Talk:Socialist Party of Florida/Archive 2

Platform
Assuming it isn't a copyvio, the SPoF's platform probably doesn't belong in the article, and should be moved to Wikisource.

Since I wrote parts of it and it is not copyrighted you should have no worries. Also being an officer of the SPF placed it for all to read. (Comraderedoctober 21:57, 25 March 2006 (UTC))

Date
I doubt the party was formed in 1910 after it was taken over by Schactmanites, since they wouldn't exist for another 30 years.

The SPF is the grandchild so to speak of the orginial Soc. title which here started more around 1908. The sad thing is most of history when it comes to socialism is attacked and deleted. Even my profile was deleted and I am an officer of the SPF trying to record our history here even as it evolves. When I am gone there will be no one here with the records in hand to place the truth for history. I am soon to fix this even without wikipedia's help since the socialist have continued to be not only attacked by the outside political parties but from in fighting tendencies. (Comraderedoctober 21:57, 25 March 2006 (UTC))


 * Removed "using the "state" defining section of the 1997 Constitution of Socialist Party USA" as irrelevant and changed "reactivated" to "refounded" because the SPF wasn't inactive before then, it was non-existent. Chegitz guevara 15:07, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

NPOV?
Is this an article about the Socialist Party of Florida, or an article by the Socialist Party of Florida? I'm not so sure the platform should be in here; first, it makes this article nothing more than an electoral pamphlet, and second, there's really nothing else in the article. --Deville (Talk) 02:52, 20 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Absolutely. Not much in this article is Wikipedia-quality except the infobox and introductory section (which needs to be rephrased). The platform is only of passing interest; we want to know about the history and the current situation of the party in Florida, not what it says it would do in the unlikely event that it controlled the legislature and governor's mansion. (By the way, I'm a Socialist Party supporter!...) QuartierLatin1968 [[Image:Red flag waving transparent.png|20px|El bien mas preciado es la libertad]] 22:22, 21 March 2006 (UTC)


 * I happen to be a noob when coming here. I do plan over the summer to get more involved as time allows. I started a project to record all I can on the Socialist Party USA or at least the SPF. A personal friend of mine is and author who has written many history books so with some input and a direction I will place what I can here. I leave it up to comrades to make the writing up to specs and feel free to ask questions. (Comraderedoctober 10:33, 26 March 2006 (UTC))

Wikipedia is not a crystal ball
The 2010 election is way too far off in the future to start listing candidates for it. There's not really a clear line for deciding when listing such candidates becomes acceptable, but I think waiting until they start collecting ballot-access petition signatures is reasonable. -David Schaich Talk/Cont 14:22, 7 November 2006 (UTC)


 * In Florida a candidate can be listed for whatever election they file for and in fact several candidates are already listed for 2010. It does not require signatures to file paperwork with the state listing one's campaign. The direct route is to simply pay the ballot fee outright when the cost figure is made and deadline posted and met.Comraderedoctober 04:49, 30 July 2007 (UTC)


 * In any event, no candidate for governor for 2010 has been listed by the Socialist Party of Florida. Chegitz guevara 17:38, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

Socialist Party of Florida is NOT Affiliated with the "Socialist Party of America"
The Socialist Party of Florida has not voted to affiliate with the newly formed "Socialist Party of America" and remains the Florida affiliate of the Socialist Party USA One of the Socialist Party of Florida's officers who happens to control its website has undemocratically decided to modify the website to list it as a "Socialist Party of America" affiliate and then edited this Wikipedia entry to reflect this unauthorized change to the party's national affiliation. All of the changes recently made to this entry regarding its affiliation with the "Socialist Party of America" should be removed. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 66.93.4.113 (talk) 04:21, 27 February 2007 (UTC).

I have removed the text stating that the SPF has moved to form the SPA, as well as text listing the SPF as an affiliate of the SPA. This simply is not true. One person in the SPF has chosen to change its affiliation without the authority to do so. Chegitz guevara 13:54, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

Party Officers Removed
The National Committee of the Socialist Party of the United States voted to temporarily suspend the charter of the Socialist Party of Florida due to the lack of elected officers in Florida. The SPF has been directed to hold a convention and elect new officers. I have therefore removed the names of the officers from the article. Chegitz guevara 20:25, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

Party Officers Restored
On Sat., June 9, a special convention was held in Tampa. All four officers now listed were elected unanimously. Also, the title of Vice-Chair was incorrectly listed as Co-Chair. That has been fixed. Chegitz guevara 06:45, 17 June 2007 (UTC)


