Talk:Softball/Archive 2

pitching circle diameter error
"a skinned circle 8 feet (2.44 meters) in diameter known as the pitching circle " -- the correct diameter is 16 feet (4.88 meters). —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mikegraf1 (talk • contribs) 06:10, 3 February 2009 (UTC)
 * This error has been corrected. 69.119.27.73 (talk) 03:53, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

Talk archives

 * Talk:Softball/Archive1 - talk from 2004

Mental Toughness?
'' Mental Toughness- Softball is different from other sports in that it requires great levels of mental toughness. There is added pressure when one is at bat and while on the field, so a player that is capable to deal with these extra pressures will be successful. ''

As compared to baseball? Football? Seems POV to suggest that softball requires mental toughness at competitive levels while other sports do not. Jpers36 19:50, 21 July 2005 (UTC)

slowpitch vs fastpitch
Might it be worth splitting slowpitch and fastpitch softball into separate articles? "Rover/shortfielder" would then be merged into the slowpitch article. --MarkGallagher 06:19, 26 July 2005 (UTC)
 * I think they should be merged, if that's worth anything. If you think they should be split, the fastpitch softball needs to be improved significantly. 71.225.75.183 (talk) 23:45, 3 June 2009 (UTC)

Images
There seems to be trouble finding non-copyrighted images for this article. If anyone can find any non-copyrighted action shots, that would be great. --D-Day 23:23, 11 October 2005 (UTC)
 * I hope to be able to take some photos in a couple of weeks. If so, they'll be either men's A-grade (night games) or J. Random Women's Games (daytime).  D'yer reckon you could hang on 'til then? --fuddlemark (fuddle me!) 23:05, 12 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Sounds good. --D-Day 22:28, 22 October 2005 (UTC)

rvts to modifcation of rules
I removed the addition of mercy rules and tiebreakers from the "modification" section, because they're not actually modifications: they're part of the real, life, honest-to-goodness rules of the game. True story. We've already got a section on the mercy rule; I guess tiebreakers (or at least the reason for them) are important, too. I'll try to add something in there (along with other general changes) soon. fuddlemark (fuddle me!) 07:52, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

Someone who knows the rules please help
On the "Special Circumstances" section, there was a bit of text which used to read:


 * In fast pitch, if the catcher drops strike three (a passed ball), the batter attempts to run to first base.

Now it reads:


 * In fast pitch, if the catcher drops strike three (a passed ball), the batter cannot attempt to run to first base and is still called out.

Which one is correct? If it's not the current one, please replace that paragraph with the old one (just remove the '' tags I've inserted on this talk page). Rbarreira 23:25, 3 February 2006 (UTC)


 * The first one is definitely correct. There are occasions when the batter is out whether the catcher catches the third strike or not (if they are hit in the strike zone, if there is a runner on first with less than two outs), but a) this is relatively rare, and b) this is far too detailed for an encyclopaedia article. fuddlemark (fuddle me!) 12:54, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

Also it isnt always a passed ball. It could be when there is a strike and the catcher just drops it from her glove

it should actually read more like this ''In Fastpitch, if the catcher drops strike three, the batter may attmept to run to first base, however if there was a runner on first base at the time of the pitch the batter is automaticaly out(unless there is 2 outs). In the event of a drop third strike, the first baseman can elect to take either the white or safety base to attempt the out, if they elect the safety base the runner must then run through the white base.'' --Dan027 07:45, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

Yes, the first one is definitly correct. I play softball all the time, and if the catcher drops the ball for any reason what so ever, and there's noone on first base, then you can run. What happens after that depends on how fast you run and what the fielders do. But, yes, you can run unless there are two outs.

