Talk:Sonic Chronicles: The Dark Brotherhood/Archive 3

New trailer
The title says it all. Fair field fencer  F F F  10:08, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

Anyone else notice that it said play as over ten characters? Mew Mitsuki (talk) 13:14, 2 August 2008 (UTC)
 * That's what got my attention. Fair field fencer  F F F  13:38, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

yea but what if that means like 11 or 12.... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.150.73.212 (talk) 01:49, 7 August 2008 (UTC)
 * According to sources, it's 11.  Skeletal   S.L.J.C.O.A.A.A.T.R.  01:53, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

Yeah but its release is a couple of months away but only 10 characters have been revealed. Bottomlivefan95 (talk) 08:28, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
 * 1 month away. That doesn't mean anything. They're probably trying to keep it a secret.  Skeletal   S.L.J.C.O.A.A.A.T.R.   Soul  18:56, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

New Sonic Chronicles Interview + Information
Like the title says. New Sonic Chronicles Interview + Information Fair field fencer  F F F  09:42, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

Dexter Character
Can anyone find the screeshot that confirms Amy's new boyfriend in the game? I have seen it but i don't know where to find it. Super Badnik  18:29, 15 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I don't keep up with this game at all, but if it's the one with Amy just mentioning him (IGN is where I think you'll find it), it's not solid enough evidence to say he's actually in the game - which is why he's not in the characters list. Synergy/Blades (Talk) 18:32, 15 August 2008 (UTC)
 * We're unsure if he exists, but there is a Romsntic Subplot according to EGM.GENERALZERO (talk) 18:56, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

Oh. Well we'll just leave him out until we have more information. Super Badnik  17:36, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

hmm? In the game Amy has a boyfriend? This in an interview or just a clip of gameplay? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.150.73.85 (talk) 05:33, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

I knew he was fake. GENERALZERO (talk) 00:04, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

Insider #1
http://sonic.bioware.com/

We'll be getting info on gameplay, story, enemies, characters, etc. They showed Big's art. Interesting. Nothing new for the article as of now, but, this could prove to be helpful soon.  Skeletal   S.L.J.C.O.A.A.A.T.R.   Soul  23:13, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Great. User talk:Mkalv —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.237.46.58 (talk) 20:54, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

Sonic Video Insider: Episode 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PBm8G9XMrsY GENERALZERO (talk) 23:16, 18 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Curses! I was just about to post that! Note: Eggman, is playable. And...the hell?! Angel the Hedgehog!? Err...oh...That just retconned half of my fanfics, and the copyrights that I bought to use Angel...Geez... Skeletal   S.L.J.C.O.A.A.A.T.R.   Soul  01:09, 19 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Pay more attention before jumping to conclusions.GENERALZERO (talk) 02:18, 19 August 2008 (UTC)
 * General, when there's a list of characters, and Eggman is included, that means he's a PC... =.= Skeletal   S.L.J.C.O.A.A.A.T.R.   Soul  04:58, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

...What? No, it doesn't say Eggman is playable anywhere. And that's Angel Island, not "Angel the Hedgehog". User:Bean the Dynamite Duck 02:04, 19 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Why would Angel Island be in a list of PCs? Skeletal   S.L.J.C.O.A.A.A.T.R.   Soul  04:58, 19 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Don't be stubborn. I checked the video again. When it showed the Party Members being selected the one you mistook for Eggman was Big The Cat. Trust me on this. I know what I'm talking about here.GENERALZERO (talk) 05:07, 19 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Here. Go to 0:48, look at the bottom screnn (touch screen) You see listed
 * E-123 Omega
 * Dr. Eggman
 * Rouge the Bat
 * Angel Island?
 * Skeletal  S.L.J.C.O.A.A.A.T.R.   Soul  06:40, 19 August 2008 (UTC)
 * The guy talking said "chossing what to say in combat" as it was shown. That isn't a list of playable characters, it's a list of people you can talk to. Fair field fencer  F F F  09:06, 19 August 2008 (UTC)


 * If you look at the top right of the top screen, it says that that's the journal. Maybe they keep a log of everything they encounter in the game, like in Kingdom Hearts Chain Of Memories. 24.170.132.88 (talk) 10:15, 19 August 2008 (UTC)


 * This is one good reason for not linking to a YouTube video as a reference...! Not that it matters for the purposes of the article, but to clear it up, if you watch the thing in high quality you'll see that at 0:48 the player is accessing a Codex screen - a Sonic database, if you will. You highlight what you want to find out about on the bottom screen, and it tells you about it on the top one. So for instance, Angel Island says, "Angel Island is the home of the Master Emerald, the most powerful relic in Sonic's world, and the Emerald's guardian, Knuckles. (etc)" ...not that this can be included in the article, because it's OR on my part. :)

