Talk:Sonic the Hedgehog (character)/Archive 5

Friends/Rivals/Enemies/etc
Look, the section is way too long. Being these characters are "supporting characters" it'd be expected that their relationships with Sonic be detailed further in their own wiki pages with perhaps no more than a couple of sentences at most explaining a general idea of their relationships to Sonic on his page. Also, this only explains the relations Sonic's had in the Japanese/newage depictions of Sonic. SonicMobius 20:37, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

Jingle All The Way?
In Jingle All The Way, someone is just wearing a Sonic costume so I don't think it should be considered as an actual appearance. Dark Rain

Yeah that's true.Themasterofwiki 17:42, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

Actually, I was the one who put that there. I mean, c'mon, Sonic costume=Sonic appearance. Same dif. Spottedstripe 14:02, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

You mean Sonic costume = Sonic cameo. Completely different. *ChaosMiles07 15:39, 12 July 2007 (PST)

Associated songs
I noticed the Associated songs section is missing all the songs from the Sonic CD soundtrack, from both the Japanese and US releases. Maybe they should be added. The songs are "Sonic - You Can Do Anything" and "Cosmic Eternity - Believe In Yourself" by Keiko Utoku from the Japanese CD and the theme from the US release was "Sonic Boom" which was performed by Pastiche. Petros86 18:24, 2 March 2007 (UTC) I love all the Sonic song's but who is pastiche?

walk of game star
we should mention he got a star in walk of game--Superbub 02:31, 5 March 2007 (UTC) WHA

The death
In Sonic the hedgehog next gen is it true that Sonic died and call me Sonic pleaseSonicrules2 03:38, 8 March 2007 (UTC)Sonicrules2

Warning, Spoilers here : Yes, he died. Mephiles killed him. But he ressurected later as Super Sonic. DjinnFighter 01:28, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

But then again, (SPOILER! OH NO!) it never really happened. Or something. Regardless, it was just a one-time event in one game, and is nothing of grave importance. Gurko 15:54, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

I would rather we don't put spoliers here. I have beat the game completly on PS3 and Sonic dies but comes back to life but don't put spoliers in here. NOTE: Gurko you are kinda giving a spoiler too you know.Themasterofwiki 17:47, 12 March 2007 (UTC) who is Mephiles,I DOUBT HE WOULD WANT TO KILL SONIC

Tmow, it doesn't matter whether you would want to have spoilers in here. There is no rule in Wikipedia saying we cannot, as long as we put in a template that one is coming up. CatMan 01:16, 6 April 2007 (UTC) (P.S. to the self-proclaimed master: when you use correct spelling and grammar, people will be more likely to take you seriously.)

Sonic Online
Isn't there some sorta Sonic Online thing that was created with Halo I find this really really weird.Themasterofwiki 17:48, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, it's a mod for Halo called "Sonic Adventure Online", I think. Gurko 12:24, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

How can I sigh up?Themasterofwiki 12:20, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

I'm not full on the details myself. Here's a site about it. Gurko 20:05, 16 March 2007 (UTC) I can't wait for Halo 3 but I don't think Hardcore shooters would wanna see cute lil' Sonic on Xbox-360.

Well to bad Sonic The Hedgehog is for Xbox 360 sorry to brake your heart.Themasterofwiki 18:18, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

Cocept Mobius- for archie, NOT THE GAMES!!!
why should we rely on concept mobius for the official info for the game articles whean their for Archie comics only? that's dosen't make sence. --Sonicobbsessed-The Self-Proclamed Ultamate Sonic Fan 22:32, 15 March 2007 (UTC)


 * /me laughs. Try visiting the site. &mdash;davidh.oz.au 01:59, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

what is this mobius thing and what is Sonic doing in Archie from America when he's Japanese?

About Mobius: Since when was this the real world Sonic was from? I don't remember EVER hearing any official bits about this, and the only things that ever had Sonic from a planet other than Earth was in the Archie crap and Sonic X. - Master Otenko
 * Mobius was Sonic's official home in the U.S. up until Sonic Adventure. The comics have since retconned it into being a future Earth.GrandMasterGalvatron 18:53, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
 * After actually going to this "Project Mobius" place, it has now become one of my favorite sites. That place is great. But my comment had little to do with the site... it was about some talk about the setting of a few sonic games. Masterotenko 18:16, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

WHOOPS! sorry, my bad, the site is'nt about archie...totaly about the games. i was to lazy to look at the site, it's pretty cool. someone should delete this talk section.--Sonicobbsessed 21:24, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

In accuracy
I may be young to be complaining about tjis, but, this character has been somethin i have been well knowleged to since a vey young age. and i noticed a laerge suppply of in accurate inforation on him. and no mention that officially, the english storyline is different from the american one, and that in japan there are two, one that was originally intended for more adult fans. without accounting for these differences, such as orriginally in england there were no fredom fighters, and Sally and the royal family were never shown. but that was origianlly to remove the personal relations from the main storyline, than the games and american comics. including the reason why sonic now keeps away from deep personal relations, i.e. wen Sally Acorn met her maker, but later on returned. Also the difference btween earth and mobius is more than just time. And the obvious feelings he does have for amythat he will likely never act apon, these were shown at some points in the games. These feelings though seemed to have developed more on earth. If given the chance there are many correction that most could make that olny the real fanatics (upto you if that a good or bad thing) could make. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Chaosa (talk • contribs) 11:24, 19 March 2007 (UTC).