Failed GA
Has come a long way but the references are still inadequate to me. savidan(talk) (e@) 04:19, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

International tie breaker error
In the section mentioning the International tie breaker (Ending the Game), it mentions that the person who goes to second base at the start of the next inning is the person who made the 3rd out. Now I'm not a connoisseur of this rule, but I think it is worded wrong. I believe that it is really the last person with a complete at bat who goes to second; this could be because a person not batting could be the 3rd out on the field, or the batter up at bat did not finish because a 3rd out was made. Could someone confirm this so it can be reworded? Thanks! →  &ensp; J ARED  &ensp;(t)&ensp; 00:28, 14 August 2006 (UTC)


 * The runner to start on second base would be the 9th batter in that innings. --Dan027 07:28, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

71.206.125.179 23:31, 7 May 2007 (UTC)== Possible errors ==

I have been playing softball for almost 15years now, reading over this article i have found one or two things i dont personaly agree with, these are:
 * not all softball diamonds have these safety bases and they are much more common in women's softball than in men's, i have never seen a softball game without the safety base.
 * Batting helmets must have two ear flaps, one on each side, and a protective cage. Cages are not required at youth levels but are mandatory at higher levels., i agree with the ear flaps, however have never once seen a helmet with a "cage" at any level of representative softball.
 * Also the official mercy rules were also changed recently, aswell as the DP rule.
 * and once or twice i noticed players being refured to as "she", the sport is played by both male and females the article should reflect this abit more.--Dan027 08:21, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

Some international games (mens) have the safety base removed, depending on what country is hosting the tournament and their rules in regards to the safety base. Helmets (all ages and competitions) must have two ear flaps however I have never seen a helmet with a cage either and doubt you could even find one....-TDC13

Are you joking? The only time I haven't seen a face cage on a batting helmet is when I go see UW play. In highschool, its required. In select, its required. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.237.178.159 (talk) 22:29, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

Now, at the highschool level, you are required to wear a helmet with a cage. It's a new rule.

No church or rec league that I have played on has ever required a helmet of any sort. (All slow pitch.) Only one ever used a safety bag, and that was only an intramural league.

Regarding helmets, I think it would make sense to do the same as was done for safety bases- say they're often used, but not always. We're not writing an article about high school level or any other organization, we're writing about general softball. I think we should be more flexible than a rules book. Smallactsofediting 23:14, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

Popularity
The section states that in most US cities adult teams are organized by pubs. I went ahead and changed "most" to "many" since there was no citation. It has also been my experience that it is very common to see adult softball organized by churches throughout the South, often called church league ball. Has anyone else noticed this and do you think it worth a mention along with the beer leagues. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.252.137.19 (talk • contribs)

Not just in the South, but in the upper Midwest as well, there are many church leagues. It would be worth noting.

Despite a few disputes other talkers have pointed out I must say this is one of the better articles I've read. It takes softball to depths I never thought of. So sue me for wanting to say good f****** job. Jaylectricity 18:43, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

I noticed that all(good) NCAA softball teams are loaded with Californians. Is the sport somehow more popular in California? Or is it good weather that produces more standout softball athletes? 6/7/07

Many churches do have good softball teams, my church included. I'm not sure what makes those Californians such good ball players, but Catherine "Cat" Osterman came out of Texas. Lisa Fernandez's parents were from Puerto Rico and Cuba, but Lisa lived in New York for the early part of her life. She then moved to Cali. Maybe it is the good weather, because they have more oppertunities to play or something. Now you've gotten me confused. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.167.26.34 (talk) 14:07, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

Runs
In NSA, a run counts if it is scored before the third out is recorded during a single play, provided that the third out is neither a force out or a tag of the batter before he has reached first base.
 * I think that's generally true in both softball and baseball. And if the batter is tagged out before he/she reaches first base it IS considered a force out, same if the runner going to second is tagged when forced to go there.  So the last part is redundant.  If the runner crosses the plate before the third out is made it counts unless the third out was a force out or a flyout. Gr8white (talk) 03:58, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

Guidelines
Right now the article says that the only jewelry worn is medic alert devices. This isn't true across the board, I bet, and even at high school level, players can wear religious medals. I would just add in the bit about medals, but I think the issue is a little wider than that- do we want to be copying out of rule books? Should there be a blanket statement that says nearly anything can be adapted?

I feel this article is a bit disorganized. A lot of the things said in the introdution are repeated in slightly greater detail later in the article. Some sort of a layout cleanup is in order, I think, but that's a big judgement call for one newcomer. Smallactsofediting 23:24, 19 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Part g of Rule 3 Section 8 of the official playing rules states "No items, other that medical alert style bracelets or necklaces, may be worn". It also says at the top of Section 8: "EXCEPTION: Players and coaches may, for religious reasons, be permitted to wear specific head covering and apparel that does not conform to standard uniform requirements without penalty." Whether "apparel" included "jewelry" is not specifically mentioned.