Okay...so...how can any of this help the article? -Sukecchi (talk) 11:39, 19 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Seeing as its from Bioware themselves, it should be safe to put it in the article, right? Skeletal   S.L.J.C.O.A.A.A.T.R.   Soul  18:23, 19 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Wrong; I suggest a read up on Verifiability: Articles should rely on reliable, third-party published sources with a reputation for fact-checking and accuracy. and also Primary, secondary, and tertiary resources: Wikipedia articles should rely on reliable, published secondary sources. All interpretive claims, analyses, or synthetic claims about primary sources must be referenced to a secondary source, rather than original analysis of the primary-source material by Wikipedia editors. Interpretation of the primary source by several editors is exactly what has gone on here, with several editors offering opinions and no reliable secondary source such as a reliable games website, reporting on the video, used to back up any claims. Hence the video alone is not acceptable for a source for the information. What would be prefered is if we could find a secondary source and use that alone, since the primary source is video content; not only is it made more difficult to find the information than, say, a transcript, but it could be removed at any moment (yes, I realise it's official, but the nature of YouTube should be taken into account).Synergy/Blades (Talk) 18:32, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

Silly Sega, Trix Are For Kids!
Well, apparently, Friday (nao) August, 31st (wut?), Sega/Bioware (Really don't care anymore!) are having Nintendo World (located in New York City. About an hour away from where I currently live W00T!) are giving away free autographed copies of TDB! But, wait, let's repeat that! Friday, August 31'st. Hmmmm....(Stares at calender) I'm pretty sure it says the 31st is Sunday. Hmmmm....This was later corrected to the 28th. Yesterday. Hmmmm...Well, for those who are going now, it started at 9AM. 45 minutes ago. If it was ysterday, I'll go check Ebay now. I'll try going on Sunday to see what's going on here. Be expecting leaks of the game being added soon. Remember, without sources, we can't let them stay, so, be sure to revert everything! I doubt that they can source a leaked giveaway! If I get it, I'll post spoiler for those who just can't wait any longer, and I'll buy the Sonic, Knuckles, and Shade stylus' on Ebay. I just can't wait another month! So, question is, should we add this to the article?

Source: http://www.gamespot.com/ds/rpg/sonicrpg/video/6196977/on-the-spot--08-28-08?tag=;title;1

Skeletal  SLJCOAAATR   Soul teh Hedgehog  13:48, 29 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Thinking more closely, this may be a mistake. They may've meant September 28th. A sunday, and 2 days before the US release. NW does most of ther giveaways, and parties on weekends, so, this makes more sense. I'll keep my eyes peeled for any news! Skeletal   SLJCOAAATR   Soul teh Hedgehog  01:40, 30 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Yup. September 28th. Bring your DS too, for exclusive, rare Chao. Sounds similar to what they do with the Pokemon movies in Japan. heh.

http://www.gamespot.com/shows/on-the-spot/?tag=hotslot;img;3#archive

Skeletal  SLJCOAAATR   Soul teh Hedgehog  02:30, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

Comic
For those of whom have read Sonic #191, could you give a brief description of it to help improve the comic adaption section of the article? I'm hoping to get the issue soon. Untill then, let's try to shape up that section of the article. Thanks! Skeletal  SLJCOAAATR   Soul teh Hedgehog  01:40, 30 August 2008 (UTC)
 * There is a brief description. The only other thing we could put in their is the whole story and that would be going against WP:PLOT. Fair field fencer  F F F  09:08, 30 August 2008 (UTC)
 * ...*facepalm*Waste of a section... Skeletal   SLJCOAAATR   Soul teh Hedgehog  16:25, 30 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Oh sure. A third party reference is such a waste. Fair field fencer  F F F  16:37, 30 August 2008 (UTC)
 * ...Yes?...I just find it pointless to even mention the comic if we can't even have a brief summary as to what happens in it (IE: Who, how, and why Knuckles was kidnapped). Skeletal   SLJCOAAATR   Soul teh Hedgehog  16:41, 30 August 2008 (UTC)
 * He set a trap for the Marauders using the last Chaos Emerald and the Tornado for parts with Tails' help. The plan back fired, the Marauders escaped, attacked Knuckles, Shade comes along and defeats him with ease. Then they take him hostage, unaware of Tails' prescence. When they leave, he heads to warn Sonic about what happened. How does that sound? Fair field fencer  F F F  16:46, 30 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Not much o a prolouge, but, whatever! Adding that to the section shouldn't violate anything. Skeletal   SLJCOAAATR   Soul teh Hedgehog  01:48, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

On The Spot At Gamespot
http://www.gamespot.com/shows/on-the-spot/?tag=hotslot;img;3#archive

Some dude discussing a little about the game. He talks about how Sonic's option to say different things will change the relationships between characters, and the different abilities that each character will have. Nothing that big to me. If I missed anything important, by all means, add it to the article! Skeletal  SLJCOAAATR   Soul teh Hedgehog  02:28, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

New Art & Posters
http://www.tssznews.com/2008/09/05/new-sonic-chronicles-art/#comment-2196

I'm liking the art for Rouge, Cream, and Omega. But, the fact that Eggman's included there worries me a bit...Anyways, the darwn posters are looking beautiful! I'll try removing the TSSZnews logo from them, and perhaps we should add one to the article? Skeletal  SLJCOAAATR   Soul teh Hedgie  03:46, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

