Talk:Socialist Party of Florida/Archive 1

Platform
Assuming it isn't a copyvio, the SPoF's platform probably doesn't belong in the article, and should be moved to Wikisource.

Since I wrote parts of it and it is not copyrighted you should have no worries. Also being an officer of the SPF placed it for all to read. (Comraderedoctober 21:57, 25 March 2006 (UTC))

Date
I doubt the party was formed in 1910 after it was taken over by Schactmanites, since they wouldn't exist for another 30 years.

The SPF is the grandchild so to speak of the orginial Soc. title which here started more around 1908. The sad thing is most of history when it comes to socialism is attacked and deleted. Even my profile was deleted and I am an officer of the SPF trying to record our history here even as it evolves. When I am gone there will be no one here with the records in hand to place the truth for history. I am soon to fix this even without wikipedia's help since the socialist have continued to be not only attacked by the outside political parties but from in fighting tendencies. (Comraderedoctober 21:57, 25 March 2006 (UTC))


 * Removed "using the "state" defining section of the 1997 Constitution of Socialist Party USA" as irrelevant and changed "reactivated" to "refounded" because the SPF wasn't inactive before then, it was non-existent. Chegitz guevara 15:07, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

NPOV?
Is this an article about the Socialist Party of Florida, or an article by the Socialist Party of Florida? I'm not so sure the platform should be in here; first, it makes this article nothing more than an electoral pamphlet, and second, there's really nothing else in the article. --Deville (Talk) 02:52, 20 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Absolutely. Not much in this article is Wikipedia-quality except the infobox and introductory section (which needs to be rephrased). The platform is only of passing interest; we want to know about the history and the current situation of the party in Florida, not what it says it would do in the unlikely event that it controlled the legislature and governor's mansion. (By the way, I'm a Socialist Party supporter!...) QuartierLatin1968 [[Image:Red flag waving transparent.png|20px|El bien mas preciado es la libertad]] 22:22, 21 March 2006 (UTC)


 * I happen to be a noob when coming here. I do plan over the summer to get more involved as time allows. I started a project to record all I can on the Socialist Party USA or at least the SPF. A personal friend of mine is and author who has written many history books so with some input and a direction I will place what I can here. I leave it up to comrades to make the writing up to specs and feel free to ask questions. (Comraderedoctober 10:33, 26 March 2006 (UTC))

Wikipedia is not a crystal ball
The 2010 election is way too far off in the future to start listing candidates for it. There's not really a clear line for deciding when listing such candidates becomes acceptable, but I think waiting until they start collecting ballot-access petition signatures is reasonable. -David Schaich Talk/Cont 14:22, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

Socialist Party of Florida is NOT Affiliated with the "Socialist Party of America"
The Socialist Party of Florida has not voted to affiliate with the newly formed "Socialist Party of America" and remains the Florida affiliate of the Socialist Party USA One of the Socialist Party of Florida's officers who happens to control its website has undemocratically decided to modify the website to list it as a "Socialist Party of America" affiliate and then edited this Wikipedia entry to reflect this unauthorized change to the party's national affiliation. All of the changes recently made to this entry regarding its affiliation with the "Socialist Party of America" should be removed. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 66.93.4.113 (talk) 04:21, 27 February 2007 (UTC).

I have removed the text stating that the SPF has moved to form the SPA, as well as text listing the SPF as an affiliate of the SPA. This simply is not true. One person in the SPF has chosen to change its affiliation without the authority to do so. Chegitz guevara 13:54, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

Party Officers Removed
The National Committee of the Socialist Party of the United States voted to temporarily suspend the charter of the Socialist Party of Florida due to the lack of elected officers in Florida. The SPF has been directed to hold a convention and elect new officers. I have therefore removed the names of the officers from the article. Chegitz guevara 20:25, 27 March 2007 (UTC)


 * This is a blatant attempt by the National Committee of the Socialist Party USA to overthrow the democratic process within the State of Florida.

—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Comraderedoctober (talk • contribs) 07:03, 5 April 2007 (UTC).


 * The collapse of democratic process within the SPF was what led to the NC to vote to temporarily suspend the charter. Chegitz guevara 21:42, 5 April 2007 (UTC)


 * The main point of contention is with personal information that under Florida State Law, Title IX, 103.091,(3) reads, "The state executive committee of each political party shall file with the Department of State the names and addresses of its chair, vice chair, secretary, treasurer, and members and shall file a copy of its constitution, bylaws, and rules and regulations with the Department of State. Each county executive committee shall file with the state executive committee and with the supervisor of elections the names and addresses of its officers and members."


