republicans would have us see "soccer moms" as the past and "hockey moms" as the future. Hopefully some citations can be found to support my analysis for the article or articles.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.220.164.38 (talk) 01:44, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

restored original name
Why was this article renamed and replaced with a disambiguation page, with a link to a non-existing article, Soccer mom (Canada)? I have undone the move. -- Viajero 13:36, 4 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Added definition
Added definition(s) as I know, and have seen used very often. Also, To the best of my knowledge this IS a one sided word. I've never heard the word used to describe a repulican, or female party member of a group other than liberal EXCEPT if they were a bad driver of a minivan/SUV; in which case political beliefs were not a factor, the driver was assumed liberal/a Democrat.

Liberal vs. conservative
I have always associated soccer moms with conservatism and I was surprised when I read this article. I was wondering if the liberal/conservative thing may have more to do with the area than the soccer moms themselves; here in the suburban South I think that soccer moms are quite conservative. I would like to strip at least most of the political stuff out of the article. TomTheHand 20:15, Mar 30, 2005 (UTC)

I'd have to agree with that. I'm pretty shocked that there's nothing in here about the general conception of Soccer Moms as overbearing parents with too many opinions and too much time. Lines like "This video game is sure to upset the soccer moms" or "The soccer moms are throwing a fit about such and such on TV" are common enough to warrant a mention I'd say. Charagon 7:08, Dec. 2, 2007.


 * I would imagine that both urban and suburban soccer moms are more or less as conservative or liberal as are other mothers in their area. Soccer moms are a demographic that both the Republican and Democratic Parties feel they can target, that indicates that they aren't inherently liberal or conservative, but a swing demographic. As for taking the politics out of the article, the only reason most people even know of the term is from its political use.--RLent (talk) 20:11, 12 July 2010 (UTC)

Recent edits
Just wanted to thank Samaritan for the recent revisions to this page. It looks great now! It's much less biased and in my opinion provides a really good definition and history of the term. TomTheHand 21:18, Apr 19, 2005 (UTC)


 * *blush* Aww, thanks! The heart of it was there; it just needed more context in places. Samaritan 21:33, 19 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Related Terms
I am not a native speaker (perhaps a naive one) and have a question: can somebody explain the related "sucker mom" and it's place in the discourse to me. (Ok, I know the saucy side of the term, but I thought, ther might be more to it. Thanks.
 * I just did a quick word search in the article and couldn't find the word "sucker" anywhere. Did you see the two terms linked together elsewhere and then come here to find out how they may have been related? Dismas|(talk) 16:50, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

probably needs a little background
I'm not sure where to best put this, but for those who aren't from North America some background might make things more comprehensible. In particular, soccer as a professional-level sport is not very popular in the U.S. or Canada, but soccer leagues for suburban children are extremely common. So in contrast to, say, Europe, in the U.S. and Canada the very mention of the sport has an association with suburban children's leagues. --130.207.119.24 12:58, 28 June 2006 (UTC)! lol!

Image
Man, it would be incredible if there were a subject photo for this article like this. I wish I knew a soccer mom type willing to stage it, so I could release it the public domain. Does anyone else? --nathanbeach  15:36, 3 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Hang out at a suburban elementary school with a camera and snap some pictures of a woman with a bunch of bratty kids. --Kalmia 19:26, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

disconnect
Disconnect is not a noun; it is a verb. If you connect (v.) something, you have a connection (n). If you disconnect (v>) something, you have a disconnection (n.).

Feel free to edit accordingly.


 * In California English, at least, disconnect functions as both an noun and a verb, whereas disconnection is awkward and rare. Atropos 08:57, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

Missing defn added, many citations needed, remove racial and restructure it vastly minimized.
Most of this article contains questionable text. It didn't include the main definition, so I've included it at the top. The article even tries to establish a link to race which I consider wrong. The terms associated meanings are rapidly changing as soccer takes a greater hold in the US and they are heard and adapted in the rest of the world. Today's meaning is different than the meaning yesterday or one, 10 or 20 years ago. It would be wise to minimize the text related to this term, cite it all and revisit it frequently. In short, I think it needs to be rewritten. Edit June 5th - The Citation banner was placed at the top of page and the few lines of text I added removed (now gone). In my opinion the article doesn't represent the meaning (that most people associate) of "Soccer mom" and instead represents it as more political/historical (which might still be used as additions). I am fairly confident that the Denver soccer mom first knew/thought of the term (even if 1 second before stage delivery) in relation to its simple definition "A Woman (normally mother) taking an active interest in (generally taking to play - not always driving) children playing soccer". That's fairly close to the removed sentence I think!!! When I initially wrote it I double checked, and this meaning was the first definition in the dictionary I used, and the political side was second.