 * The section about the officer election and document showing the suspension of the party have been removed as moot. Chegitz guevara 06:48, 17 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Adam Padgett resigned as Chair. Will Kremmel was elected Chair on Aug 4 at the special Constitutional Convention. The position of Vice-Chair is currently open.Chegitz guevara 16:49, 6 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Added new Vice-Chair, Jim Sanders Chegitz guevara —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.122.160.254 (talk) 15:57, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

Socialist Party of Florida

 * - Per the paperwork filed with the State of Florida and as listed on the Florida Division of Elections website the SPF has no affiliate on the national level. // 74.239.34.219 08:10, 30 March 2007 (UTC)


 * The link put into the article to document this does not list any affiliates for any political parties in Florida. Either the information there is unreliable, or the Democratic and Republican (etc.) Parties in Florida are all independent of the corresponding national organizations -- I am inclined to believe the former, especially because the Socialist Party of Florida's Web site describes the party as "a state affiliate of the Socialist Party USA".  Similarly, the SP's magazine lists both Florida and Jacksonville as affiliates.  Until evidence is presented to the contrary, this article should do the same. -David Schaich Talk/Cont 19:36, 31 March 2007 (UTC)


 * The SPF is defined by the constitution of the Socialist Party of Florida and not by paperwork filed with the state for ballot status purposes. The preamble of the SPF Constitution clearly states the SPF is an affiliate of the SP-USA. This can only be changed by a convention or mail-in referendum of the members of the SPF. Chegitz guevara 18:00, 2 April 2007 (UTC)


 * The only Socialist Party of Florida Constitution (1998) was filed, as required by law | Florida State Chapters 97-106, on March 16, 1998 and was never amended and has never list any affiliate as Florida is an "Open Ballot" state and under the | Sunshine Law Florida State Chapters 119 and 286 requires all political and like groups to do all business in public for all to see. The 2004 constitution by law cannot stand as it was never filed legally to amend the constitution when the vote within the state took place. A copy will soon be posted for all to read. I am to understand that the 1998 constitution never affiliated the SP-USA and to this day that is why the state does not post it on the | Florida Division of Elections website.


 * You understand incorrectly, not unsurprisingly. The Article I of the 1998 Constitution of the SPF reads exactly the same as the 2004 constitution. Both state that the SPF is an affiliate of the SP-USA.Chegitz guevara 14:37, 4 April 2007 (UTC)


 * The Socialist Party USA no longer list Florida as an affiliate. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Comraderedoctober (talk • contribs) 20:36, 2 April 2007 (UTC).


 * The link you provide currently says (replacing lines with hyphens) "FLORIDA -- State Affiliate -- Socialist Party of Florida". That's a funny way not to list Florida as an affiliate.  -David Schaich Talk/Cont 01:13, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

Purpose of Party Removed
Because it contains a link to my home address. I am going to ask Wikipedia to lock this article, since Atlee Yarrow, aka Comraderedoctober, cannot seem to stop himself from posting my address here. Chegitz guevara 15:08, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

Removed commentary about status of website
The commentary added by Comraderedoctober about the "questionable" nature of the website was removed as irrelevant. Generally speaking, constitutions do not mention websites. Comraderedoctober would be hard pressed to find any U.S. government websites listed in the U.S. Constitution. The website was established by officers of the SPF. That makes it official. Chegitz guevara 14:48, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

Status of Constitution
It appears we are both wrong to a point, your truth; my truth; and somewhere in the middle there is the truth Chegitz guevara as I have now in hand what is legal and binding on file with the State of Florida. What I was lead to believe on Saturday, June 12, 2004 as being an adjustment in the SPF Constitution when voting took place to amend the 1998 constitution was presented wrong according to the state file on the SPF record. "Yes," the SPF is listed as an affiliate of the SP-USA as noted with the state. "No," there never was a state constitution ever filed except in part whereas Mr. M. Fredrick Holt, Secretary, March 16, 1998 filed the SP-USA Constitution (1997), from the National Convention in Milwaukee, WI. and noted in side bar "state" to Article XII - XVII. Addendum: A hand written note was enclosed and signed which reinforced the above context and is dated March 6, 1998. While this means we can settle this area once and for all, it also means that the 2004 cannot stand as it was never filed duly with the state. When the state convention is announced and the new constitution is voted into affect by a quorum it will have to filed in a timely manner with the state and posted. Make sure the state sends back a timed stamped copy for Officers records so this does not happen again, please. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Comraderedoctober (talk • contribs) 21:44, 5 April 2007 (UTC)