 * The information is public knowledge and is posted on or connected to all 67 counties within the State of Florida and the Florida Division of Elections websites. In order to keep Wikipedia, Socialist Party of Florida records truthful and open the page must mirror the information that is required by law.

—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Comraderedoctober (talk • contribs) 07:03, 5 April 2007 (UTC).

Socialist Party of Florida

 * - Per the paperwork filed with the State of Florida and as listed on the Florida Division of Elections website the SPF has no affiliate on the national level. // 74.239.34.219 08:10, 30 March 2007 (UTC)


 * The link put into the article to document this does not list any affiliates for any political parties in Florida. Either the information there is unreliable, or the Democratic and Republican (etc.) Parties in Florida are all independent of the corresponding national organizations -- I am inclined to believe the former, especially because the Socialist Party of Florida's Web site describes the party as "a state affiliate of the Socialist Party USA".  Similarly, the SP's magazine lists both Florida and Jacksonville as affiliates.  Until evidence is presented to the contrary, this article should do the same. -David Schaich Talk/Cont 19:36, 31 March 2007 (UTC)


 * The SPF is defined by the constitution of the Socialist Party of Florida and not by paperwork filed with the state for ballot status purposes. The preamble of the SPF Constitution clearly states the SPF is an affiliate of the SP-USA. This can only be changed by a convention or mail-in referendum of the members of the SPF. Chegitz guevara 18:00, 2 April 2007 (UTC)


 * The only Socialist Party of Florida Constitution (1998) was filed, as required by law | Florida State Chapters 97-106, on March 16, 1998 and was never amended and has never list any affiliate as Florida is an "Open Ballot" state and under the | Sunshine Law Florida State Chapters 119 and 286 requires all political and like groups to do all business in public for all to see. The 2004 constitution by law cannot stand as it was never filed legally to amend the constitution when the vote within the state took place. A copy will soon be posted for all to read. I am to understand that the 1998 constitution never affiliated the SP-USA and to this day that is why the state does not post it on the | Florida Division of Elections website.


 * You understand incorrectly, not unsurprisingly. The Article I of the 1998 Constitution of the SPF reads exactly the same as the 2004 constitution. Both state that the SPF is an affiliate of the SP-USA.Chegitz guevara 14:37, 4 April 2007 (UTC)


 * The Socialist Party USA no longer list Florida as an affiliate. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Comraderedoctober (talk • contribs) 20:36, 2 April 2007 (UTC).


 * The link you provide currently says (replacing lines with hyphens) "FLORIDA -- State Affiliate -- Socialist Party of Florida". That's a funny way not to list Florida as an affiliate.  -David Schaich Talk/Cont 01:13, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

Purpose of Party Removed
Because it contains a link to my home address. I am going to ask Wikipedia to lock this article, since Atlee Yarrow, aka Comraderedoctober, cannot seem to stop himself from posting my address here. Chegitz guevara 15:08, 3 April 2007 (UTC) -
 * Florida State Law, Title IX, 103.091,(3) Names and addresses required by state law. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Comraderedoctober (talk • contribs) 07:08, 5 April 2007 (UTC)


 * You have been repeatedly informed that the fact that the state requires that information is no excuse for your making it available widely. Even the state has said that. Chegitz guevara 14:50, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

Removed commentary about status of website
The commentary added by Comraderedoctober about the "questionable" nature of the website was removed as irrelevant. Generally speaking, constitutions do not mention websites. Comraderedoctober would be hard pressed to find any U.S. government websites listed in the U.S. Constitution. The website was established by officers of the SPF. That makes it official. Chegitz guevara 14:48, 4 April 2007 (UTC) -
 * This raises the question as to why the current website reads, "The Official Web site of the Socialist Party USA Affiliate, the Socialist Party of Florida" across its top as of April 5, 2007. It also raises the questions as to why the only elected State Officer has been banned from a website and why the website is not registered in the State of Florida. Again, I make the claim this is a blatant attempt to overthrow the democratic process by the National Committee of the Socialist Party USA. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Comraderedoctober (talk • contribs) 07:08, 5 April 2007  (UTC)


 * It does not raise any questions, Comraderedoctober. The website is the official website of the SPF. The SPF is an affiliate of the SP-USA. As far as your banning from the website goes, your refusal to conduct yourself in a comradely fashion and stop abusing the party and other comrades is what led to your banning. This is what has led to your banning from the Floridian Socialists MySpace group. It has led to a severe warning from the Socialism MySpace group. Finally, as of the passage by the NC of the resolution temporarily suspending the charter, you are no longer an officer of the SPF. We have no officers at this time. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Chegitz guevara (talk • contribs) 16:07, 5 April 2007 (UTC).

