Talk:Somerville, Massachusetts

Hill Links
Someone had made links out of the names of the hills of Somerville. However, two of them were red links, two of them (Cobble Hill and Prospect Hill) lead to pages about unrelated neighborhoods, two (Spring Hill and Walnut Hill) lead to disambiguation pages that don't include the Somerville locations, and Winter Hill leads to a disambiguation page that does include Winter Hill, Somerville, Massachusetts. I've changed the one useful one to the non-ambiguous page and de-linked the rest. DenisMoskowitz 20:47, 26 October 2005 (UTC)

Somerville Museum note

 * The Somerville Museum is one hidden local treasure for discovering Somerville's roots, in a beautiful building run by volunteers, at 1 Westwood Rd on the corner with Central St. Call 617-666-9810 for information on the latest historical and artistic exhibits.

I moved this fact to Wikitravel, since it is more touristy than encyclopedic. -- Beland 14:43, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

More about the seven hills
First of all, I've been told that two of the seven hills were radically flattened to steal earth to fill in the marsh that became the Back Bay. I don't know which hills those were. I also can't cite my source, but I know there's a book about how the Back Bay became the Back Bay.

Second, there's another city with seven hills, which is Rome, Italy. I've been told that Rome and Somerville have a "sister city" arrangement, but I can't find any evidence of this on the internet.

Since I can't cite either of these things I've left them off, but maybe somebody else knows sources for these. --Dbackeberg — Preceding undated comment added 20:47, 20 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Seattle also has seven hills, there are probably many other examples. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 18.50.1.88 (talk) 15:52, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

While researching information on Ten Hills, I came across a listing of hills in Somerville, written in 1892. There are 10 hills listed (this seems to have absolutely no relevance to the name Ten Hills). The following things are unclear to me and I will research further:
 * What is the origin of the expression "Seven Hills of Somerville"
 * What is the name of the single hill located in the current neighborhood of Ten Hills. Is it what remains of Winthrop Hill?  The hill is shown on many old maps from the 19th century but does not yet found a map that shows a name for it.

--RadioTheodric (talk) 18:06, 18 February 2009 (UTC)


 * I'm curious how Spring Hill fits in with those ten hills. ...From that link it seems to be Strawberry/Central/Middle Hill --Skintigh (talk) 14:43, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

Population density contradictions
On the page that lists north American Cities by population density, Somerville comes second. Central Falls, RI, is fifth on the list, and it is stated on the city's page that Central Falls is indeed the fifth densest city in the United States. This claim is also made of Somersville. Clearly, one page is wrong. Please help me clear this up. Daly 21:15, 26 July 2006 (UTC)


 * If the city's population is 77,478, how can it possibly be the fifth densest city with population under 50,000? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ron Newman (talk • contribs) 22:30, 3 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Changed it from 50K to 100K and added cities in the under 100K list above it.
 * I'd love to find the datasets which I once had that had the area and population info. I calculated density at that time. It seems correct at this time to me, but I'd love to put up a web page with the analysis. Mr. Grace 20:27, 5 November 2006 (UTC) 22:48 UTC 03 November 2006


 * It is the 5th densest over 50k:
 * http://www.demographia.com/db-2000city50kdens.htm — Preceding unsigned comment added by DeanoNightRider (talk • contribs) 05:58, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

http://www.somervillema.gov/AboutSomerville.cfm makes a number of unsubstantiated demographic claims. Anyone know the truth of any of these? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.96.127.84 (talk) 07:28, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

The article for Maywood, CA also claims that city has the densest population outside NY/NJ. Which one is right? Toscaesque (talk) 16:07, 9 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Just going by the population data in the infobox, Maywood is denser (18,868.1/sq mi vs. 23,887.2/sq mi). DenisMoskowitz (talk) 19:05, 9 September 2008 (UTC)


 * "...As of the 2000 census, the city had a total population of 77,478, and was the most densely populated municipality in New England, and the most dense in the United States outside the New York - New Jersey metropolitan area..." THIS IS NOT THE CASE...there are several suburban cities in the Los Angeles basin and that have a greater population density than Somerville (Maywood, Cudahy and West Hollywood, for example), as well as one city that's about the same population size as Somerville: Huntington Park. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.10.62.253 (talk) 20:14, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

Too much emphasis on crime?
Crime is only a minor problem anywhere in Somerville. This article puts way too much emphasis on an unimportant topic. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ron Newman (talk • contribs) 13:26, 26 October 2006 (UTC)