Eggman is playable?
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v158/KnucklesChao/EGGMAN.jpg

Yes, I realise that we can't use Photoshop, as this could easily (And dear god, hopefully) be fake as hell. Whatever happened to G-Mel...? Alas, my awesome robot buddy... Skeletal  SLJCOAAATR   Soul teh Hedgie  04:09, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

Not fake. It's from a video: http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=5qUYE75kD6o 39 seconds in. Personally, I hoped he would be playable. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.193.184.126 (talk) 06:01, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Bloody hell! Eggman's playable? With the good guys? Did not see that coming! But we don't know if he's playable. He could have been a tag along char or something like that. The game will be released soon, so let's sit tight until then. And Eggman joins forces with E-123 Omega? I don't think things are how they seem. Fair field fencer  F F F  15:38, 6 September 2008 (UTC)


 * I like it actually. I think it could develop Eggman's character, and perhaps even resolve things between him and Omega. Since Omega hasn't been obsessed with killing him lately, it'd be nice to officially put that to rest. Eggman's a complex and popular character, so this isn't surprising. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.193.184.126 (talk) 15:43, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Triple F! Since when do you say hell? I've never seen you so upset. lol. Anyways, I just hate it whenvillians are PC's, or even support characters (Alot of RPG's have support characters who are only playable for a quick part, and help you out for a bit. Like Kingdom Hearts 2, with the Final Fantasy 7 cast.) Anyways, it's looking pretty real...Hopefully he's just a minor support, and G-Mel's still the final PC. I wouldv'e even taken Marine, over Eggman... =.= Skeletal   SLJCOAAATR   Soul teh Hedgie  15:53, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
 * To be fair, Eggman's become less of a villain and more of an antihero over time. It's fitting he's playable —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.193.184.126 (talk) 16:16, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I agree with you that he's become more of an anti-hero, but, one can only miss the old Eggman Empire days. Besides, Eggman was gonna be a More credible badguy. Bullf***, Bioware. Freaking kicking G-Mel in his shiny, metallic, hard, steel balls of steel. G-Mel was supossed to be the final PC. G-MEL Skeletal   SLJCOAAATR   Soul teh Hedgie  16:22, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Considering you don't even KNOW what Eggman's role in the game, you can't say stupid fanboy stuff like that if we don't know his intentions. CBFan (talk) 21:39, 7 September 2008 (UTC)
 * You ought to know by now that this is not a discussion forum, guys. SynergyBlades (talk) 16:30, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Sorry Synergy, I'm just upset about it... Skeletal   SLJCOAAATR   Soul teh Hedgie  16:34, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
 * You guys have been told time and time again NOT to use this talk page as a discussion forum. Even when you're discussing the article you still manage to turn it into forum-like content. -Sukecchi (talk) 16:57, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I've added the "notaforum" template to the top of the talk page, so note its contents that will apply from now on: This is not a forum for general discussion of Sonic Chronicles: The Dark Brotherhood. Any such messages will be deleted. Please limit discussion to improvement of this article. SynergyBlades (talk) 17:40, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Sorry about that. But it seems unlikely. For starters, in the team Sonic was nowhere to be seen, making me think that Eggman was a tag along. There were four characters, Eggman, Amy, Tails and Big. It has to be sorted out if Eggman's playable, and I thought that you couldn't have a team without Sonic. (Although I remember seeing a video stating otherwise.) We've got to be sure so we don't mess this up. And there are only supposed to be 11 characters. Adding Eggman and Shade would make 12. Fair field fencer  F F F  21:57, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
 * My mistake, 11. Did we get rid of somebody? I could've sworn that we had 11 ages ago. Fair field fencer  F F F  21:59, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
 * No. We never got the 11th. Due to the Gizoids being in, I've made the inclusion of G-Mel being the final PC for monthes. Anyways, until something says otherwise, Eggman IS a PC... Skeletal   SLJCOAAATR   Soul teh Hedgie  22:12, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
 * First time since Sonic Adventure 2. Which was notably considered the last good Sonic game by many fans. Maybe BioWare are trying to win back the hearts of those fans. Might be worth putting in the article. Fair field fencer  F F F  22:16, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
 * No. He was a PC in Riders, Zero Gravity, Tennis, and I think one other. Pretty pointless addition to the article. Don't bother. Skeletal   SLJCOAAATR   Soul teh Hedgie  22:26, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Sorry guys, but your back and forth is showing quite clearly that we have original research in the article. Where's our reliable secondary source stating Eggman is playable? We don't have one, and so what we have are two editors synthesising their own opinions from scraps they have found (we already had this with SLJ deciding a new character called Angel the Hedgehog was in the game). In this instance, it may well be true, but that's not the way Wikipedia works - adding fact tags until something more reliable is found. SynergyBlades (talk) 22:28, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Actually, it's from a quick video from the minigame site. (Or at least I've been told) It won't let me get in, so I don't now. That's where this all came from. Anyone else wanna take a shot at geting in? Skeletal   SLJCOAAATR   Soul teh Hedgie  22:32, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
 * We had a similar problem with the other site a few months back; as a primary source that requires you to jump through umpteen minutes of hurdles to view the information that supposedly backs up an editor's claims on an encyclopedic article, it is not a suitable reference. Again, secondary is preferred - game sites, magazines reporting on the event in question. SynergyBlades (talk) 22:52, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
 * It barely lasts a few seconds. CBFan (talk) 21:39, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

it's hard for me to tell if it Eggman Mysterious   Nazo  08:12, 12 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I still think we need more info before we confirm Eggman Mysterious  Nazo  10:32, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