I'll tell ya!
LuigiManiac, I know because it had been said by Sonic Team countless times! 207.74.196.20 16:59, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

LuigiManiac has a talk page if you want him personally... And they haven't said it "countless" times, really. May have been in some early Japanese manuals... I need to check this up. Gurko 17:03, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

Headlining Images
Now, I saw some guy replace all the 06 images with the Channel ones. I personally didn't think it was a bad idea. However, what I'd suggest is that the Shadow the Hedgehog images be used. The reason being is that those exact same models were used again in Rivals, and 06s models seem to be a one time occurrence. Not only that, but the Rivals artwork also has new models in the Shadow style for Metal Sonic, Silver, and Eggman Nega. I'd say the fact that Secret Rings abandoned the "realistic" style of Sonic the Hedgehog, Rivals reused the Shadow art and added to it, and Yogiro Ogawa (I think that's his name) himself said that the "realistic" style doesn't fit with Sonic is more than enough evidence for the time being that that style is gonna be the official standard for a good long while.

So my suggestions on main art would be:
 * 1. If character has official art from Rivals, use that as it's the latest.
 * 2. If character fails #1, use Shadow the Hedgehog art as that uses the same style.
 * 3. If character fails #2, use the Sonic Channel artwork as those are the latest renders available.
 * 4. if character fails #3, use the latest art released for that character.
 * 5. If character fails all of the above, use an in game screenshot of said character. This would apply mostly to super forms and older characters.  Though the super forms of old should use their in game final pose or something similar.

Comments, objections?GrandMasterGalvatron 15:07, 23 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Not a bad idea at all. Though where can we find Rivals artwork? Gurko 15:33, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

I think it's a great idea, this might just be the way to end these conflicts over the pictures. -- LuigiManiac |  Talk  15:36, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I have some of the Rivals art on my home PC which were take from flash files in the official websites. The art is also scattered across various Sonic message boards.  Also, you can check the SEGA FTP, or get it off the official sites yourself.  Lastly, I'm sure there's some pieces in Sonic, Shadow, and Metal's edit history.GrandMasterGalvatron 15:39, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

The thing is, Rivals uses Channel artwork, and the ones that aren't in Rivals are the first artworks they've ever got. Also, I think that artwork is better that game renders. Just my view. PD. I was the image editer. -Eriorguez
 * Correction. Rush uses Channel artwork. Rivals uses the Shadow models.GrandMasterGalvatron 22:11, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

Anyway, I think that the ambiguous art is better that the renders of a single game, and it allows usage of a single format to the largest number of characters.

EDIT: http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/3087/016mu3.png http://img86.imageshack.us/img86/1755/020tg2.png http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/9175/023vo6.png http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/3263/025nk1.png http://img243.imageshack.us/img243/237/031ge2.png http://img182.imageshack.us/img182/5880/064ad6.png http://img182.imageshack.us/img182/3203/065fw5.png http://img241.imageshack.us/img241/7058/066mr6.png http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/6198/067vi4.png http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/3991/068ey9.png http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/5554/069to2.png http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/8576/086lx8.png http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/7164/118ou1.png http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/2051/120mr0.png http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/2563/131ri2.png http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/4180/145dc7.png

There are more Channel artworks that ShTH renders. Don't go around lying just because you prefer some models. -Eriorguez
 * I never said there were less channel renders. You just mentioned the wrong game >_>GrandMasterGalvatron 18:39, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
 * looks at links* I mean the story art genius! XD Note that it's also official art for the game.  I could care less about the little card extras.GrandMasterGalvatron 19:51, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

History art, from a portable game, instead of the official art SEGA releases? And I guess Wikipedia is not themfz.com, nor you are that Blitz guy, so don't use something someone ripped out of a game with his tools for spiriting purpose, to use it in encyclopedic way. Also, shouldn't be better to have the most characters using the same format? It's more, comfortable. And I don't see why we should use renders from a game, specially story art, which is just something like a cutscene screenshot. No, let's use the official art, which is, erm, official, and has the same format for 23 characters, higher that the cast of any game, and using the same format for characters of a series is common practice in Wikipedia. If we have several official releases, we should pick the one that includes the most characters. Geez, picking an sprite sheet for using in Wikipedia, but editing to death Super Silver's name out of that page, despite filenames in the final game...
 * That was an example. I have the full renders for that game.  Also note it's the same style for Shadow the Hedgehog which means that the Chaotix have some as well in addition to Omega using his Heroes Art.  I also have permission to use that sheet so cut that blather.  In addition, the Super Silver thing was adherence to policy.  Those two halfwits outright refused to accept that same reasoning for Super Tails and Super Knuckles so I forced them to heed their words and do the same for Super Silver.  Just like I'm forcing these other two halfwits to heed their words and AfD/merge then entire series of Sonic articles.  There were common problems across the series and I'll be damned if one takes the fall for it and others get off for the same offense.

Anywho, I don't oppose using the Channel art either. I suggested the Shadow/Rivals art because it looks better, but now you have an X factor: Metal Sonic.GrandMasterGalvatron 21:52, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

2 or 3 months, and it'll get art.

Meh, why not use all: latest 3D render and latest 2D art, or in the case of the Babylon rogues, use both art styles? BTW, sorry if I went too far in my previous comment. Eriorguez
 * Oh you're fine. It's been me who's been flying off the handle lately.  Anywho, that was what I suggested: Those who have 3d art in this style should use it as the style has been used multiple times, and all others default to Channel art, and then so on and on.  Again, the use of the 3D art is a personal preference for a good visual appeal, but it more people wanna immediately default to the channel art then that's cool too.GrandMasterGalvatron 03:45, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

I've gone ahead and uploaded the Rivals art for Shadow, Silver, and Metal Sonic for a trial. If people think the channel art would be better then we can upload those....except Metal because he doesn't have one.GrandMasterGalvatron 19:34, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

I have already uploaded all Channel data. Metal will likely get art soon, now that it's over with the SA characters, and I guess we won't be getting Maria and Gerald art... User:Eriorguez