 * I lived in East Somerville. In East Somerville - crime was not a minor problem, but I agree, there's too much emphasis on crime. I suspect it's because we're proud of what we have had to deal with.
 * When I lived in Somerville - I was only aware of the Winter Hill and MS13 gang. The reference to five gangs probably should be removed unless it can be further documented. kb1cvh 23:42 UTC Nov 03 2006


 * I've added some links to documentation about the crime issues with MS13 in East Somerville. I was living a block from the Dunkin Donuts and knew the girls that were raped. However, MS13 is an international gang. East Boston, Los Angeles, and many other communities have issues with them also. East Somerville and East Cambridge and East Boston see new Americans arriving constantly. There are some bad lots amoung them, while most are fine people.
 * Do we truly need to highlight the criminal issues that we've dealt with, which aren't truly unique and special to Somerville ? Remember, this is a globally viewable site. I'm updating this from California.
 * I love Somerville. Mr. Grace 21:45, 5 November 2006 (UTC)


 * The entire paragraph starting with "Mystic Projects" is dubious and probably should go away.  The Clarendon Hill Towers are not "close by" the Mystic development; in fact they are nowhere near each other. Ron Newman 23:00, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

I will disagree that Somerville had/has only a minor problem with crime. It has gone in cycles for generations... But will agree that they are not a sole problem unique to the area. But rather a symptom of it's location between so many universities and colleges. The presence of which, lead to continuing problems of anti-intellectualism, and animosities that eventually lead to crimes of opportunity (and occasionally violence) against an ever encroaching upper class due to its location. It has been a reaction to the cycles of gentrification of the city since it's inception. Students and teachers of nearby schools move into the area - and are seen as outsiders, then they have children who see themselves as insiders, who eventually see themselves in the same socio-economic glut as their peers. They eventually have children, who find themselves economically deprived in relation to their continually refreshed population of college students in Cambridge and Medford. Mark Heller 15:24, 7 October 2007

Other factors in the cycle has much to do which it's demographics, and again in relation to its nieghboring communities. In the 18th ~ 19th ceturies prior to the cities inception - the area was agriculural land serving Boston and Cambridge. In the 20th century to the 21st, it served as industrial facilies, worker, and service class housing. My point being, that the area was always one economic class below nieghboring communities. And for the forseeable future, many areas of the eastern areas of Somerville always will be due to urban and actual building architecture and location in relationship to Boston and Cambridge. A phenomina not un-like the "East-end of London", or Bronx of NYC, or Oakland's proximity to San Francisco. These areas will always enjoy an historical reputation for crime and economic depravity in relationship to thier nighboring urban centers. While the ebb and flow trends of economics do change - the locations do not. While I grew up in both Union Sq, and East Somerville, I too am writing from California.... — Preceding unsigned comment added by E57 (talk • contribs) 15:58, 7 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Um, how many cities in America served as the headquarters for the most wanted man in America? Bulger is not your ordinary criminal. He is there right after Osama.... so the most dangerous man alive after Osama and his gang were based in Somerville for decades, how does this make crime a "minor" problem? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.19.14.92 (talk) 05:12, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

On the topic of crime, there is a sentence fragment at the beginning of the article calling Somerville "America's stab capitol" (sic). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.104.99.69 (talk) 03:37, 10 February 2010 (UTC)

George Dilboy
Why not include George Dilboy among the famous people of Somerville? Read his page and you will see that was the first Greek American to be awarded the Congressional Medal of Honor, was cited by General Pershing as one of the 10 greatest heroes of WWI, and was honored by three US presidents. And he has a field named after him in Somerville. I think that merits a mention here, especially compared to the other folks on this list.Notmyrealname 04:08, 2 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Dilboy wasn't born in Somerville. I'm adding a "notable residents" section. -- Akb4 14:57, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

broken display
recent edits seem to have broken display of full article; also some ill-formed links. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rumpuscat (talk • contribs) 21:06, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

History
Should political history of Somerville be included in the 'History' section. While the first Democratic mayor is a significant event, what about other political firsts ? Seems to me that theres too much politicalizing in the Somerville entry.

Additionally - the anti-Irish sentiments were endemic at the time, not just to Somerville. Mr. Grace 21:32, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

Moved political history of Somerville to a new stub page. Perhaps someone will/can add to it. Mr. Grace 22:55, 9 November 2006 (UTC)


 * Another historical note may be - with some confirmation of course, that Crispus Attucks was once buried in Someville (then Charlestown) before later being moved to the Granary Burying Ground. There is a marker on the cut hillside on the northern sidewalk of Washington St. between Washington Terr., and Boston St.
 * http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crispus_Attucks
 * http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Granary_Burying_Ground Mark Heller 21:29, 7 October 2007

Map request
It would be neat to have maps to show: -- Beland 23:19, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
 * The current features, such as major roads and squares.
 * Borders with surrounding present-day municipalities and nearby features in those communities.
 * The original shoreline showing Charlestown Neck.

