Talk:Socialist patriotism

Merger proposal
I propose to merge the articles Chinese socialist patriotism, German socialist patriotism, Ethiopian socialist patriotism, and Vietnamese socialist patriotism into this article. These terms have not been used in the literature, at least not in the sources that are meant to support their contents. I assume that the user who has started these articles has merely invented these terms by combining the fact that "socialist patriotism" has been represented in these countries. However, it is undue synthesis (and therefore original research) to conclude from the fact that "socialist patriotism" has been represented in China/East Germany/Ethiopia/Vietnam to the use and definition of the terms "(Nationality)+socialist patriotism", which is not supported by any sources. What I propose is to merge these articles into subsections of this article which can describe the respective variants/variations of "socialist patriotism" country by country. --RJFF (talk) 02:43, 29 February 2012 (UTC)
 * I may agree with this, but I suggest that more time be given before action is taken, I am studying these individual examples. For now material discussed in those articles could be summarized and put in short form into the socialist patriotism article. Soviet socialist patriotism has been considered important by multiple WikiProjects, and I am thinking of asking for a re-evaluation of the Vietnamese and Yugoslav examples because patriotism has been explicitly emphasized by these three governments - Ho Chi Minh admitted that patriotism was the main attraction point for supporters of his movement, and Tito's concept of Brotherhood and Unity was an important concept in Yugoslavia - and appraised as having helped (at least temporarily) heal old wounds of the Second World War.--R-41 (talk) 03:01, 29 February 2012 (UTC)
 * I have not objected to Soviet socialist patriotism and Yugoslav socialist patriotism, because I can see that these terms are actually used in the respective literature. But you please have to understand that it is not acceptable to just make up the other national variants by analogy, because it looks nice to have a seperate article for every country where "socialist patriotism" has been promoted. The biggest problem is with "German socialist patriotism", because in East Germany the patriotism imposed by the communists was between the poles of "All-German patriotism" and "East German patriotism", therefore an invented term like "German socialist patriotism" (which has only been represented in East Germany) is very problematic, as you will surely understand. I am glad that you are receptive to a merger solution. Kind regards --RJFF (talk) 03:10, 29 February 2012 (UTC)
 * PS: Soviet and Yugoslav "socialist patriotism" have the common feature of promoting patriotism of a multinational state, therefore both forms are special, as there has been no "traditional" Soviet nationalism that would be comparable to traditional nationalism in "normal" nation states. --RJFF (talk) 03:16, 29 February 2012 (UTC)


 * Support merger. Very dubious stuff in fact. The concept may be real but it never acquired an official position in line with Communism / Marxism-Leninism in the communist world.Estlandia (dialogue) 08:52, 29 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Socialist patriotism was promoted as an official policy position by almost every major Marxist-Leninist party, it saw it as supporting the development of socialism in a single country by developing patriotic pride in a socialist country's achievements, while also being compatible with proletarian internationalism. If you don't believe me, look at the multiple references I provided on the socialist patriotism article and the individual variants of it - they describe it as an official policy of Marxist-Leninist parties and states, or look for yourself at the constitutions and policy papers of multiple Marxist-Leninist parties, it is a common policy and they commonly advocate it directly alongside proletarian internationalism.--R-41 (talk) 02:14, 1 March 2012 (UTC)
 * 'Social progress' was also an official position of 'almost every major Marxist-Leninist party', this doesn't mean we would need to describe this is as a special ideology of those parties besides Communism-Marxist-Leninism. You just found the notion mentioned here and there in the sources, however, nothing hints this was as important as Marxism-Leninism or even proletarian internationalism. The results in Russian for such a concept were rather meager, too. Also, if you compare google books hits for 'proletarian internationalism' / 'socialist patriotism' you'll get over ten times more hits for the former than for the latter.Estlandia (dialogue) 08:46, 1 March 2012 (UTC)
 * That doesn't detract from the point concept of socialist patriotism is directly described in the constitutions of multiple Marxist-Leninist parties and is mentioned in secondary sources, regardless of how popular the term is. The issue here is whether the examples can all be put on the Socialist patriotism article, should all variants have their own article, or should only major examples have their own article. After discussion with RJFF, I support independent articles for major examples - RJFF and I support articles for Soviet socialist patriotism and Yugoslav socialist patriotism, though personally I think that Vietnamese socialist patriotism should also have an independent article - it was a very important policy of the Vietnamese Communists of Ho Chi Minh who emphasized patriotism and anti-colonialism due to the wars with France and the United States in Vietnam.--R-41 (talk) 02:14, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

I can see broad support for my proposal and will therefore perform the merger. --RJFF (talk) 16:42, 9 March 2012 (UTC)