I say we should keep the Sonic the Hedgehog (2006) artwork. It has much better quality. --Coconutfred73 02:59, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
 * That may be, but it's only for one game, and the style has already been abandoned. The only exception I could see would be Omega, but I'll let Eriorguez make the final call.GrandMasterGalvatron 03:06, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

Then what else can we do? The only option is to use artwork for the most recent games as of now and that would be Sonic and the Secret Rings, but there is no recent artwork from Sonic and the Secret Rings for the characters in the game except Sonic. --Coconutfred73 03:13, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
 * That's true, but notice that Secret Rings abandoned the "realistic" style of 06 and went back to the Adventure Era looks. Even Eggman's his old' fat self again.  In addition, Yogiro Owaga (head of Secret Rings) has said that he personally doesn't like the 06 style and finds it unfitting.  Those seem to be good reasons not to use that style as the main images as it seems to be a one time thing.  I've already said my piece though so I'll leave it up to you lot.GrandMasterGalvatron 03:18, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

Omega is in it's pre-06 look again. Rivals cards are gret things... User:Eriorguez

Is this thing still going on? If it is I think we should use the Sonic Rivals art since it outdated the Sonic the Hedgehog (2006) art. --Coconutfred73 06:06, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

mario vs sonic
i think there should be a section about "mario vs sonic" in this article as it was such a big question among gamers in the 90's. or maybe even mario vs sonic as an article on its own telling stuff like how mario could win, how sonic could win, popularity and other stuff. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 64.218.92.64 (talk) 01:59, 29 March 2007 (UTC).


 * Not a bad idea; for now, I've added Mario to the See Also section. Maybe such a section would be better suited for the Sonic series article, though. Paul Haymon 22:41, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

I started a poll like that at school, only used all characters (Amy, Knuckles, Bowser, etc.) People tend to favor speed over people afraid of oranges.


 * Which character is afraid of oranges? -- Luigi Maniac  02:00, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

Overall template for all Sonic character articles
Looking over all of the Sonic character articles, sections are strung about every which way in comparison to each other. Sonic's doesn't get to his personality until section 4, but Knuckles digs right into that in section 1. I think its a little messy and an overall template should be created and adhered to be uniform. My suggestion is:

Start with the usual short description which mentions the most important aspect of the character (the character's basic description: like "Tails is a male anthropomorphic fox with 2 tails" but omit mention of his flight abilities and such since it is better covered in a later section), the character's debut date, and his/her role in games (like the purpose of Tails is to be Sonic's sidekick). Sonic's opening is a good example, thou some of the more detailed stuff could go into later sections (thou his strong association with Yuji Naka is good, how he was created by Naoto Oshima and all might go better in the design section, see below)

To keep it more encyclopedic, the first sections are about the real life and behind the scenes deals: start with design (who made the character and how, important notes, changes in design, voice actors, etc) then going into other things like importance to pop culture (like Sonic appearing in Macy's parade, cameos) and other real tidbits (like real stuff from other media - TV, comics, etc.).

the next sections then deal with in character stuff:

1 start with personality,

2 then character interactions (split by friends then rivals then enemies subsections and then go both in order of importance to the character in each - for example a character like Cream would start her friends with Cheese, then her mother Vanilla, then Amy, then Sonic...),

3 after that is other character stuff (like important events in the character's history, home, prophesies, and other need to know stuff),

4 finally ending with the abilities section (go in order of importance - for example Sonic would list his namesake speed first with each of that ability's variations like the Super Peel Out from Sonic CD, then his trademark spinning abilities and other variations thereof of that like the Spin Dash, Homing Attack, etc., then other natural abilities not related to those like his break dance influenced fighting, up next maybe (only MAYBE because including these could make it cluttered) his use of items (like special shields), then another maybe (still don't want clutter) in power ups (like bounce bracelet), then it finally concludes with transformations (Super Sonic, Darkspine Sonic).

the next sections deal with the character in other media (TV, comics, etc) listed in order of creation (which came first) it quickly points out what is similar (sort of like "see above" stuff), but mostly dwells on differences: start with personality then interactions finally abilities just like the above

or the other media section could just be incorporated into the bottom of each of the other sections, but make sure a distinction is made between the games and each of the other media titles (still go in order of which came first therefore games would still be first)

Man thats a lot of work isn't it. Cigraphix 20:49, 29 March 2007 (UTC)


 * It may be a lot of work, but it's a great Idea! I've actually thought of something like that myself.  If we can establish a good solid template, I'll apply the needed force XD
 * I am GrandMasterGalvatron, and I approve this proposal. *shot*GrandMasterGalvatron 20:56, 29 March 2007 (UTC)


 * "Start with the usual short description which mentions the most important aspect of the character (the character's basic description: like "Tails is a male anthropomorphic fox with 2 tails" but omit mention of his flight abilities and such since it is better covered in a later section)"
 * No - the Sonic characters' abilities are the most defining things about them, far more so than any personality traits. Lead sections on Wikipedia are supposed to summarise the entire article, so their skills should be one of the main things mentioned there.
 * "To keep it more encyclopedic, the first sections are about the real life and behind the scenes deals: start with design (who made the character and how, important notes, changes in design, voice actors, etc) then going into other things like importance to pop culture (like Sonic appearing in Macy's parade, cameos) and other real tidbits (like real stuff from other media - TV, comics, etc.).[...]the next sections then deal with in character stuff:"
 * I agree with this split into two broad sections. On Talk:Sonic the Hedgehog (series), I recently noted that there should be "a clear distinction between those two ways of looking at the games (as videogames, and as stories)". The same applies to the characters: out-of-universe information (original creation of the character; appearances in games, comics and cartoons) should be kept fairly separate from in-universe information (special abilities; origin stories...).
 * Obviously there's some blurring: it's not practical to have one out-of-universe section on Sonic the Comic ("The British Sonic the Comic was first published in 1993 by Fleetway...") as well as an entirely separate in-universe section on the same thing ("The British Sonic the Comic gave Sonic's home as Mobius and used the 'Kintobor' origin story established in Stay Sonic...") -- Nick RTalk 21:38, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