NPOV - Demographics
I tagged the last paragraph of Demographics with NPOV because it reads more like a "letter to the editor" than an unbiased look at town. I am not from Somerville, so I wouldn't attempt to rewrite it. I think some of the actual facts could be left if they were verified, but some of the ideas (like: people "ignoring problems of working-class families such as drugs, gang violence, and suicides...") need to be either quantified or removed. Anyone from Somerville like to take a shot at cleaning up this section?--Dalmatian Mommy 04:27, 4 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Yeah, that's a poorly-worded explanation of the City's problems. I'm not sure I'm the guy to improve it, but there must be a way to address the issue without POV problems. The "anti-Yuppie" graffiti got some major play in the local press, and conflicts between the Mystic View Task Force people & local old-timers has spilled into the police log in recent years, so some mention of the tension clearly belongs in the article.  Speaking of which, this line - More recently, lobbying by grassroots organizations is attempting to revive and preserve Somerville's "small town" neighborhood environments by supporting local business, public transit, gardens and pedestrian/biker access. - probably needs to be edited.  MVTF is pretty controversial, linking them from that sentence makes them seem like some blissed-out garden club.  So, I support some extensive re-writing of the problematic sections of this article.  I might even take a run at it, if no one proves more motivated than I. BankyEdwards 20:48, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

Notable residents
An anon IP address 76.188.162.249 has twice added someone named John Gorman to the list of "notable residents," and also to the same list for Malden, MA. However, the description with this entry does not match any of the John Gormans on the disambiguation page. The rest of the entries for this user appear to be for the sole purpose of promoting this John Gorman. Please establish notability before reinserting this item on this or other city pages. Thanks. Notmyrealname 02:59, 14 August 2007 (UTC)


 * It does appear to be self-promotion, and a form of spamming. That user and Gmanusa together have put Gorman on the "notable residents" lists tonight for at least four other cities or towns.  Does wiki have criteria for notability, or is eligibility totally arbitrary? Hertz1888 04:07, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

Is Randall Munroe notable? He is famous internet guy. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 132.177.65.220 (talk) 17:39, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

Neighborhoods
"Foodmaster square" seems dubious. Comments? Info lover (talk) 15:22, 11 January 2009 (UTC)


 * Copying here for reference purposes the latter portions of a discussion that took place on the Foodmaster Square article's talk page:

I did find this website where Foodmaster Square is listed as a region of Somerville for real estate purposes. http://massrealestateadvisor.com/vip_buyer.asp Rumpuscat (talk) 15:58, 4 September 2008 (UTC)
 * It is astounding to me that a few maverick literates are missing a central concept of linguistics and human society: dynamic change and evolution. I have been a Somerville resident for over 10 years and while this term certainly wasn't part of common parlance upon my arrival, it is a term that is catching on in wider use among friends and acquaintances in the area.  One need not be an expert in contextual sociolinguistics to understand the introduction of this term: it's a title that makes sense; is easily recognizable; and that is, except for those oddly and without founding fixated on "commercial nature", easily accepted and adopted.  I would urge the critics of this page so far to divest themselves of their apparent self-importance and accept social and linguistic change.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.43.92.191 (talk) 17:32, 4 September 2008 (UTC)
 * You used a lot of big words and obscure terms that I'm not going to bother to look up, and I resent you for it. We (people who are in favor of deleting this article) are not questioning the process by which places are named, as you describe above. We are simply saying that no one actually uses the term "Foodmaster Square", and believe it would make more sense for this term to be used BEFORE a Wikipedia article is created, not the other way around. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.25.77.51 (talk) 19:52, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I know many people using the term Foodmaster Square, and several others who immediately knew the location to which people were referring upon hearing it for the first time. Just because you personally aren't aware of an idea or a term doesn't make it invalid.  That's quite the combination of ignorance and pompousness.SwampJackal (talk) 01:42, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

End of copied discussion. Hertz1888 (talk) 16:45, 11 January 2009 (UTC)

Fascinating. Info lover (talk) 13:28, 13 January 2009 (UTC)


 * This is now incomplete -- a great deal further discussion, including proposed deletion, has occurred regarding this item since this discussion appeared. Please see the talk page and deletion discussion for this item for the full story. 209.6.14.150 (talk) 19:49, 26 March 2009 (UTC)


 * I've never heard the name, myself. Does it refer to the Foodmaster by Alewife Brook, or the one just outside Inman? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.6.44.80 (talk) 03:50, 4 November 2011 (UTC)


