Talk:Social stigma of obesity/Archive 1

Missing reference
I'm surprised to see that Everything You Know About Obesity Is Wrong missing entirely as a reference from this page, given that it's (to my understanding) by far the most influential/seminal journalistic work on obesity in recent times. Anyone who wants to improve this page might benefit from mining it for sources/material. &#123;{u&#124; Sdkb  }&#125;  talk 22:08, 8 November 2020 (UTC)

Rename article
I propose that the title of this article should be changed to "Weight Stigma." That is the term that is widely used within studies and research. Changing it will also make the article easier to find for the public. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.245.60.34 (talk • contribs) 19:17, 14 September 2021 (UTC)
 * That can be done, but we'll need to see some evidence. A quick Google Book search suggests the term is used widely enough, but it's not overwhelming enough for me to just change it. And we already have a redirect for Weight stigma that leads here. Drmies (talk) 17:19, 14 September 2021 (UTC)

Misleading information and misinterpretation of source information?
In the Characteristics section of this article, it is stated “the majority of the United States is overweight or obese” but the citation for this (a JAMA article) actually states that 1/3 can be characterized as obese and only when adjusted for age, does the article conclude that the “majority” are overweight or obese. Natelr13 (talk) 01:08, 24 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Only 1/3rd are obese, but the majority are either overweight OR obese. ParticipantObserver (talk) 13:24, 28 October 2021 (UTC)

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 26 August 2019 and 9 December 2019. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Charmi98.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 03:41, 18 January 2022 (UTC)

Disability and relationship to ableism
The lede of the article mentions disability services but nothing in the article relates the social stigma of obesity to the social stigma around disabilities, despite health being a supposed motivator for said stigma. is there a relationship between obesity and disability? if not, why are obese people given access to disability services? if so, shouldn't that be addressed somewhere in the article? I'm confused and unsure how to edit or if the connection between the two types of discrimination actually has secondary sources on it - I'll look up some and maybe edit this article later Feralcateater000 (talk) 16:48, 13 December 2021 (UTC) -
 * Again I don't know where or if this should be brought up in the article but the social stigma of obesity has been theorized as being similar to and able to be fought against using the social model of disability. I don't know if this is a fringe viewpoint or not so I haven't edited the article because I don't want to be adding original research by accident. If I added anything to the article I think I would put it under the theoretical explanations section. Health seems to be intrinsically linked to obesity, and health related stigma seems to fall under the category of ableism and the lede of the article even brings up disability but the meat of the article doesn't.  Am I alone in this conceptualization? Feralcateater000 (talk) 15:04, 22 January 2022 (UTC)

Proposed edits
Hello, We are students assigned to create/edit a wikipedia page for one of our courses. Below is a link to a proposed expansion of this article. We would love feedback! User:Rodrluis1989/sandbox — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rodrluis1989 (talk • contribs) 02:14, 13 October 2016 (UTC)
 * It appears you accidentally deleted the link that the above text refers to. The proposed expansion of this article is here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Rodrluis1989/sandbox ParticipantObserver (talk) 13:31, 28 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Hi ParticipantObserver, the shorter Wiki-link User:Rodrluis1989/sandbox works just as well. :-) Laurier (talk) 17:41, 28 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Ah, sorry! I didn't see that. Thanks. ParticipantObserver (talk) 18:37, 28 January 2022 (UTC)

Addition of Language and Race Subsections
Hey y’all, we are making edits as part of a class with the guidance of a Professor and a librarian and would like to add some subsections to the article regarding language use, specifically citing studies on terminology preferences within the fat activist community as well as  the intersectionality between race and weight stigma. — Preceding unsigned comment added by C7MP (talk • contribs) 21:16, 28 March 2022 (UTC)

Requested move 7 August 2022

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. 