 * As for the more specific things mentioned by Smallactsofediting, there is no reason why they couldn't be included if they ahve a reliable source. Miss Madeline | Talk to Madeline 21:33, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

Shannon L. Jones
I can find no record of the above person in softball. If anyone with a wider knowledge of this sport reads this, please take a look and leave any info at the talk page. Thanks in advance!--Stormbay 01:10, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

You're right. I cant find this girl anywhere. I really dont know who she is. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.167.26.34 (talk) 14:10, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

Versions of softball
In my estimation, this article is screaming to be divided into 2 articles, one for fast-pitch and one for slow-pitch. The article jumps around in describing both games, and it is only going to get longer. This article should be an overview of softball and then let the two subarticles explain their sport in more detail. Thoughts? MDfoo (talk) 02:55, 4 March 2008 (UTC)


 * I agree completely. I came to the article looking for information on slow-pitch rules but had to sift through all the fast-pitch rules. I've seen a little fast-pitch, and it's a much different game. Probably as different from slow-pitch as it is from baseball. Batters can hit the ball when they're outside the batter's box!--Plainsong (talk) 21:27, 4 May 2008 (UTC)


 * I'll agree as well. There is as much difference between slow-pitch and fast-pitch as there is

between softball and baseball. ~ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.38.174.228 (talk) 06:03, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

Relevence of info
Is it just me or is most of this article irrelevant? It seems that it is just expaining the rules of baseball. The article should speak on the differences between softball and baseball. For instance; why is how a strike is earned relevant to softball. I think it should just be stated that baseball and softball are almost identical in the rules and then list differences. Anyone else with/against this? Bgrddg253 (talk) 20:04, 4 April 2008 (UTC)


 * There's comparison of baseball and softball. Also, consider it in reverse. Would it be appropriate for the article on baseball to simply go like this:


 * "Baseball is a sport identical to softball, except for the following differences: The game lasts nine innings instead of seven; pitching may be done overarm or sidearm, as well as underarm; the field of play..."


 * I don't think so. The way the article currently is is better because it does not presume a knowledge of baseball. Miss Madeline | Talk to Madeline 23:13, 8 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Oh, don't forget to mention that batters have more time to react to a fastpitch in baseball than they do to a fastpitch softball. (because of the shorter distance, and not all that much slower pitches)71.38.174.228 (talk) 06:09, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

"Anthem of Softball" ?
I removed the section purporting some (uncited) "anthem of softball", which was said to "...be sung before each game." I've seen and played in hundreds of softball games, and have never seen this ritual performed even once. Additionally, it seemed a spurious and completely useless bit of sport-baiting, gender-baiting axe-grinding... deleted "anthem" read:


 * "Softball is better than baseball. We girls are tougher than dirt. We know how to slide, steal, hit, and run. Head-first sliding is so much fun. And its watch watch watch for the change up. If you don't swing it's a shame. For it's one two three grandslams at the softball game!"

Also removed an uncited claim in the opening paragraph that contends that softball predates baseball, which was contradicted conclusively in the body of the article.

Looks like some spurious edits were (rather artlessly) inserted by someone exhibiting a bit of POV "fan-boyish/girlish" behavior. Baseball and Softball are both fantastic games that are quite capable of standing on their own merits... there is no good reason and no need to pit either one against the other to make any sort of point.

Suggestions
It seems to me the article goes into way too much detail regarding the rules, yet in some cases doesn't make a distinction between fast and slow pitch. And the distinction between the two games is never explained, the overview talks about softball then getting into the article references are made to fast pitch/slow pitch without ever actually stating what that means. Shouldn't it be explained early on (in either the lead or overview section) that there are two main varieties, fast and slow pitch?

Examples of my first point: it says the pitcher is required to make a windmill motion. The windmill is legal only in fastpitch and even there it isn't required. Also, it says the foul ball doesn't count as the third strike, but in slow pitch it does (or one foul is allowed). Gr8white (talk) 04:34, 5 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Furthermore, the "Overview" section really seems to be a long summary of the "Field" and "Gameplay" sections of the article, and really seems unnecessary, as it presents the same information twice. Also in that overview, many of the bolded terms could be linked to relevant articles; there is virtually no linking in the pertinent sections later in the article. --LJ (talk) 18:16, 4 April 2009 (UTC)