 * You wrote a whole paragraph to admit this whole time you were making things up? Chegitz guevara 00:12, 6 April 2007 (UTC)


 * "No," I was working on faulty information at the time, given both by the Former State Chair Steve Sears with his failure to amend the constitution in 2004 legally with the state and two phone conversations while requesting information from the state by persons not knowing the internal workings of the SP itself. This is why I requested the full documentation to make sure the history was complete. The server here was busy today and I could not upload the scanned documents. I will try to make sure they are available ASAP for all in the future to keep these matters clear of future infighting. When there is truth I have no problem making sure it is fully known even if it is not what I wanted or agree with. To hold it back would be anti-socialist behavior in nature. Autonomy does not circumvent the end goal, but gives greater latitude to its membership for say as Florida has the largest socialist voting block; greater than the rest of the USA combined in fact of record. Comraderedoctober 06:43, 6 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Technically, the job of filing documents with the state would be the job of a secretary, not a chair. The Job of a chair is to call meetings and act as a moderator in committee discussions as well as be the public face of the organization. Of course, the SPF constitution doesn't define the responsibilities of individual officers, so anyone and everyone had the responsibility to file those documents.


 * Just so you know, I will be filing the 2004 constitution with the state tonight. Also, while state law requires that all changed documents be filed within 5 days of any changes, there is no penalty for failing to do so. Chegitz guevara 15:08, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

2006 Candidate for Governor
Using Comraderedoctober's measure of what makes something official or not, should we remove the listing for the 2006 candidate for governor, as Atlee Yarrow was not on the ballot, even as a possible write in candidate? I'm inclined to leave it, but as Comraderedoctober's a stickler for what the capitalist state thinks is legitimate and proper paperwork and all, we should remove it. I'll wait until others weigh in though. Chegitz guevara 15:12, 6 April 2007 (UTC)


 * I remember seeing a legitimate campaign site at yarrowgovernor.org at the time, so even if he didn't get on the ballot, I'd be inclined to keep the listing in the article, so long as the SPFL did indeed endorse and support his candidacy. -David Schaich Talk/Cont 19:30, 6 April 2007 (UTC)


 * At the present time the SP-USA and SP-FL in conjunction with the National Committee are doing their best to rewrite or omit history and Atlee Yarrow is on top of the list to erase. Comraderedoctober 03:11, 7 April 2007 (UTC)


 * You established the pattern. You are the one who continues to claim that only what is filed with the state is legitimate. Since you were not filed with the state as our gubernatorial candidate, by your own precedent and standards, you should not be listed. Or do your principles only apply when it is in your interests? If you stand by your actions, then you should remove that information. 67.191.87.181 15:42, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

As matter of fact, Atlee Yarrow was filed with the State of Florida, Florida Division of Elections as a candidate under the SPF banner and platform. All documents can be found with the state and are legally filed. Even the campaign finance records where the former State Chair Steve Sears donated to the election can be had for the price of a few copies from public information. The fact that the SP-USA wants to hide its failure to help comrades from the south is more than telling as 25% of the SP-USA membership have now filed a petition to dissolve the National Committee and to drop the National Secretary in conjunction to the loss of 1/3 of its membership over the last three years.

Comraderedoctober 06:43, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

Party Address Is Incorrect
The address stated as being in Ft. Lauderdale is not correct with the State of Florida records or website. [User:Comraderedoctober|Comraderedoctober]] 08:41, 23 April 2007 (UTC)


 * The SPF website matches what the Wiki entry shows. Chegitz guevara 03:09, 30 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Only since Marc Luzietti and Steve Sears changed it to read as such since the domain is not owned by the SP-USA or SPF but a private person which is common knowledge and does not reflect official State of Florida record.