The result of the move request was: not moved. Seems that the proposed title has been mostly opposed for undesirably changing the scope of the article. (closed by non-admin page mover) — Ceso femmuin mbolgaig mbung, mellohi! (投稿) 07:38, 30 August 2022 (UTC)

Social stigma of obesity → Fat shaming – I propose rename to fat shaming or fatphobia as there's a lexeme/term for this topic per WP:NOUN and WP:UCRN. Also body positive activists usually prefer "fat" over "obese" as it seems stigmatizing/medicalizing/manicomial — Tazuco  ✉️ 20:09, 7 August 2022 (UTC) — Relisting. – robertsky (talk) 20:45, 15 August 2022 (UTC)  — Relisting. – robertsky (talk) 05:08, 23 August 2022 (UTC)


 * It should also be noted that the content here was merged from Anti-fat bias and Weight stigma. Fatness is more socially and politically correct over obesity — Tazuco  ✉️ 20:10, 7 August 2022 (UTC)


 * Oppose: I don't think those are the same thing. "Shaming" seems more overt and direct, while a social stigma can be more pervasive, subtle and hidden. Moreover, "fat shaming" seems rather informal (and somewhat of a neologism) for an encyclopedic subject. —&#8288;&#8202;&#8288;BarrelProof (talk) 04:22, 8 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Oppose: Use of the term "fat" generally increases stigma, and is therefore not preferred. Further, many of the sources cited in the article specifically deal with obesity (operationalized by a high BMI value) rather than adiposity. ParticipantObserver (talk) 10:45, 8 August 2022 (UTC)

I agree with the proposed change and generally think Fatphobia is a good change. This page has limited visibility as Social Stigma of Obesity is not part of the lexicon. Obese is overly medicalizing and fat activists do not prefer that term. Due to the very BMI being a very limited tool, those that are categorized as obese are not necessarily considered fat (the clique example is that The Rock is considered obese). I feel strongly that the word fat should be included in the title, as fat shaming and stigma toward fat folks is not defined by a specific weight cutoff. SarahLalevee (talk) 14:57, 10 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Oppose, due encyclopedic language and source usage per User:ParticipantObserver. PrisonerB (talk) 14:59, 10 August 2022 (UTC)


 * Many of the sources use a specific weight cutoff / BMI, and use the term "obese". I agree that there are reasons to think that that is not the ideal approach, since it counts The Rock as obese (though he and other bodybuilders are an exception to the rule). But WP:NOR; I don't think we can just discard the terminology used in the sources because we disagree with their approach. ParticipantObserver (talk) 15:36, 10 August 2022 (UTC)

Not sure how fatphobia isn’t considered encyclopedic language, given that homophobia has a wiki page. I do agree that Fat Shaming is perhaps not formal language but a discriminatory social phobia is a well documented phenomenon. SarahLalevee (talk) 15:10, 10 August 2022 (UTC)
 * I just want to note that the homophobia page also describes that term as problematic (and incorrect when interpreted literally). I don't think that we should use one problematic term simply because another problematic term is in use. ParticipantObserver (talk) 15:41, 10 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Because of phobia? There's homomisia — Tazuco  ✉️ 16:46, 10 August 2022 (UTC)
 * I should also be noted that this page was previously named Weightism before the merge — Tazuco  ✉️ 17:36, 10 August 2022 (UTC)
 * I would support changing the page name back to Weightism. ParticipantObserver (talk) 22:15, 10 August 2022 (UTC)


 * Just a note, the user who started this discussion is a globally blocked sock, see . PRAXIDICAE🌈 22:17, 10 August 2022 (UTC)
 * CC the three significant contributors to this discussion: @BarrelProof@ParticipantObserver@PrisonerB PRAXIDICAE🌈 22:34, 10 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Well, if User:SarahLalevee withdraws their support here, we can wrap this up early. PrisonerB (talk) 09:11, 11 August 2022 (UTC)
 * I think this is still a discussion worth having, as the name of the article has been questioned for some time now (see 'Rename article' and 'Rename Article to "Anti-Fat Bias"' above). I think there is general agreement that 'social stigma of obesity' is not a fantastic name for the article. There has been opposition to all proposed alternatives so far, but is there any opposition to changing the name back to Weightism? ParticipantObserver (talk) 10:54, 11 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Note that there is also a Sizeism page, which includes this topic but also height-based discrimination. ParticipantObserver (talk) 10:58, 11 August 2022 (UTC)