Status of Constitution
It appears we are both wrong to a point, your truth; my truth; and somewhere in the middle there is the truth Chegitz guevara as I have now in hand what is legal and binding on file with the State of Florida. What I was lead to believe on Saturday, June 12, 2004 as being an adjustment in the SPF Constitution when voting took place to amend the 1998 constitution was presented wrong according to the state file on the SPF record. "Yes," the SPF is listed as an affiliate of the SP-USA as noted with the state. "No," there never was a state constitution ever filed except in part whereas Mr. M. Fredrick Holt, Secretary, March 16, 1998 filed the SP-USA Constitution (1997), from the National Convention in Milwaukee, WI. and noted in side bar "state" to Article XII - XVII. Addendum: A hand written note was enclosed and signed which reinforced the above context and is dated March 6, 1998. While this means we can settle this area once and for all, it also means that the 2004 cannot stand as it was never filed duly with the state. When the state convention is announced and the new constitution is voted into affect by a quorum it will have to filed in a timely manner with the state and posted. Make sure the state sends back a timed stamped copy for Officers records so this does not happen again, please. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Comraderedoctober (talk • contribs) 21:44, 5 April 2007 (UTC)


 * You wrote a whole paragraph to admit this whole time you were making things up? Chegitz guevara 00:12, 6 April 2007 (UTC)


 * "No," I was working on faulty information at the time, given both by the Former State Chair Steve Sears with his failure to amend the constitution in 2004 legally with the state and two phone conversations while requesting information from the state by persons not knowing the internal workings of the SP itself. This is why I requested the full documentation to make sure the history was complete. The server here was busy today and I could not upload the scanned documents. I will try to make sure they are available ASAP for all in the future to keep these matters clear of future infighting. When there is truth I have no problem making sure it is fully known even if it is not what I wanted or agree with. To hold it back would be anti-socialist behavior in nature. Autonomy does not circumvent the end goal, but gives greater latitude to its membership for say as Florida has the largest socialist voting block; greater than the rest of the USA combined in fact of record. Comraderedoctober 06:43, 6 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Technically, the job of filing documents with the state would be the job of a secretary, not a chair. The Job of a chair is to call meetings and act as a moderator in committee discussions as well as be the public face of the organization. Of course, the SPF constitution doesn't define the responsibilities of individual officers, so anyone and everyone had the responsibility to file those documents.


 * Just so you know, I will be filing the 2004 constitution with the state tonight. Also, while state law requires that all changed documents be filed within 5 days of any changes, there is no penalty for failing to do so. Chegitz guevara 15:08, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

2006 Candidate for Governor
Using Comraderedoctober's measure of what makes something official or not, should we remove the listing for the 2006 candidate for governor, as Atlee Yarrow was not on the ballot, even as a possible write in candidate? I'm inclined to leave it, but as Comraderedoctober's a stickler for what the capitalist state thinks is legitimate and proper paperwork and all, we should remove it. I'll wait until others weigh in though. Chegitz guevara 15:12, 6 April 2007 (UTC)


 * I remember seeing a legitimate campaign site at yarrowgovernor.org at the time, so even if he didn't get on the ballot, I'd be inclined to keep the listing in the article, so long as the SPFL did indeed endorse and support his candidacy. -David Schaich Talk/Cont 19:30, 6 April 2007 (UTC)


 * At the present time the SP-USA and SP-FL in conjunction with the National Committee are doing their best to rewrite or omit history and Atlee Yarrow is on top of the list to erase. Comraderedoctober 03:11, 7 April 2007 (UTC)


 * You established the pattern. You are the one who continues to claim that only what is filed with the state is legitimate. Since you were not filed with the state as our gubernatorial candidate, by your own precedent and standards, you should not be listed. Or do your principles only apply when it is in your interests? If you stand by your actions, then you should remove that information. 67.191.87.181 15:42, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

As matter of fact, Atlee Yarrow was filed with the State of Florida, Florida Division of Elections as a candidate under the SPF banner and platform. All documents can be found with the state and are legally filed. Even the campaign finance records where the former State Chair Steve Sears donated to the election can be had for the price of a few copies from public information. The fact that the SP-USA wants to hide its failure to help comrades from the south is more than telling as 25% of the SP-USA membership have now filed a petition to dissolve the National Committee and to drop the National Secretary in conjunction to the loss of 1/3 of its membership over the last three years.

Comraderedoctober 06:43, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

Party Address Is Incorrect
The address stated as being in Ft. Lauderdale is not correct with the State of Florida records or website.

Comraderedoctober 08:41, 23 April 2007 (UTC)