I do partially agree with you on the character abilites - if it is as defining as Sonic's that it is his namesake, it is worth mentioning - however when we get to other characters, like Knuckles, what is would it be? Knuckles has his punches, gliding, climbing, digging, treasure hunting, guarding the ME, his power, get the picture? If we list them all then we have to list them all for all the characters or risk making it look like its not a NPOV, and then whats the point of the abilites section? We should stick to namesakes or their most defining trait: Knuckles has 2 spiked knuckles on each hand, Tails has 2 tails, Sonic runs at supersonic speed, Amy chases Sonic, Shadow is a Sonic doppleganger with an added ability called Chaos Control, Rouge is a treasure hunter, Vector listens to his headphones, Espio can be invisible, Charmy... well uh hmm. Cigraphix 15:04, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

Charmy can fly. Just trying here. Untii next edit, SonicBoom95 18:38, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

MORE PEOPLE NEED TO TALK ABOUT THIS CAUSE I DONT WANT TO GO THRU ALL THE TROUBLE TO ONLY HAVE IT REVERTED A FEW MINUTES LATER!!! Anyway, a few changes I've thought of for my suggestion:

1 the 'Abilities' section should instead be divided into 'Strengths' and 'Weaknesses' like the Sonic Jam bios.

2 NickR is right, it would also be crazy to include that 'other media' section, all 'other media' sections should be put at the end of respective sections (personality with personality) in chronological order of creation  and easily distinguishable by seperate paragraphs or subsections, subsections only if they can be done without looking cluttered—which i kinda doubt (i wasnt thinking about non-game universes when i put my original idea together and kinda tacked stuff in, this is fixing it). I also think this should be applied to all sections: for example the design section of Robotnik should deal with game, tv, etc, media (he was changed so drastically for some of them) - start exclusivly on the game version of 'Botnik and his Adventure, STH06 redesigns, then AOSTH (i think that came b4 the next), SatAM, comics, Underground, SX (of course fix any incorrectly listed out of order)

3 If it can be stated vaguely enough to still be a summary, perhaps things like Tails flight should be mentioned in the lead section/intro (but only if it is RELATED AND IMPORTANT to that defining trait): 'Tails can use his two tails for aerial mobility,' 'Knuckles can use his spiked fists in powerful punches.' But nothing like 'Tails can spin his tails like a helicopter to fly or push himself along the ground for super speed to keep up with Sonic'- details of how he does it and what he uses it for are better for lower sections. On the other hand, Cream's ability to fly is not as important to her as her relationship to Cheese, which is their defining trait, so her flight does not need mentioning in the lead section (also of note is her mother Vanilla, who is also not important to know about the character, nor is character weight, height, or age which are better off in the info under the main pic, or the 'cream cheese' pun which should go in the design section).

OTHERS PLEASE BRING THEIR THOUGHTS IN PLEASE!!!! Cigraphix 03:52, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

Ok how bout a working version:

Character

Lead Section blah blah (look at what i wrote earlier about changes to lead) with pic and info as they are now

History (non-fictional)
This section is about real life History/Popularity/Influence on Pop Culture/Cameos/Real Stuff This section is the hardest to come up with a name for, the real section is hard cause each character is so different but IT MUST BE UNIFORM (i'd fit in well in the military wouldn't i? Ten Hut)

Design
Sonic Games

Sonic was created in 1991 by... redesigned in 1998 by... (games are first cause character existed here first in this example, if character existed in other universe first then that universe listed first followed by appearences in other media in chronological order)

Sonic the Hedgehog (TV show)

Sonic's design was slightly altered... mostly talk about differences as compared to original-in this case the games version (also i think this TV show existed before others, if not just fix)

Sonic the Hedgehog (Archie Comic)

same (i know the comics came before the Saturday morning show even thou they were based off the show, otherwise the Rotor/Boomer and Sally's hair thing wouldn't exist)

Adventures of Sonic (TV show)

stuff

Sonic the Comic (Fleetway) ...

Sonic the Hedgehog (Movie OVA)

over and over

Sonic X (TV show)

one more

Other (Books etc)

if this section even exists

just copy and paste this subsection format into other sections where applicable and continue to mostly talk about differences as compared to original-in this case the games version

Voice Actors
paste subsection order (games>STH TV>AOSTH>etc)

Associated Songs
its fine the way it is or paste subsection order if needed somehow (games>STH TV>AOSTH>etc)

Personality
paste subsection order (games>STH TV>AOSTH>etc)

Interactions with other characters
Friends

closest relationships first, omit unimportant ones (for example: Rouge doesn't seem that important to Sonic, but she's important to Knuckles as a rival and Shadow as a friend), do the different versions sub sections as sub sections to the individual character sections (so for Sonic it goes Tails section; relationship with Tails in games, in STH TV, AOSTH, etc, then Knuckles section and so on

one more thing, info from sections like "Sonic's love life" or "Sonic vs Knuckles" belong in the "Character interactions" section for the character it is about

Rivals

same as above

Enemies

same as above

Abilities
Strengths

paste subsection order (games>STH TV>AOSTH>etc) also list in order of importance (Sonic has speed then spinning attacks and so on ending with transformations), omit one time ablities, level ups and power ups (i'm iffy on the Light Speed Dash since it started as level up but seems to have become standard, put with speed if needed), put related ablities together (spin dash related to spin attacks)