I definitely do not withdraw my support. I feel very strongly that the name as it stands is very poor. Doing a quick Google Trends search, fatphobia has a much better hit rate than Weightism, which to my knowledge is not a word fat liberationists or fat activists use in their vernacular (whereas Fatphobia certainly is). Ultimately, Fatphobia is extremely pervasive as an issue and this page is very important to draw attention to it, and the title isn’t facilitating this. SarahLalevee (talk) 21:54, 12 August 2022 (UTC)
 * I think we all agree that the name as it stands if not good. But fatphobia redirects to this page, so I don't know that the difference in title is actually affecting visibility in any way. It is also not necessary for the usage in terms here to match the terms preferred by activists. ParticipantObserver (talk) 09:25, 14 August 2022 (UTC)
 * And some fat activists are opposed to the term fatphobia because, among other things, the term suggests mental illness or an emotional response rather than willful discrimination. ParticipantObserver (talk) 10:46, 19 August 2022 (UTC)
 * I agree with SarahLalevee: I don't think the title 'Social stigma of obesity' is accurate, and neither is 'Weightism'. I'm not too sure about 'fatphobia' either, but it is a very generally used term. We all know this particular use of the term 'phobia' does not refer to the psychiatric use of the term, but to hate, although this type of hate is interlaced with some sort of fear. So, yeah, I think 'fatphobia' would be the best alternative. Laurier (talk) 15:31, 22 August 2022 (UTC)
 * 'Fatphobia' is simply not appropriate in this instance. Like homophobia, the term fatphobia refers to negative attitudes and feelings--not to biased or discriminatory behaviors. These things are not synonymous. This article is primarily about the behaviors, not about the feelings associated with those behaviors (although there is some limited discussion of the feelings, mostly in the context of implicit biases). ParticipantObserver (talk) 16:21, 22 August 2022 (UTC)
 * 'Fat shaming' at least refers to the behaviors, though that term is problematic for reasons detailed by myself and others in the above comments in this section. ParticipantObserver (talk) 16:24, 22 August 2022 (UTC)


 * "not a word fat liberationists or fat activists use... this page is very important to draw attention to it". NPOV! --Eldomtom2 (talk) 13:00, 23 August 2022 (UTC)
 * I'm not too fond of "weightism" since it seems like an unnecessary neologism, although it seems like an accurate description of the topic. The current title seems adequately descriptive and neutral. I'm not fond of "fatphobia" for the same reason and also because "phobia" implies fear, and this phenomenon does not involve fear. "Anti-fat bias" seems OK to me except for being somewhat less formal in tone than the current title. —&#8288;&#8202;&#8288;BarrelProof (talk) 16:48, 23 August 2022 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
 * Oppose: The Article's current name is a much more broad and fitting name and for the subject.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.219.83.13 (talk) 04:42, 30 August 2022 (UTC)

Merge proposal
There were already tags, but I propose that Obesity social stigma in television be merged into this. Note that I already merged, but I undid so that we could have a discusion NW1223 (Howl at me / My hunts) 02:08, 31 January 2022 (UTC)
 * I agree with the merge! Laurier (talk) 08:52, 2 February 2022 (UTC)


 * Merge Not large or notable enough for its own article.★Trekker (talk) 18:06, 17 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Anti-fat bias in television is quite notable. There are many, many articles/books/etc that discuss it. ParticipantObserver (talk) 11:16, 19 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Oppose, given that the television article is quite well-referenced for a short article, and works as a stand-alone page, linked from Social stigma of obesity with a see also. Klbrain (talk) 04:01, 14 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Closing, given the uncontested objections, having waited 6 months from the first such objection. Klbrain (talk) 15:08, 23 December 2022 (UTC)