Talk:Song of Hannah

Samuel-is-really-Saul material
User:FDuffy appears to have identified a single source for claims that "most textual scholars" believe that Samuel in the story of Hannah (Bible) really refers to Saul. No source is given in this article. User:FDuffy identified a source in the King Saul article, as the personal web site of Rabbi Moshe Reiss,, a self-published source. Per WP:RS,


 * A self-published source is a published source that has not been subject to any form of independent fact-checking, or where no one stands between the writer and the act of publication. It includes personal websites, and books published by vanity presses. Anyone can create a website or pay to have a book published, and then claim to be an expert in a certain field. For that reason, self-published books, personal websites, and blogs are largely not acceptable as sources.

None of the exceptions to self-published sources (e.g. by someone known to be highly regarded in a field) appear to apply here. Accordingly, it appears that this content is not reliably sourced and should be deleted. This is particularly true of the claim that "most" textual scholars hold this view. --Shirahadasha 13:31, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

Here is the text deleted:


 * According to most textual scholars it actually refers to the birth of Saul, with Samuel's name having been substituted awkwardly for Saul in the preceeding narrative; the text is generally considered by biblical scholars to be more likely to have originally been a song of praise directed at a king than a prayer referring to the birth of a prophet. Its seemingly non-prayer-like nature was noticed by classical scholars, who believed that Hannah's prayer was silent and unrecorded, and that the Song of Hannah was what was said afterwards.

--Shirahadasha 13:34, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

That website is not my source, and it is quite disingenuous to claim that my source is the website. I have not even seen that Rabbi's name, let alone his website, until reading this. My source is the Jewish Encyclopedia. You can also see it for example, in the footnote of the New American Bible (a fairly significant translation) - (footnote for 1 Samuel 1:20) --User talk:FDuffy 14:15, 9 September 2006 (UTC)


 * It's rather a long gap to be coming back to this, but does anybody know which article from the Jewish Encyclopedia FDuffy was referring to above? Candidates might be Hannah, Saul, Samuel, Samuel, Books of.  Is this theory mentioned in any of them?  I might have missed something, skimming over the articles too quickly, but I didn't see it there.  Jheald (talk) 20:47, 9 February 2013 (UTC)