Minigame Site
http://www.sega.co.uk/sonicchronicles/minigame/uk/index.html

It won't let me in... Skeletal  SLJCOAAATR   Soul teh Hedgie  16:28, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Since each Chao has a seperate name, should we do the same, or not? Skeletal   SLJCOAAATR   Soul teh Hedgie  22:38, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

New Interview
http://palgn.com.au/article.php?id=12392&sid=248d0156da654cf21610c3b51cb3ab3f

Hmm. Some juicy tidbits. More hints at a sequal (I think we should add that to the article...). DK (NOT Donkey Kong.) talks a little bit about how the game works. Again with the whole "Oh, ez teh Newcles gut teh kidnupz!, N Sunec recu hem FAST!!!1!!!!!!1!1" Same ol, same ol there. I'll add the important things to the article now. Let me know if I missed anything! Skeletal  SLJCOAAATR   Soul teh Hedgie  21:58, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Oh, and, no Wi-Fi Skeletal   SLJCOAAATR   Soul teh Hedgie  22:38, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
 * If there's no Wi-Fi, then that boxshot in the infobox featuring the blue Wi-Fi logo is out of date. Is there a more up-to-date one available? SynergyBlades (talk) 22:49, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
 * It was confirmed about a week ago. I believe only fansites have the updated cover, but, I'll see if I can find it on IGN, or som'n... Skeletal   SLJCOAAATR   Soul teh Hedgie  03:41, 7 September 2008 (UTC)
 * | The first sighting of the updated box. Skeletal   SLJCOAAATR   Soul teh Hedgie  03:47, 7 September 2008 (UTC)
 * | The games own site... :P Too bad I can't save it...It's the only offical source using the current box. IGN, Amazon, Gamespot, etc. have the old. Fansites showing pics of it from their local gamestore. I even Googled it, and got nothing but fansites, and radom screenshots, And Shade porn... Skeletal   SLJCOAAATR   Soul teh Hedgie  04:02, 7 September 2008 (UTC)
 * As it's identical save for the Wi-Fi logo, I've cropped it from the current one and re-uploaded it. SynergyBlades (talk) 04:17, 7 September 2008 (UTC)
 * So...Am I missing a difference? Skeletal   SLJCOAAATR   Soul teh Hedgie  04:22, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

It's gone Gold
Hey dudes should I add that the game has gone gold?Wolly da wanderer (talk) 23:01, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
 * If you have a reliable source, then it's interesting development information, so place it in the Development section (along with source, of course). SynergyBlades (talk) 23:17, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

This is the link http://www.crispygamer.com/news/index.php/2008-09-05/sonic-chronicles-the-dark-brotherhood-complete/ Is it OK? Wolly da wanderer (talk) 03:14, 7 September 2008 (UTC)
 * That should be fine. If not, I believe Sega.com has it too. I found out last night, but, I really didn't see it as noteworthy for the article... Skeletal   SLJCOAAATR   Soul teh Hedgie  03:42, 7 September 2008 (UTC)
 * It's great real-world info for the development section, and couldn't be more appropriate since that's what the development section is intended to, er, chronicle. SynergyBlades (talk) 04:08, 7 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I guess...Whatever. I'm keeping my eyes peeled for more info. Sources say there's to be major plot leakage today, or tomorrow, but, that's just stupid rumors. Skeletal   SLJCOAAATR   Soul teh Hedgie  04:15, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

Public Enemy Number 1!?
http://wiiz.fr/article.php?a=19860

(Hey, Synergy, we ca use this as a reliable source, RIGHT?)

Well, looking at those screens, it appears that the Zoah, really aren't the enemy? And a Zoah member says that Sonic's public enemy number 1...I'll give it a brief mentioning under the story section, though, I'm not sure if it'll fit...? If you guys don't think it's too apropiate yet, feel free to remove anything that I add! Skeletal ''' SLJCOAAATR   Soulsor  23:15, 15 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I have asked you not to do this before - why are you interpreting screenshots to your own opinions? Sonic isn't even in the one that has "public enemy number 1" in it. SynergyBlades (talk) 23:37, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

Well if Sonic isn't, which I didn't anyone else in those scene shots, who is? Oh and I'm Back! Sonic& Mario Fan  20:58, 15 September 2008 (UTC)
 * It's not for us to judge or interpret, hence why it doesn't go into the article, unless you've got a secondary source from a reliable site. SynergyBlades (talk) 01:00, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