Comraderedoctober 16:29, 9 May 2007 (UTC)


 * The State of Florida has updated its records to reflect the new address of the SPFL. Chegitz guevara 17:30, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

Discussion Restored
Comraderedoctober deleted the discussion page, so I restored it from the archive. Chegitz guevara 03:09, 30 April 2007 (UTC)


 * I had actually created that archive because it had been deleted. -David Schaich Talk/Cont 12:54, 30 April 2007 (UTC)


 * I figured and thank you for doing so. I expect more crap like this from Atlee until he is expelled. I think I shall dance when that happens. Chegitz guevara 18:22, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

Actually I don't know how that happened, but the page was easy enough to restore. It does not stand to reason that I would delete willfully something that can be restored and is well known in the Leftist community. Comraderedoctober 16:32, 9 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Of course it stands to reason that you'd do such a thing. After all, you cleared nearly all your posts on the SPF website. You also sent a secret email to the state officer in charge of party registration containing information that you knew could cost the party its ballot status. After that, there really isn't anything I'd put past you. Chegitz guevara 18:43, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

Per the warning at the top of the page, I have removed OT discussion from this page. Chegitz guevara 17:35, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

Added Political Activity Section
I added a section on the current political activity of the party, cuz I thought the article was pretty empty, and it explains what the party does. I also added in where the party was active. Chegitz guevara 13:36, 5 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Changed section to reflect new local. Chegitz (talk) 19:14, 17 February 2009 (UTC)

Rewrote Party History
I made the section more accurate and removed unnecessary discussion of the history of the Socialist Party of America and Socialist Party of the United States Chegitz guevara 13:37, 5 October 2007 (UTC)


 * I'm reading a book called Subterranean Fire, by Sharon Smith (one of the leaders of the American International Socialist Organization). It has some interesting stuff about the early Socialist Party of America. For example, leaders and sections of the SPA in the South were segregationist and racist. Florida at the turn of the previous century was solidly Dixie, so I wouldn't be at all surprised to find out that they supported white supremacy. I'll see what I can find. Chegitz guevara 01:32, 16 October 2007 (UTC)


 * It occurs to me that as the party ran candidates as early as 1904, the date listed as being the founding date may be wrong. . . . http://www.marxists.org/history/usa/eam/spa/spa-conv08delegates.html lists a delegate (A.J. Pettigrew) representing Florida at the 1908 Convention of the Socialist Party of America. I will edit the article. Chegitz guevara 16:07, 16 October 2007 (UTC)


 * http://www.marxists.org/history/usa/parties/spusa/1903/0718-spa-statesecreports.pdf There's a report printed in Appeal to Reason from various states. The founding of the party in Florida is listed. Chegitz guevara 16:11, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

Rewrote Intro
I rewrote the intro to make it more accurate to reflect the fact that the Socialist Party of Florida is not a separate party from the Socialist Party of the United States of America, but was the expression of the SP USA in Florida. Chegitz guevara 13:39, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

Removed Direct Action Tendency Link
I removed the "external link" to the Direct Action Tendency, because it was neither an external link nor did it have a destination that provided any information on the DAT. Chegitz guevara 14:41, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

Rewrote External Links
I reordered the links to a more logical order, added links for the locals websites, and removed stuff that weren't links. I also removed the links to the various SPUSA tendencies, as none are active in the SPFL, and that's more information about the national party than the state party. Chegitz guevara 14:55, 15 October 2007 (UTC)


 * The Socialist Party of Florida has no official website. Chegitz (talk) 22:47, 22 January 2010 (UTC)


 * Reiterating, the Socialist Party of Florida has no website. There is a website which illegally uses the name of the Socialist Party of Florida, but it has nothing to do with the Party. Chegitz (talk) 13:34, 12 February 2010 (UTC)


 * http://www.myspace.com/spflorida is the only officially recognized web presence the SPFL has, and it hasn't been updated in over a year. Chegitz (talk) 15:57, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

Rewrote Candidates Section
I reordered some of the candidates, added new elections going back to 1904 and up to 1920. I also updated the links. We still need state legislative results. The 1908 article from the New York Times, states that one or two (I don't remember which) Socialists were elected to the legislature. I'd like to add ranking also, because it looks like in some races, the Socialists came in 2nd before the Republicans. Chegitz guevara 22:02, 15 October 2007 (UTC)


 * You might want to see if any library in your area has a copy of Party Affiliations in the State Legislatures: A Year by Year Summary, 1796-2006 by Michael J. Dubin (ISBN 0786429143). It was published this summer and Richard Winger wrote a glowing review in this month's Ballot Access News.  I'm not sure whether or not Dubin lists information on runners-up in elections, but his references might be useful when taking up that task. -David Schaich Talk/Cont 23:17, 15 October 2007 (UTC)


 * I think I want to reorder the U.S. Representative section by year, rather than by district. Chegitz guevara 01:36, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

I'm going to remove Atlee Yarrow's 2006 Campaign for governor, as it wasn't a legitimate campaign. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.149.4.254 (talk • contribs) 17:09, 30 April 2008 -- I lost the password to my old account. I made the previous comment. Chegitz (talk) 17:28, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Carnation.gif
Image:Carnation.gif is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 19:14, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

Added new Party logo Chegitz (talk) 22:04, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

Wikipedia deleted the carnation logo, even though permission had been granted. I am looking for another version of the carnation to upload.Chegitz (talk) 23:42, 26 December 2009 (UTC)

One of the Wikipedia administrators apparently doesn't want the logos of the SPFL displayed, as they have now all been removed. Chegitz (talk) 19:07, 28 December 2009 (UTC)

Undoing Massive Jacksonville Vandalism
The Jacksonville poster did a bit of vandalism to the page. I rolled it back to the last known good edit.