Weaknesses

same as above

History (fictional)
paste subsection order (games>STH TV>AOSTH>etc) AND only list important in-universe history -> stuff like how Sonic met his closest friends or enemies, how Shadow was created, how Sonic and Eggman have been going at it since before the games started, but do it in chronological order (to the best of ability in respect to plotholes): Sonic was battleing Eggman before the first game, he met Tails in STH2 and started using Super transformation... learned Chaos Control from Shadow in SA2... etc. Just please do not just summerize every single game a character has appeared in (basically think about how an event impacts the future of the series, the series doesn't reflect back on individual games too much so be strict)

Then all the "See Also" "References" and "Links" stuff to finish it off

I like this format, it starts with the real stuff then slowly segues into character stuff ending with how the above affects (in universe) events, but i like to hear others' opinions too. Cigraphix 04:53, 18 April 2007 (UTC) edits Cigraphix 02:27, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
 * I noticed many characters (like Knuckles) have little to no nonfictional info, I did a test reorg on Sonic, Tails and Knuckles - if anyone doesn't like it just fix it - if it is liked I'll look into fixing them further for uniformity and doing other characters Cigraphix 02:27, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

Copyedit
Can someone copyedit this paragraph, or else remove it if it's unneeded? It's the final paragraph in the Abilities section:

Upon going under extreme stress and anger in Sonic X, Sonic transforms into "Dark Super Sonic", an ascended form of Sonic going out of control. Powered by hatred and anger, this form has all the abilities of Super Sonic, but in an evil way. Surprisingly, Sonic needs no Chaos Emeralds to do this (although he was surrounded by the Meterax's Artficial Emeralds, which may of being the fuel of Dark Super Sonic, combined with his anger). Dark Sonic is similar to Fleetway's Sonic the Comic ' s Super Sonic. The difference aside from being able to be Dark Super Sonic without Chaos Emeralds is that as Evil Super Sonic, Sonic has no control whatsoever. As Dark Super Sonic, he can control himself from destroying an ally or friend.

I'd do it myself, but I don't watch Sonic X, and so my edit might not be accurate. Thanks. Paul Haymon 22:38, 1 April 2007 (UTC)


 * I've removed it entirely. There are many bits of the article that need condensing because they go into far too much detail about one particular aspect of the character, featured in only one of his appearances. (Dare I use the word fancruft?) The article should really focus on more general summaries and overviews. -- Nick RTalk 19:20, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

Hydrophobia/Abilities
Hmm, I'm not sure what to do with these sections. Abilities mentions Sonic's fear of water, but hydrophobia isn't exactly what I'd call an "ability". However, the Hydrophobia section is not very well written, and seems a bit unencyclopedic, as well as out of place. I'd like to merge the two somehow, but I'm not sure how. Input? Thanks. Paul Haymon 22:47, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

Sonic DOESN'T fear water, he just can't swim. If he had hydrophobia, why do almost all first stages take place on the coastline. Sonic likes the ocean, acording to SEGA. Eriorguez 15:05, 2 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Okay, that's news to me, and beside the point. What about merging the sections? Paul Haymon 04:29, 3 April 2007 (UTC)


 * But wait a minute...he likes the ocean YET he can't swim...anyone hear the word IRONY being yelled out at this? Mialover730 08:14, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Yes, yes I can. --Luigifan 11:11, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

I removed the section entirely several days ago, but it has since been restored. So I've removed it again, for the same reasons as before: for a Wikipedia article, it goes into far too much detail about this one, extremely minor, aspect of the character. It really didn't help the article. It also wasn't very well-written: how many times must he have said "Water? Why does it have to be water?" in the cartoons in order for it to count as "usually"? :-) -- Nick RTalk 19:02, 3 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Well, thanks, and thanks for the other edit also. Paul Haymon 00:30, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

Removed the "Destiny" section... AGAIN
It's pointless, and is simply there for people to submit their wacked out theories that contain huge amounts of speculation, stuff without basis that they just made up, and simple inaccuracies. -Chao9999 06:40, 6 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Actually, it's there to mention how Sonic has fulfilled various prophecies throughout the games (ex. Angel Island Mural, Iblis Trigger, Legendary Blue Hedgehog, etc.) I'm putting it back in.  --Luigifan 14:44, 6 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Exactly. Chao9999, please stop with this attitude of yours. You seem to think your POV on the story is the only correct one.--HellCat86 14:46, 6 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Oh, not hellcat again. The last time you criticized me Hellcat, I believe it was because I removed the part in this same section that stated that Sonic is the "destined controller of chaos". Back off with the pointless insults,and listen:

1. Almost everything stated in that section either doesn't contribute to the article, can be found somewhere else, or is speculation. 2. The thing CONTAINS speculation/fanon. 3. Only two prophecies/destinies have ever even been associated with him, the S3 mural and the Secret Rings book. That's hardly enough to actually constitute a sub-section. 4. Besides the two things listed above, the only other things seem completely pointless. The Sonic X one is simply "Cosmo was told Sonic pwns", and the Tikal one doesn't even have anything to do with fulfilling anything. Not only this, but it's breeding grounds for speculation, and "legend building", such as the aforementioned "controller of chaos" crap, or the fanon (if even) "Knuckles initially misread the mural" line. The section is pointless, and if you can find a good counterarguement to my above listed reasons, go ahead, but if not, don't put the section back in, I'll hide it for now. And seriously, Hellcat, what the crap? -Chao9999 06:03, 7 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Pointless insults? Hardly. You're arrogant and that's a fact. Whilst I agree some of the more recent additions like the Sonic X part don't belong, most are accurate and not fanon. We have proof for them in game stories, manuals, etc. However, that doesn't seem to be good enough for you and you've shown that yet again by adding code to hide the section. Stop acting like you're the highest authority in the land. Wikipedia is supposed to be a collaboration, not one person making sweeping decisions.--HellCat86 16:08, 7 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Wait, since when did the Sonic X prophecy simply amount to "Cosmo was told Sonic pwns"? Last I heard, Cosmo had come to Sonic's planet because of a "legendary blue hedgehog" prophecy, similar to the one in Sonic and the Secret Rings.  --Luigifan 16:42, 7 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Look, I don't know why you get on your high horse when someone says something is outdated, especially when it's a subsection that lists almost pointless info Hellcat, but stop. It's against the rules to insult someone, and it's out of wiki-ettiquette to have a subsection that lists info that is more than trivial, and simply ridiculous. That whole legendary blue hedgehog thing in Sonic X seems to have come out of their *****, seriously. "OMFG SEEK OUT A BLUE HOG THAT WE NEVER MET NOR HAVE REASON TO KNOW ABOUT". Plus, the one that talks about Chaos doesn't even have anything to actually do with fulfilling anything. "Tikal showed Sonic a picture of a baddie on it that was drawn by cave-rat-things". Woopty fricken doo. What's that have to do with fulfilling prophecies and destinies? Furthermore, when did Tikal say anything about stopping Chaos? "He must be sealed inside the Master Emerald NOW!" isn't "Sonic stop Chaos". Plus, the "Iblis Trigger" thing doesn't fullfill any prophecies, unless you blame Sonic for getting killed. The meaning behind the SA mural was never explained, nor was the Sonic 3 mural or the Secret Rings legend. Even though the latter two seem to be the only "fullfillments" worth mentioning, the fact that there are ONLY two, and they are completely pointless to list (at least there) seems to completely void any usefullness of such a subsection. If Sonic fullfills a prophecy, he did it in a game, so leave it there. Don't make a subsection that doesn't mean squat. The Links from LoZ fullfill a prophecies like, all the time. Heck, even the original Final Fantasy's plot revolved around solving a prophecy, so don't make a special subsection that gives special recognition for TWO (OMG MOR TAN WUN) prophecies Sonic has fulfilled, especially when they are so pointless. If you want characters fullfilling prophecies, play the Legacy of Kain series. Also, randomly labelling me as someone who believes myself to be the highest authority for no reason and firing off even more insignificant and rude insults like a machine gun isn't exactly helping your credibility Hellcat. Lay off the insults, lay off the crap and focus on the actual article and not how much you hate someone just because they challenge your opinion. -Chao9999 05:27, 8 April 2007 (UTC)
 * I do? The only other time I've really clashed with you was over the issue of Black Doom as Shadow's biological parent which because Black Doom never flat out said "Shadow, I'm ya daddy!" you refused to accept. I don't really see what that or this has to do with being outdated. Fact is, there is alot of cases in recent games where Sonic's actions are part of some legend or prophecy and that's why the section was started. It wasn't just put there because fans said "Hey, wouldn't it be cool if Sonic was some great foretold hero?", it's there because it's actual relevant information pertaining to the character which the game points out. I'm sorry, but as far as I can see the problem here is that you don't like this now often occuring angle and thus the article shouldn't be highlighting it.--HellCat86 15:47, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

That's not it, it's that there's not enough info to warrant a subsection, and even then, it's trivial, if not less. Sonic has fulfilled two prophecies, neither of which have been elaborated on. Plus, there is, as I said before, the large amount of speculation that people like to throw in there that they use so much they think it's fact, such as the "Knuckles read the pikshur rong to belev Eggman is good, but relized teh truth" thing, that's entirely fancruft, and, if you DESPERATELY want to prove me wrong, then cite it, otherwise it's fancruft, and doesn't belong there. And in regards to the Black Doom thing, there is no reason to believe that Black Doom is Shadow's biological parent simply because Shadow has Black Dooms DNA. We don't know how much was used, what it was used for, or how it was used. Shadow could've been a hedgehog that they kidnapped and drowned in Black Dooms blood, Shadow could've been created by cloning black dooms horns, anything's possible. And no matter what, unless Black Doom fathered him, which, as we know, he DIDN'T, Shadow is not Black Doom's son. It's the same situation here, in that people are ASSUMING that Knuckles even SAW the mural. Heck, for all we know, Eggman simply came up to him and flat out said "Sonic is evil I'm good lets kill him or something". Games of that age, unless RPGs, weren't very good with story. If you really MUST list such pointless things, put it in the trivia, or better yet, in a Sonic Wiki, AKA a place where fancruft is acceptable, as well as useless trivia. Besides, last I checked, often isn't "did twice". Just like the LAST time this subsection was deleted, way back in November if I remember correctly, this subsection spawns fancruft and is entirely pointless. By the way, stop doing that whole "you just don't like ****, and because of that, you won't agree with it". It's annoying. -Chao9999 03:14, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
 * I have cited a source. I keep saying I'm near certain the Japanese manual confirms Knuckles misreading the mural. As soon as someone provides a copy we can put it to rest (it was a few years before Wikipedia that I read a translation of it)--HellCat86 03:38, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

Even still, until something official is up, that part should be removed, but still, the entire subsection just has no reason to exist. If it's really that important, then put it in trivia. -Chao9999 07:12, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

Hmph. I could have sworn I nuked that section myself. it's entirely fancruft and speculation. NONE of it is really citeable. There has only been one definite prophecy and that was in Secret Rings. Yes, I would discount the mural in S3K because it's just a picture and is left open to interpretation. The "Iblis Trigger" was not a prophecy. It was a lie Mephiles made beacause he was too stupid to just travel back in time to when Elise was killed. Everything else is complete and utter fancruft and has no place here. Likewise, you don't have any proof that Shadow is Doom's son. Infact, there's proof against it. Mostly the scene where you see him created in a tube. Shadow is most likely a test tube baby of sorts, but all you can put here is that some of Doom's DNA was involved. How much, we don't know. Also, even so, his species is still officially listed as "Hedgehog". NOT "Transgenic Hedgehog". I think that's all that needs to be said.GrandMasterGalvatron 18:32, 9 April 2007 (UTC)