I reckon they are probably talking about Sonic although its probably banter or sarcasm...or maybe they think he's trying to invade their world! Or something, i dunno... Bottomlivefan95 (talk) 16:35, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Obviously we don't have many Sonic X fans here. They're calling him enemy no.1 because he's a threat to their evil army. Like the Metarex did. Fair field fencer  F F F  16:46, 16 September 2008 (UTC
 * Now hold on a sec. Remember now, The Dark Brotherhood and The Zoah are enemies, so they could be speaking of Shade, but I'm just specualting. GENERALZERO (talk) 00:06, 17 September 2008 (UTC)
 * This is not the place to discuss such things. It's speculation and cannot be added to the article. Period. No need to go on about who you think it's talking about. This is not a forum. -Sukecchi (talk) 01:56, 17 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Hey, sorry. I thought it'd be useful for the article... Skeletal  ''' SLJCOAAATR   Soulsor  03:31, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

Classes
Because the YouTube video insiders have mentioned them, is it worth including details of the classes here? I've made a small edit mentioning it. CBFan (talk) 09:11, 17 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Why not add the citation to the article so that we don't have to come to the talk page to find out where you got the information? SynergyBlades (talk) 13:53, 17 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I'd love to, but I can't add citations. I can't figure out how they work. All I can really do is clear up the vandalism and correct information. CBFan (talk) 14:00, 17 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Why not read WP:CITE and find out? Bob  f'''  it  02:00, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

Main/Spin-off?
I suggest that this be classified as a Main Handheld Series release, as this game, quote, "Ties in with the series main continuity" according to many reliable sources. (Electronic Gaming Monthly, Game Informer, etc.) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Armageddon1994 (talk • contribs) 15:42, 23 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm not too sure. It's not even being worked on by Sega in any way (I think...), unlike the Rivals games, where Sega & Backbone worked together (I think...). We don't have many reliable sources saying it ties in with other games. Like, we know that the Marauders are actually a remaining tribe of Echidna's from an alternate dimension, and Chaos & Tikal may have a role, but, we don't have any reliable sources to back this...At least, from what I've seen. Skeletal  ''' SLJCOAAATR   Soulsor  18:27, 23 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Actually, in a recent issue of Electronic Gaming Monthly (a rather reliable information source), it was stated in a Sonic Chronicles preview that it "fits into the series main continuity" and BioWare and Sega themselves stated that Chronicles would close most of the gaps left open at the ends of previous games. (How Shadow keeps resurrecting himself, the full extent of the Chaos Emeralds' powers, etc.) Armageddon1994 (talk —Preceding undated comment was added at 19:49, 23 September 2008 (UTC).
 * Hmmm...Okay then. We'll wait for others' opinions on the matter. As for the gaps, Shadow has never ressurected himself. He never even died. He fell out of orbit, and one of Eggman's robots saved him, though, he had amnesia. This was stated in his game. And, wasn't it previously stated that the Chaos Emeralds had unlimited power? Anyways, the only thing it seems to answer is the whole Echidna thing. Skeletal  ''' SLJCOAAATR   Soulsor  19:56, 23 September 2008 (UTC)
 * It would indeed be in the Main Series. It explains how Angel island got up in the sky in the first place. GENERALZERO (talk) 20:10, 23 September 2008 (UTC)
 * ? Source? Though, that doesn't aotomatically clasify the game as mainseries y'know. Skeletal ''' SLJCOAAATR Soulsor 20:49, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

Cameos & Un-Named Characters
Just pondering the question, with all of the leaks of the game in the past 2 days, should we add to the character list, characters who are currently un-named (The Echidna dude who looks like he's eating his beard, the slimy guy, etc.), and characters who appear to just be making a cameo (Eggrobo)? Just wondering what everyone else thought. Also, should we mention that Austria stores have released copies before the release? Skeletal ''' SLJCOAAATR Soulsor 22:16, 23 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I think it should only when they are revealed on the official site. The 2 blank spots currently belong to the Echidna we've seen and someone else.GENERALZERO (talk) 23:42, 23 September 2008 (UTC)
 * If possible, wait for more reviews to come out and then use them to source character appearances (I've just done that for Eggman's playability status... at last!) As for the Austria stores thing, that's probably interesting/notable enough for the development section, after the discussion on its gold status. SynergyBlades (talk) 00:22, 24 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Cool, guys. And General, not all of the characters are getting profiles. Only the major ones. From what I've heard (No 100% confirmation yet.) the Chaotix have a very small role. Anyways, good to hear Synergy! I'll try being on the lookout as much as possibe with all these leaks, so, I'll probably be adding alot of things to the artile throughout the week. As for the Austria leak, I just gotta find more evidance than a bunch of fansites saying so! Skeletal ''' SLJCOAAATR Soulsor 01:10, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