Removed link to fake SPFL web site. Chegitz (talk) 21:46, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

Removed non-topic discussion. Chegitz (talk) 18:15, 18 December 2009 (UTC)


 * This is not a forum for discussion with the officers of the SPFL. Limit your discussion to actual facts about the SPFL.Chegitz (talk) 22:38, 22 December 2009 (UTC)

Removed more OT "discussion" from the Jacksonville poster. Chegitz (talk) 05:42, 8 January 2010 (UTC)


 * The last changes reverted by Chegitz came from Ronkonkoma, New York at IP 69.117.226.167 and not from Jacksonville, Florida. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.122.31.30 (talk) 11:57, 24 January 2010 (UTC)


 * No, the vandalism came from 4.171.114.70, 204.29.160.143, and 76.122.31.30 which are all Jacksonville, FL. Chegitz (talk) 02:08, 27 January 2010 (UTC)


 * My records give more detailed information on who comes and goes. Weird how I just was shown someone in Chatham, New York was looking between several websites, yet, went against the Florida Division of Elections that clearly shows the State of Florida only recognizes the party Chair as the person held responsible for party goings on.


 * Wikipedia's records are the ones that count, not yours, Atlee. As to what the State of Florida shows or does not show, that's only relevant in your own mind.Chegitz (talk) 14:03, 8 February 2010 (UTC)

Removed yet more OT discussion by Atlee. Chegitz (talk) 14:03, 8 February 2010 (UTC)

Removed yet more OT discussion. Personal attacks are against Wiki Policy. Chegitz (talk) 13:36, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

Party Officers
Restored information on Party leaders and Party offices.
 * You have to use the Infobox_American_State_Political_Party template, that is a must according to WP procedures. So do not revert. --TIAYN (talk) 11:50, 9 February 2010 (UTC)


 * Can you please point to the rule that specifies which Infobox must be used? Chegitz (talk) 16:48, 9 February 2010 (UTC)
 * The question is, why should the Socialist Party of Florida be the only state party to not use the regular WP infobox? I'll give you the link the later, i've forgotten the name of the procedure. --TIAYN (talk) 17:46, 9 February 2010 (UTC)


 * No, the question for me is, is any change justified. How do I know you aren't Atlee Yarrow doing more vandalism to the page, unless you can show the specific rule justifying the change. If it actually is the rule for Wikipedia, then by all means, go ahead. All I'm trying to do is stop people from vandalizing the page.Chegitz (talk) 20:56, 9 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Trust me, i'm not a vandal, i created the Brian Moore presidential campaign, 2008 article and i'm currently working on the Socialist Party USA to get it to GA-status. So don't worry, i'm no vandal. See Manual of Style (infoboxes). --TIAYN (talk) 20:59, 9 February 2010 (UTC)

The Chair, Brian Moore, was suspended, Feb 9, 2010. He has been removed from the infobox.Chegitz (talk) 04:29, 10 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Question, why was he suspended? --TIAYN (talk) 06:29, 10 February 2010 (UTC)
 * There will be a hearing in one month's time. If he's found guilty, he will be removed from office. Parliamentary procedure dictates the suspension of a member while under investigation. If he is found guilty, the reasons will be revealed at that time. Chegitz (talk) 15:10, 10 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Okay, thanks for your reply.--TIAYN (talk) 21:23, 11 February 2010 (UTC)
 * In looking over what there is to find, there is no process for having a trial, given authority, or contractual means. A PTY in FL is a private club ejecting anyone without cause. From the looks of it this has already transpired. This is a two edged sword as many voters are more than likely not members of the PTY and seeing this will not endear socialists to the PTY. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 204.29.160.141 (talk) 15:22, 23 February 2010 (UTC)
 * And a PTY is what? --TIAYN (talk) 18:04, 23 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Party Executive Committee PTY