 * Alewife Brook. Hertz1888 (talk) 04:28, 4 November 2011 (UTC)

R.I.P.Abbey Lounge
The article references the Abbey Lounge in the culture section. Sadly, the Abbey Lounge is no more. It shut down some time in Nov-Dec (2008). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.30.14.51 (talk) 18:23, 17 January 2009 (UTC)

Where Is Brickbottom?
Brickbottom District (north of McGrath Highway, south of Innerbelt District)

Would it be more accurate to describe it as east of the McGrath, west of Innerbelt? Or do I have it in the wrong place? 38.111.35.2 (talk) 14:15, 1 July 2011 (UTC)

Additional Neighborhoods: "Duck Village," and "The States."
According to the City of Somerville city services map, there are two more neighborhoods in addition to those listed in this article: "Duck Village" in the South-Easterly portion, and "The States," in the North-Easterly portion. Personally, I am surprised to see these regions listed on an official city document, in that I have lived in Somerville for nearly 20 years and have never heard either of those names mentioned, but there it is on the official document. I came to Wikipedia to look up the history of how "Duck Village got its name, and when "The States," (an area in which all of the street names are U.S. States) was developed, but did not find that, and in fact found them absent. Discuss?

Also it may be worth noting that "Clarendon Hill," which is listed in the article under "Hills," is considered by the city to be a region or neighborhood.

Rachel sez (talk) 03:21, 26 October 2011 (UTC)


 * Duck Village is near my house, but you probably wouldn't have heard of it if you didn't live there. It's basically just a little residential area with a playground and some industrial buildings by the tracks. It's in the area between Dane St., Washington St., Beacon St., Park St., and the railroad. There is a "Historical Marker" looking sign hanging in front of one of the houses there, but I don't know how accurate it is. See http://summerinsomerville.wordpress.com/2010/08/09/no-38-palmacci/compdsc02061/ 209.6.44.80 (talk) 13:55, 4 November 2011 (UTC)

Most paved city in America?
I have read online and heard from the historic commission that Somerville is the most paved city in America, with 75% or 95% or something paved or developed or something. I can't find any source for this stat, but I keep hearing it. Anyone have any information on this claim? Skintigh (talk) 19:42, 14 March 2013 (UTC)


 * Update: I finally found a citation... sort of:


 * "Somerville is already the most paved over and built upon city in the state, with 77% of its area paved over" (Boston Globe, Monday April 5, 2010)


 * Except I have no access to that issue of the Boston Globe, can anyone else verify? --Skintigh (talk) 16:07, 1 April 2013 (UTC)


 * I checked the Boston Globe article from April 5, 2010. The title of the article is "Pavement is a culprit in flooding ; Hard surfaces worsen runoff, contamination during heavy rain" written by Beth Daley. It says nothing in the article about it being the most paved in America.  It simply says that it's significantly more paved than Boston.  Here is the quote from the article:




 * Here is a link to the article, if you are curious - Article Acmilan10italia (talk) 07:37, 2 April 2013 (UTC)

Chocolate factory
Hello! I wrote a page on Taza Chocolate, a chocolate factory located in Sommerville, MA. Check it out! Andrea guerrerov (talk) 16:30, 18 November 2015 (UTC)

External links modified
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Improved photo?
Hi all, I don't live in Somerville so I don't have the immediate means to improve this, but if anyone has a better and more recent photo of Davis Square, I feel strongly that would contribute something more to this article. The current photo is more than 10 years old, low resolution, and its composition causes the eye to drift towards that white station wagon rather than the buildings/area itself. Any photo contributions with proper licensing are greatly encouraged. --Simtropolitan (talk) 14:43, 13 September 2017 (UTC)

Historical Squares
The 1910 annual report, page 348, has this list of city squares, including some previous names:


 * Ball Square
 * Central Square (formerly Prescott Square)
 * Concord Square
 * Cutter Square (formerly Russell Square)
 * Davis Square (formerly Clarendon Square)
 * Gilman Square
 * Homer Square
 * Magoun Square (formerly Pollard Square)
 * Metropolitan Square (formerly Post-Office Square)
 * Oak Square (noted in the 1920 report as renamed to Wilson Square)
 * Powder House Square (formerly Tufts Square)
 * Teele Square (formerly Russell Square)
 * Union Square
 * Wesley Square

Many of these (Central, Concord, Cutter, Homer, Metropolitan, Wesley) aren't commonly recognized today. Others, like Gilman Square, are experiencing a revival. It might be interesting to update the list of neighborhoods and squares to reflect the history. Matthew Miller (talk) 13:49, 26 May 2021 (UTC)