Super Sonic
Just to give the heads-up, accordng to leaked info, Super Sonic is a PC for the end of the game. I'll keep my eyes peeled for full confirmation. ;) Skeletal ''' SLJCOAAATR Soulsor 01:47, 24 September 2008 (UTC)
 * where's the proof? Mysterious  Nazo  08:10, 26 September 2008 (UTC)
 * There isn't any.GENERALZERO (talk) 20:27, 26 September 2008 (UTC)
 * There is now. GENERALZERO (talk) 00:05, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

Character Order
Before Triple F, and I start non-stop editwarring, I personally think that we should list the characters in the order of which they were introduced, Triple F thinks that we should list them in the Heroes order. Though, there's a glitch with that, Eggman, Shade, Gizoids, etc., etc., etc. weren't on Heroes' P.C. roster. Once the game's out, I think we should rearrange te character to the order of which they appeared in Chronicles. Comments/Opinions/Questions? Skeletal ''' SLJCOAAATR Soulsor 18:41, 24 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I was only refering to the PCs. Although we could do it in the order they're in on the Chronicles website. Fair field fencer  F F F  18:43, 24 September 2008 (UTC)
 * They ought to be sorted into "class" provided a reference can be found for this statement above the list: A character can be either a power class, (such as Sonic), a shifter class, (such as Amy), or a support class, (such as Tails).[citation needed]
 * Whilst we're at it, could we keep the NPC section short? Is it really notable that a Millipede is a non-playable character, for instance? I think your judgement is probably better here since I haven't kept enough with the game to know who is a notable NPC and who isn't. In addition, for those NPCs who currently belong to sub-sub-bullet points (e.g Decurian) I'm thinking we should create some sort of prose so as to Wikify it a bit better. Once the game comes out, we are going to need to expand the Plot section with references from the game script anyway, and this may help wrap up these less-notable NPCs. SynergyBlades (talk) 18:47, 24 September 2008 (UTC)
 * As for what Triple F said about the site, thet's tough, since, Rouge, Eggman, Cream, and Big don't have profiles yet. As for Synergy's not notable, judging by what we've seen so far, those character are both enemies, and have actual parts. Seeing as most RPG's usually have loads of characters (See the Mario RPGs for instance), maybe we should narrow it down to just the ones who have large roles? Though, that'd have to wait till offical sources say so...We don't have many reliable sources with info about the leaks...And as for going by class, I find that difficult as, that would also seem rather random. Why list say, Shifter first, and not Power? Or something of that variation. So, once we get some more reliable sources, I think we should list the characters in the order of which they appear in Chronicles. Untill, then, we should just leave them under the order of introduction to the series. Skeletal ''' SLJCOAAATR Soulsor 18:55, 24 September 2008 (UTC)
 * The problem is that the list was NOT by order of first appearance. It lists Cream (who technically debuted in Sonic Advance 2) BEFORE Shadow and Rouge (who both first appeared in Sonic Adventure 2...one whole year beforehand). It's been adjusted now, but the point still stands. CBFan (talk) 18:49, 24 September 2008 (UTC)
 * CBF, that's why I suggested this, and rearranged them in series introduction order. ;) Skeletal ''' SLJCOAAATR Soulsor 18:55, 24 September 2008 (UTC)
 * But you hadn't. As I stated, you put Cream before Shadow and Rouge when she should have come after. CBFan (talk) 20:29, 24 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Opps, sorry, CBF! Skeletal ''' SLJCOAAATR Soulsor 23:37, 24 September 2008 (UTC)
 * How's this? Fair field fencer  F F F  20:20, 24 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Sonic the Hedgehog
 * Miles "Tails" Prower
 * Knuckles the Echidna
 * Amy Rose
 * Shadow the Hedgehog
 * Rouge the Bat
 * E-123 Omega
 * Cream the Rabbit
 * Big the Cat
 * Doctor Eggman
 * Shade
 * I'm not really sure what that's meant to be "stating", if you know what I mean. CBFan (talk) 20:29, 24 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Hmmm...Not too fond of it Triple F...You said you're putting them in Heroes order, correct? Why list Speed before Flight? Why list Team Sonic first? Why Eggman before Shade? Why's Shade last? It seems rather random to me. Once we get proper sources, we'll list them in the games order. Untill then, series introduction seems more proper, well, from my point of view at least. Skeletal ''' SLJCOAAATR Soulsor 23:37, 24 September 2008 (UTC)
 * It goes speed, flight and power in Sonic Heroes. Let's just do it the regular way. Whenever there's a list of characters it always goes, Sonic, Tails, Knuckles, Amy Rose, and I think it should then go, Shadow, Rouge, E-123 Omega, Cream, Big, Eggman and Shade, (because she's the new character). Fair field fencer  F F F  08:25, 25 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Maybe once someone plays the game, we can group the characters by their class.
 * As whoever this was, (Synergy? CBF? Unknown? etc. (Too lazy to look at history)) I think that would be wiser, except, for once again, why list a certain class before another? I think we should list them however the game lists them, however, we may have to yet a few more days for that... Skeletal ''' SLJCOAAATR Soulsor 19:28, 25 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Does it really matter, in the grand scheme of things, which class comes first? Class grouping makes since that's the logical grouping for this particular game. Let's just get them put in when we have the sources ready, and concentrate on the rest of the article. SynergyBlades (talk) 20:44, 25 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I personally see it as something that should be taken cae of, since they constantly getting switched. I still think that once we get the sources, let's put them all in the games order. Skeletal ''' SLJCOAAATR Soulsor 21:06, 25 September 2008 (UTC)
 * The order doesn't matter, so stop making a big deal about such little things. RobJ1981 (talk) 06:43, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