 * I've already covered the issue of the Hidden Palace prophecy. As soon as someone can find a link to a translation of the Japanese manual(s) we can put this to rest. The Black Doom thing shouldn't be discussed here, however, just briefly- I'd never said Shadow was Doom's naturally born child. My argument was that because he was made from Doom's genetic material, Black Doom was his biological 'father'.--HellCat86 19:12, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Why has it been removed again? Last I can see, we have two people for it and two against. That's a deadlock, not a "Yes, remove"--HellCat86 20:23, 9 April 2007 (UTC)


 * You haven't actually done anything to protect, like cite reasons that it's up. Plus, when someone like GMG, who seems pretty well versed in Wiki-ettiquette, says that something doesn't fit, he's usually right. We've provided (more than) enough reason to have it removed, you haven't provided anything that defends it. -Chao9999 21:44, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Hmm, Chao has a point. However, I still think that it should remain up, as long as it contains stuff that actally has official sources.  If any fancruft pops up, we just revert it.  --Luigifan 22:31, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

It seems though, that the only thing listed in that subsection that has an actual source and is relevant is the Secret Rings legend, which is ridiculously pointless to place there, just place it in his character bio and the subsection won't have ANY info in it. Problem solved. -Chao9999 07:12, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

I'm sorry, this is ridiculous. The information isn't fancruft. There were errors in early versions but those have been removed. Right now this seems more like a circle of elitist Sonic fans who want all the articles in line with their views.--HellCat86 00:39, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

You haven't provided any reason to keep the subsection except for "nuh-uh". The facts are that not enough information pertains to the subsection, there isn't enough information to warrant a subsection, and that the subsection itself is almost completely pointless. Calling everybody elitist and refferring to them in such ways isn't gonna help you, especially when we're simply sticking to Wikipedia's rules. You've got nothing to back yourself up, and I do, face it. If you can't, I really don't care, as long as you don't break Wikipedia's rules, that's fine, so is breaking my personal opinions on Sonic, I pretty much don't care (since I don't actually speculate, just stick with in game info), as long as you don't say something that I know is false. -Chao9999 10:04, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

Ok, apparently nobody even cares about the subsection anymore (or so your lack of giving a crap leads me to believe. Removing. -Chao9999 07:57, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
 * You're a wonderful human being. Care to explain why I don't give a crap? Maybe I don't always have time to work on Wikipeda.--HellCat86 12:26, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm incredibly arrogant, and an overall unpleasant man, I mean, three days to type a simple message? I DESERVE a hate message that came outta nowhere, especially from someone desperately trying to preserve a subsection that has absolutely nothing defending it besides the fact that it's pretty much only truth (last time I checked). So, without further ado, oh great being that churns the insults, will it be meaningless insults, or actual defense of your subsection? -Chao9999 09:53, 19 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Wow, this topic is pretty much dancing all over the "flamewar" threshold... Could we please hold back the personal attacks, please?  --Luigifan 12:29, 19 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Actually, it looks like a "holy war" has erupted over here... Oh, dear...  --Luigifan 12:44, 19 April 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm personally not eager for any kind of war. I just get very annoyed with the way Chao9999 behaves, acting like all the Sonic articles have to be in line with their interpretation and if not you're obviously just some idiot who's trying to insert fancruft. It's kind of hard to defend the section when you're dealing with someone who has basically already made up their mind--HellCat86 15:27, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

I don't know why you're so mad at me for OBEYING THE RULES. -Chao9999 03:29, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

...So you gonna actually defend the subsection's existance, or what? -Chao9999 20:40, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

...Apparently not... -Chao9999 04:31, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
 * I gave up. I'm sick of butting heads with you. I've tried to explain the significance and why it's worth highlighting, but you won't have it. No point going round in circles.--HellCat86 12:01, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

It doesn't sound like you understand why I don't want that subsection there. It's simply too small to be of any significance, not just for my personal tastes but also for Wiki rules. -Chao9999 22:41, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

"Ryan Drummond 2007-present" in cartoons?
I'm not sure if this is true or not, but somebody put in the voice actors part, under the subheading "cartoons" Ryan Drummond 2007-present. I did not know Ryan Drummond (Sonic's old voice actor) provides Sonic's voice in a new cartoon. This may just be a mistake, can someone please clarify this so we know weather to delete it or not? - some guy April 6 10:58 am

No. There is no way that wanna be Sonic voice actor will ever voice in the Sonic X anime. It was just some Drummond Fanboy. I'll revert it if not before.


 * It was me, and I'm not a Drummond fanboy. I was actually making a revert to the page because I felt that it had been vandalized (I think I was re-inserting the "Prophecies and Destiny" section), and I must simply have failed to notice any other changes to the article in the meantime.  In other words, I reverted the page without checking what the **** I was actually doing, and the result was the accidential insertion of Drummond fancruft.  My bad.  --Luigifan 16:47, 7 April 2007 (UTC)


 * For the record, I've never been able to notice any significant changes between Sonic voiced by Ryan Drummond and Sonic voiced by Jason Griffith. --Luigifan 16:48, 7 April 2007 (UTC)
 * The only difference I ever noticed was that Sonic's personality seems a bit more like his bios make him out to be. -Chao9999 05:28, 8 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Griffith sounds more like the bios? Wouldn't that be a good thing?  --Luigifan 12:46, 19 April 2007 (UTC) In my opinion, the Sonic X voice actor sounds less squeaky and more serious. Only marginally though (PayneXKiller)

Age section?
Is the Age section really needed in this article, to me it seems pointless and uninformitive, just stating Sonics age in the middle of it.--Brago-77 17:21, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