The definition suggested above is vague and awkwardly worded, as well as redundant: of course soccer moms are normally mothers! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.160.174.24 (talk) 19:24, 29 July 2008 (UTC)


 * I've reworded/expanded the article and added citations for every statement. It seems well cited now, so I've removed the banner.  There is still more to do, add more sources and add material from the existing sources.--Work permit (talk) 05:04, 7 September 2008 (UTC)
 * A much needed improvement to the article - nice job. -- The Red Pen of Doom  05:52, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

Congratulations
One of the best entries on Wikipedia (along with the expansive definition of the word "Bollocks") I have seen. There are always those pseudo-intellectual twerps, mainly Americans unfortunately, who agressively dismiss anything they don't happen to agree with or, more likely understand, as "liberal" but this is a wonderful definition of a harmless and devoted segment of our society.

Australia
Soccor mom is rarely used in Australian political discourse. However, a phenomenon commonly referred to as "Doctor's wives" is often used to describe upper/middle-class house wives with "small-l liberal" views moving from support of the Liberal Party to various left-wing parties. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 123.2.96.240 (talk) 07:07, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

Yes, I came across the phrase "doctors' wives" in Aus. It wouldn't apply only to wives of medical doctors but to those of higher level graduates, not least PhDs, as well. I did hear a "middle class mum" talking about taking her daughter to soccer, but the Aussie attitude to soccer is still rather sneering and on occasions racist. Millbanks (talk) 09:01, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

I agree, the reference to the use of the term in Australia seems to be based on a single newspaper article, which actually attributes the term to American political discourse. In fact, if you read the referenced article, it is referring to a payment given to lower income families who have pre-school age children in childcare. These are decidedly NOT "soccer mums". I also agree with the point Millbanks above, that soccer is not a universally popular sport here and is generally associated with recent immigrants, not middle class affluence. I believe that the entire section "In Australia" should simply be removed. 202.182.87.35 (talk) 03:56, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

I agree as well. Passage removed--Work permit (talk) 03:59, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

Europe
In Europe the term "Soccer Mom" is identically with "MILF" - so its quite disturbing seeing it used in respected publications and I had a good laugh when Mrs Palin (vice presidential candidate in the US) referred to herself as "Hockey Mom". To clarify this for People not from the US or Canada I would agree if the Background proposed in Section == probably needs a little Background == was added to the article

Is a 'Hockey Mom' the same as a 'Soccer Mom'?
According to Wikipedia, it is ('hockey mom' redirects here.) But this Slate article  differentiates them, in the light of Sarah Palin's profligate use of the term.

example videos
I think a "hockey mom" is a more aggressive version of soccer mom, and this should be mentioned on the front page.
 * hockey mom home video (bad language)
 * Daily Show bit shows Sarah Palin make the joke "Q:how is a hockey mom different from a pit bull? A:lipstick" —Preceding unsigned comment added by Chekholko (talk • contribs) 17:06, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

I expanded the term a bit and added a few references.--Work permit (talk) 04:33, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

uncited references
I deleted uncited references to "popular minivans amongst soccer moms"--Work permit (talk) 04:48, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

Cattle Hauler
A recent history of the cattle hauler link is as follows. The editor who first added data about the auto ad linked cattle hauler to Cowboy. His/her original edit constituted POV and original research. The contribution, including the link, turned out to be a bit of a slur, meant to suggest that hockey mom denotes someone somewhat less than feminine. I ignored the original research violatioin and left most of the passage in, but at least made sure that the link was gender-appropriate.

Your concern that the link was off-topic is reasonable, but the term, cattle hauler, is novel enough that it does need to be connected to its meaning. If you think about it, the whole section about a car commercial is rather off-topic and represents original research. The way to enter that info in a Wikipedia article would technically be to cite it from a published source, such as a newspaper article about hockey moms that mentions the ad. Then it would be legitimate for use in the Wikipedia the article. It is not, but if we leave the stuff there at all, it makes sense to properly link cattle hauler.

Maybe the whole original research infraction should be excised. 129.49.251.174 (talk) 23:53, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Errata--The NYT instance is not so much an ad as a promotional review or editorial. The original research problem remains, nevertheless. 129.49.251.174 (talk) 00:00, 17 September 2008 (UTC)
 * 1) the manual of style says not to link inside quotes.
 * 2) there is no proof anywhere that the author of the quote intended "cattle hauler" means "cowboy" or "cowgirl" . Making such connection for the reader is a violation of WP:SYN. -- The Red Pen of Doom  01:00, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