Non-playable character list
I've created a discussion here about it: Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Video_games, any input would be helpful. RobJ1981 (talk) 23:27, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

Merchandise / Products
I was wondering, should we make a section about merchandise for the game? I mean, we've got the Sonic, Knuckles, and Shade DS stylus', and DS skin, metallic ballpoint pens, T-shirts (See the Youtube videos), and suppossedly (Not confirmed by any reiable sources yet) figurines, and plushes of the games cast. I think that these products are noteworthy, and should get a brief mentioning within the article. Just, should we put it under "Other Media", or give it a seperate section? It's up to weather you guys think it's notable enough. Later! Skeletal ''' SLJCOAAATR Soulsor 20:38, 26 September 2008 (UTC)
 * A subsection under Other media might be appropriate, as it gives some real-world info, but as I'm sure you've figured out by now, find a secondary source that describes them first. SynergyBlades (talk) 21:53, 26 September 2008 (UTC)
 * For the stylus', we could use the Gamestop site, and for the DS skin, Circuit City's. The tshirts have currently only been sen on Bioware's YT videos...The metallic pen(s?) came with a Pokemon magasine in the UK. Though, still nothing fully confirmed about the plushes, and figurines. Skeletal ''' SLJCOAAATR Soulsor 21:59, 26 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Any, say, press release or news reports on game sites about the items? I'd rather we linked to something more permanent like the aforementioned items, than the items in a shop directly (they'll disappear eventually). SynergyBlades (talk) 22:11, 26 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Hmm...I didn't think about that. I'll have to take a look. Skeletal ''' SLJCOAAATR Soulsor 15:09, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

Can we expand?
Can we expand the plot and review sections please?Wolly da wanderer (talk) 11:32, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
 * When one of us has either got, or won the game yes. I've got it no order. Some say it should be a week, and this will be my first game on DS. So it shouldn't be too long before I've won it. Fair field fencer  F F F  12:36, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I have no DS, nor particular interest in playing this game, so will defer the plot section to others, but please keep it concise (I realise being an RPG there will be intricate details, but keep it broad enough), and reference it with game script as appropriate (click edit on the Uncharted plot section for how to reference plot details). SynergyBlades (talk) 16:55, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

First ten minutes of Sonic Chronicles, in French
Like the title says. Fair field fencer  F F F  15:21, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
 * There's a reason why I didn't post it here myself a few days ago. I didn't watch it, don't want major spoilers, and I'm not sure how much help it can be to the article. Skeletal ''' SLJCOAAATR Soulsor 15:31, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Yep, this isn't particularly useful. SynergyBlades (talk) 16:52, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

Review grid
Regarding the grid of review scores, it doesn't convey any unique information, and it's a major POV magnet (people who like the game cram in good scores, people who don't cram in bad ones). Plus, it's ugly. I've reverted removing it since I messed up some refs, but I intend to remove it again.

