Talk:Social fiction

Social Fiction claims to be only from Poland, but this seems extremely unlikely. Utopias and discussion of social systems is a staple of science fiction, as I recall. Does anyone know why this article is so polish-centric ?
 * So is political fiction. From the sound of it, the term was used specifically for this genre only in Poland around the time stated (before "the collapse of communism"). We should check that "social fiction" and "political fiction" are not used widely to describe, for example, broader genres with different characteristics. And maybe the articles should be integrated somehow, perhaps with a more historic account of the Polish fiction in question (with specific titles, probably). As for what article this should be under, it might require some kind of disambiguation like Social fiction (Polish) or perhaps the Polish name for the genre if that is used widely in English. However, I don't know anything about the subject, so someone who does will have to take the lead. --Sam 15:02, 6 Dec 2003 (UTC)
 * Ah, Janusz A. Zajdel seems an important figure. And whoever wrote the comment on his talk page (a long time ago) doesn't know if he was even translated into English. So perhaps a Polish name for the genre exists and would be more appropriate.

Zajdel's books have only been translated to Russian, German, Czech and Bulgarian - not English. And yes, social fiction is used (rarely) to describe not only Polish books (do a Google search for "social fiction" and "political fiction"), but also books like 1984 or Clockwork Orange. It was, however, very popular in Poland in the 1980s. I think the article and the political fiction one should be rewritten to reflect that it was not only specific to Poland. Ausir

I've rewritten it to make it less Polish-centric. Ausir

The way this page is written now, this doesn't add anything that isn't covered under Utopia or Dystopia. Does it still make sense to keep this a separate page?

--Martin Wisse 22:09, 16 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * I agree with Martin Wisse that this probably should not be a separate article. However, I'd be more inclined to place it as a subsection in the social science fiction article, which is currently just a stub, and needs to be expanded anyway.--Bcrowell 23:05, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)

This article seems goofy to me. I don't think "social fiction" and "social science fiction" are commonly used as synonyms in English, and I don't think social science fiction necessarily focused on utopias and dystopias, or in general, was any kind of a commentary on communism. I've heard the term used to describe the kind of science fiction that began to be written by authors like Heinlein in the 1940's in U.S. pulp magazines, where they got away from the obsession with gadgets and space opera.--Bcrowell 22:28, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I've eliminated the redirect from social science fiction, and started a separate article there.--Bcrowell 22:36, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)

- Hey, people! Do you realize that while writing this article we all have invented a new genre of fiction? In fact the whole article seems to be a centaur, an object that has never existed in reality, and i was one of those who developed this confusion: I just wanted to write something about russian science fiction authors. But this idea could be better realized in a separate article, i.e. "russian science fiction authors". Sorry, i'll try to deminish my probably negative influence on "social fiction" article. ellol 09:20, 18 November 2005 (UTC)
 * By now the article describes a "centaur", whose legs are fiction concerning totalitarian societies -- such as We and Brave new world, while the head of "centaur" is russian social science fiction. Though the topic of totalitarism is/was presented in russian scifi, it (imho!) was not much essential. At least if you compare it with e.g. "One day of Ivan Denisovich" or Dudintsev's "White clothes" not speaking about "Archipelag GULAG" you'll see what i mean.


 * The whole following piece concerns social science fiction not social fiction (as it is determined), So i'm removing it from this article:


 * Modern Russian scifi has strong influence of social fiction. Sergey Lukianenko in novel Zvjozdnaja Tenj (Sidereal Shadow) described 'society of absolute freedom', in which everyone could choose a planet satisfying one's subconscious feelings. Earth-like world in which Doomsday happens every two decades is shown in Marina and Sergey Dyachenko's Armaged-dom (Armaged-Home); the authors wrote undescribable Pandem, in which superbeing Pandem tried to help Earth people evolving... and what about Civilization of intelligent sheeps, struggling to survive in Volchya sytj (Wolves' food)?
 * Website of Russian scifi and fantasy writers. Bright authors, each of them deserves a particular article. Are they writing social fiction? Yes, some of them: Lyubov and Yevgeny Lukin, Vyacheslav Rybakov, Alexander Gromov.
 * ellol 12:23, 18 November 2005 (UTC)


 * reaction to the domination of the Soviet Union That is the thing to be proved. I doubt in it. Could anybody explain to me, a dumb thing, why it was reaction to the domination of the Soviet Union?
 * As we also have sub-genre of science fiction I doubt we need It is related to the subgenre usually referred to as social science fiction. (Centaur doesn't need spare ears, hehe).


 * Btw, could anybody write more about Polish books here?
 * ellol 22:20, 18 November 2005 (UTC)

---
 * I suppose that if the article were moved to "Political fiction" or some other place, it would gain some sense. The word "Social fiction" 1) doesn't tell us much about peculiarities of the thing (as Fiction concerning totalitarism could do) 2) it tries to mix with Social science fiction. So i think there's a need of another title better reflecting the article. ellol 22:20, 18 November 2005 (UTC)


 * The Polish books mentioned here are called "fantastyka sociologiczna" which means something more alike "social speculative fiction" than "social fiction", so it probably should be moved to "social science fiction". Ausir 21:46, 25 November 2005 (UTC)


 * Thank you. Well... What is the problem? The term social science fiction means "less of gadgets and more of society" in english sci-fi(as i understood it from reading the article). In russian sci-fi there is a term "social'naya fantastika" with also that meaning -- that is more interest to the development of the society, while usually retaining the means of science fiction. Both of them don't necessarily concern totalitarian societies, though totalitarism is a distinct theme in them. But this doesn't work for the case of Polish "fantastyka sociologiczna", if i'm not mistaken.


 * There are two major ways for further development. 1) Starting a new article "Social science fiction (Polish)" with a major accent on it and just removing current Social fiction. 2) Placing the passage about Polish Social science fiction in some context, as a part of some processes with larger time-span. This could be made as a section in social science fiction (which could be based on current social fiction if you want). Then removing current social fiction.


 * You choose. (I mean you or other Polish fans...) ellol 15:14, 26 November 2005 (UTC)