I'm the original editor who added the link. One of my earlier edits is identical to the one that stands now. I wikid the term cattle hauler to the closest term i could think of, for the benefit of readers who didn't know what a ”cattle hauler" was. I meant no slur, and didn't consider the gender specific nature of the term.  I admit to adding a dry joke afterwards. It was a joke in line with Palin's "lipstick" comment. I meant no slur, in fact just the opposite.  I agree with removing both the wiki link and the joke. The purpose of the citation is to simply to cite the first use of the term (outside it's literal sense) from an article (not an ad) from a wp:rs. Without such a citation, the reader would be left with the impression that the term was a recent invention.   Removing the citation though would leave readers with a false sense of the history of the term.--Work permit (talk) 03:13, 17 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Sounds good to me; thanks for the discussion. 129.49.251.174 (talk) 22:04, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

“Hockey Mom” is faux vernacular
If “Hockey Mom” does manage to find it’s way into the vernacular fine, but clearly there is no distinct criteria under which one could characterize a Women as such. This was a spurious term created to aggrandize Sarah Palin, and I defy anyone to define the criteria, and tie together common characteristics other then kids involved in Hockey. By the way, even by that non definitive definition, Palin was a “Hockey Mom” for one year, some eight years ago. The concept faux to the core. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 144.160.5.25 (talk) 21:55, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

"Hockey Mom" vs. "Soccer Mom"
A Hockey Mom is not the same as a Soccer Mom, and should have its own heading. Although both are invoved in their children's sports, a Soccer Mom is very passive in her support, i.e. her child is there to have fun; all games should be tied; etc. A Hockey Mom on the other hand is very feisty, i.e. chanting, animated, banging on the glass, etc., and her child is there to win. In Canada, both terms are often used outside of their respective sports to describe a person's behaviour. Procorp (talk) 12:29, 11 October 2008 (UTC)

Hockey mom was a term contrived to agrandize the image of Sarah Palin, nothing more. You can reverse engeneer the term now if you like, and apply it to the prototypical obnoxious parent (either gender) of a child in any sport, but that does not make it a real term or a legitimate part of the vernacular. Cosand (talk) 21:35, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

Dubious
In this edit, I removed a reference to the New York Times article because it did not support the preceding statement. Without that support, the statement is of highly dubious nature. Powers T 01:50, 30 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Absent a reliable source, I'm deleting the reference. Even if a reference is found, the observation doesn't belong in the intro section--Work permit (talk) 00:57, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

England
In England (and I suspect Scotland too), soccer attracts the (inaccurate) stereoytpe of being exclusively a working class male pursuit, so "soccer mom" (or mum) would be a very foreign concept. Possibly there's such a thing as a "rugby mum" Millbanks (talk) 09:06, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Wouldn't it be "football mum"? Wormwoodpoppies (talk) 03:42, 4 March 2009 (UTC)

Dispute: Popularity
The sentences and section about popularity are rather arbitrary. They don't say "where" the term became popular, nor do any of the references provide a reliable source support these statements that the term became popular after 1995. The term "soccer mom" can be found in numerous articles, movies, etc going back at least to the 1980's and probably much further back. Someone else has also mentioned that the term "soccer" means different things depending on which side of the Atlantic you grew up in. The ShadowSkull (talk • contribs) 13:24, 9 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Addressing your issue with the term "popularity" in the lead, I have reworded the lead to be fully consistent with the wp:rs article statement. I have removed the  tag in the lead.--Work permit (talk) 03:03, 10 October 2009 (UTC)


 * I have removed the section title called "popularization", merging the first two sections. All statements in this section are cited from wp:rs so I believe I have addressed your issue with titling the section "popularization".  So I have removed your tag.  Please provide wp:rs for any statement in that section you disagree with.--Work permit (talk) 02:03, 10 October 2009 (UTC)


 * regarding your observation that ""soccer mom" can be found in numerous articles", do you have any wp:notable usage of the term? Or better yet, wp:rs saying the term was popular before 1995?--Work permit (talk) 03:03, 10 October 2009 (UTC)


 * regarding what "Someone else has also mentioned", that has been addressed and deleted as not meeting threshold of wp:notable--Work permit (talk) 03:05, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

Thank you for your observations, the changes made because of them are for the better--Work permit (talk) 02:51, 10 October 2009 (UTC)


 * "the changes made because of them are for the better" - I agree. And thank you for all the hard work you put into making this article better. If I come across any earlier reference to "soccer mom", I'll try to remember to post.  The ShadowSkull (talk • contribs) 11:25, 12 October 2009 (UTC)

Talk:Soccer dad
Years ago, there was an article call "Soccer dad." It was removed and redirected here, to "Soccer mom." Does anyone think "soccer dad" means the same thing and belongs here, in the Soccer mom article? Dekyi 23:10, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

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Frameless uncaptioned image in lede
I've placed a frameless, uncaptioned image in the lede. The image of a woman with a crinkled coat standing alone under an umbrella in the rain watching children at a soccer game. I feel the image artistically captures the essence of "a North American, middle-class, suburban, white woman who spends a significant amount of her time transporting her school-age children to youth sporting events."---- Work permit (talk) 15:46, 9 August 2019 (UTC)