The fact that other articles use these grids is irrelevant, because they're just as bad in those articles as this one, and not a few articles have had them removed for this reason at WP:FAC. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 02:38, 28 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Okay. I think (Just using this as an example. No harm meant! Report me if you take it the wrong way. Seriously. I'm not kidding.) you're ugly. Should you now be removed from Wikipedia? No. The reviews add a good amount of relevant outside info to this article, and the same to other articles. I believe POV ia talking about the POV of random fans/vandals (Whatever you may call them.) These are the reviews from professional, and reliable sources such as IGN. Specific people's opinions/understandings of guidelines isn't what we should go by. We need a fine line between policy, and what the readers want. An actual compromise. Unlike last time. Policy does not trump consenus to those who say so. Skeletal ''' SLJCOAAATR Soulsor 02:45, 28 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I am not a part of an article. When you have two ways to do something in an article, you choose the less ugly way of doing it.
 * As for POV, you may want to read WP:NPOV. Selective use of sources is not NPOV. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 03:04, 28 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I had aimed to get a range of reviews from best to worst, and I feel it accomplishes this so that readers can see what sort of range of reviews it got as well as just an aggregate score. Plus, I quite like how it looks. It needs to go to Wikiproject:Video games for a proper discussion to reach consensus so it can be applied across all game articles, or none at all; simply taking up your cause about its perceived ugliness on this one article alone isn't achieving much. SynergyBlades (talk) 03:13, 28 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Why not simply do that in prose? - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 03:18, 28 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I find it quite concisely presents a large array of data where prose would not, but like its supposed ugliness, it's subjective. SynergyBlades (talk) 03:50, 28 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Review scores are not useful data without any further context. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 04:11, 28 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Which is where I think the prose kicks in, and the table complements; the reader can match elements from the reception section to the rating it was given to get context on that particular part of prose they're reading about, and with a range of review scores like those found in Chronicles even with only nine reviews so far, I feel this really adds to the overall explanation of its reception. SynergyBlades (talk) 04:22, 28 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Adds what? The numbers are the least important part of the review, and a number of reviews have nothing but numbers. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 04:35, 28 September 2008 (UTC)
 * It's clearly an issue that would affect a large number of existing articles, including those featured that use it, and one that really needs to be applied universally, so I've started a discussion in the hopes of reaching a consensus that can be applied across all video game articles, not just a portion. SynergyBlades (talk) 03:50, 28 September 2008 (UTC)
 * AMIB, if you hate how it looks just change the code to something better. Fair field fencer  F F F  07:37, 28 September 2008 (UTC)
 * It's a sizable grid of low-value data. I guess I could edit it to be smaller, but that only lessens the basic problem. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 08:24, 28 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I meant the template itself. If you consider it ugly makeit look better. Fair field fencer  F F F  08:45, 28 September 2008 (UTC)
 * And if this is about the 34535324th discussion you've had about this, then it means it isn't going to be changed. Fair field fencer  F F F  08:46, 28 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Is your watchlist not showing new edits? Because mine isn't. Fair field fencer  F F F  08:48, 28 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Nothing came of the previous discussions. It's "Hey, these are kind of a bad idea." "Yeah, they are." "We should do something about them." "Probably." (archive thread) - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 10:01, 28 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Then what makes you think this discussion will work. By the way, the watchlists are broken. Fair field fencer  F F F  10:03, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

(Unindent) My WL's perfectly fine. Probably just yours. Anyway, back on topic, I just don't get where you're coming from, here AMIB. Are you trying to say that reviews of games that add real world info should be removed because you simply think their ugly, or are you trying to get something else through? Skeletal ''' SLJCOAAATR Soulsor 18:28, 28 September 2008 (UTC)
 * It happened to a load of watchlists earlier today, Wikipedia heads informed us about it in that big block on watchlists. Fair field fencer  F F F  18:43, 28 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Meh. Whatever. SNN. NAO! Back on topic now. Skeletal ''' SLJCOAAATR Soulsor 18:53, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

Shade the Echidna
Shade is an Echidna. I have not got the game, but this image speaks for itself. I know that this can't count as a ref, but it's likely that one character was surprised and said something like "You're an Echidna!?" If such dialogue exists, please add it to this talk page immediately. In all honesty I'm not that surprised, BioWare stated they were going to ty up loose ends, if my deductions are correct, (I've been watching Sherlock Holmes), then two mysteries have been cleared up. Q:What happened to the rest of the Echidnas to make Knuckles the last one? A:They were somehow transported to the Twilight Cage and became the Dark Brotherhood, a reference to the Archie series, (examples: Dark Legion-Dark Brotherhood, Twilight Zone-Twilight Cage). Q: It is said in Sonic Battle that the Gizoid fell from the sky. From where? A: My guess would be they're alien robots, on the planet Kron if I'm not mistaken. Might be considered noteworthy. Fair field fencer  F F F  15:47, 29 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Actually, the game does NOT answer the question of Knuckles supposedly being the last echidna. Shade's tribe (the Nocturnus) had been at war with Knuckles' ancestors (the Knuckle Tribe, that of Tikal and her father), and only the Nocturnus ended up in the Twilight Cage. The other tribe was not long after almost entirely wiped out by Chaos (they angered him by trampling the chao while trying to take the Chaos Emeralds from the shrine in order to have an edge when battling the Nocturnus, who had their own powerful creation, the Gizoids). Besides, both incidents happened thousands of years ago, so them being transported/almost killed off doesn't explain Knuckles' lone existence in the present. 24.40.178.169 (talk) 23:59, 4 October 2008 (UTC)
 * At a a guess I'd say a few members of Echidnas survived, who are Knuckles' ancestors, until they were finally left with Knuckles' parents who had an only child and died. Fair field fencer  F F F  09:16, 5 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Yeah, but that's just speculation. The info that the echidnas of Tikal's tribe were almost completely wiped out is from games other than this one (the survivors created Angel Island so no one could repeat their mistake of greed for the Master Emerald). This game talks about a separate group of echidnas unrelated to Knuckles.24.40.178.169 (talk) 12:14, 5 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Any specific information about the fate of the Echidnas ought to go in the article on Knuckles, with a brief mention in the plot section that their fate is explained in the game (but giving details is probably over the top for the game's plot summary). Of course, getting references for any of this is paramount. SynergyBlades (talk) 15:57, 29 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Absolutely. But I feel that Shade's species is important, and should at least be mentioned in the story section without going into too much detail. Fair field fencer  F F F  16:13, 29 September 2008 (UTC)