Yes. It is needed in every article. --Coconutfred73 20:09, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

I think you misunderstood me, I mean the Age section of the article, not in the template.--Brago-77 20:17, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

If u mean that subsection between personality and home then i agree, kill it Cigraphix 23:07, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

New picture
Do you like the new picture I added of sonic. The previous was of bad quality, however the one I uploaded has some bad anti-aliasing so if someone could fix it or upload a better version... - Titan602 09:23, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

Main picture of the article debates
I'm seeing a lot of picture replacements of the main artwork of this article. What artwork should we use period? --Coconutfred73 20:13, 11 April 2007 (UTC)


 * I personally like the one with Sonic running in Sonic 2006, but I also like the one as of today. 206.66.217.143 22:03, 11 April 2007 (UTC)


 * We could use mine (the one with sonic running) or the other one from the 2006 game. I could upload a better quality version of that in PNG!

That would be good. --Coconutfred73 20:00, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

Sonic Movie
Does anyone know if there is going to be a Sonic movie for theaters?Themasterofwiki 12:29, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

There was a Sonic movie a little while back, but I've never heard of one for theaters. User:Mathmagician11

No, that satam cgi movie was just a hoax. And that other "movie" wasn't a sonic movie it was a 2-part pilot episode for a japanese series that got incredibly bad ratings and was never made into a full series. Though presonally i liked it. MindWraith 08:34, 4 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Please explain this two-parter, I've never heard of it...? -- RattleMan 08:37, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

Sigh, i've had to explain it alot. It is also known as the sonic OVA, sonic team sold it in the western world as a sonic "movie", to try and milk some money out of the failed series. MindWraith 01:03, 6 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Eh, I've seen that before then. I have both the two-parter on my harddrive and the "Sonic Movie" DVD. Your wording just confused me. =P -- RattleMan 10:22, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

I know about the Anmie one I've seen it but Im talking about one for theaters if your looking for the Sonic The Movie anmie go to this page Sonic OVA to learn more.Themasterofwiki 17:54, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

Sonic team doesn't have enough money to make a full movie, and with sonic's umm, slump in popularity lately, it's unlikely SEGA will sponsor to have one made. MindWraith 05:44, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

LIAR! Sonic is still extremly populer and how come things like Spongebob and Aqua Teen Hungerforce and make movies they don't have twice the money Sonic has!

The differance being that a sonic movie would likely be in CGI, which is much more expensive than 2D. MindWraith 23:41, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

Well what if they made a Sonic X movie?Themasterofwiki 12:26, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

Sonic's Middle Name
It's not been discussed here, but the "The" in Sonic The Hedgehog starts with a capital "T" as it is Sonic's middle name, and not the adjective term "the" (this was Sega's way of copyrighting the name)So the topic is incorrect. Guru Larry 23:43, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

Usage of official art as standard pic.
With the confirmed upcoming Metal Sonic artwork, there are already 25 characters with that art. Shouldn't we try to aim to a standard format and use those pics instead of renders of various games? Eriorguez 00:56, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

No. The ones we have now are fine. --Coconutfred73 01:10, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

Unless it's from a game and not Sonic Channel. --Coconutfred73 01:11, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

article name
Ok. What is the deal with the "t" in "the"? Is it Sonic The Hedgehog, or Sonic the Hedgehog. As I've heard that the former has citations to back itself up, I want a good reason for keeping the latter.GrandMasterGalvatron 17:05, 25 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Sonic would like to send you all a message, straight from SA2: -- RattleMan 03:17, 26 May 2007 (UTC)


 * It doesn't matter. Our policy states "the" should be in lowercase in article titles. I am moving the article back to its correct name. We don't care about trademarks, our policy and guidelines override them. -- ReyBrujo 03:34, 26 May 2007 (UTC)
 * "The" is the characters official middle name. That means that it should be "Sonic The Hedgehog" since it is a proper noun. The current name is wrong, and would be like having the article on David Alan Grier be at "David alan Grier". TJ Spyke 03:52, 26 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Its not about whether its Sonic's middle name or not its about capitalization policy. See bell hooks. If the policy enforcement department was doing its job, the bell hooks would either be Bell hooks or Bell Hooks, but its neither. Why? Presumably because that's the way bell hooks writes her name. Given that Sonic The Hedgehog is the name that has been trademarked, then that's what WP should call him. End of story.Eyedubya 06:59, 26 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Incorrect. We have a policy to ignore the opinions of stupid marketing divisions. Bell Hooks is a real person and her name really is written wrong. Sonic the Hedgehog is a trademark, and just like poor Invader ZIM Zim, doesn't get to have an opinion on why his name gets to contradict normal grammar rules. So please, keep it at the lowercase t. --tjstrf talk 07:05, 26 May 2007 (UTC)
 * That doesn't make sense at all. If that's the way it's trademarked, then why use anything different?GrandMasterGalvatron 19:29, 26 May 2007 (UTC)
 * BeCAUSE AdV3RTizer5 rite really odDly at times, and we don't like spattering our articles with random words in ALLCAPS. Just because NOKIA thinks they're important enough to be the most prominent word in every sentence in which they are mentioned (or possibly just use allcaps because it looks better alongside Japanese characters than small letters) doesn't mean Wikipedia should. Same thing here. --tjstrf talk 20:32, 26 May 2007 (UTC)
 * The use of the 'Royal we' from someone who's got such radical anti-capitalist views is a delicious irony! Clearly not everyone one of 'us' agrees on who 'we' are. Eyedubya 08:28, 27 May 2007 (UTC)


 * "Radical anti-capitalist"? Me? Now that's a new one. Besides, to use anything but the plural pronoun there would be to claim that "I" establish Wikipedia's style policy, so your smug little attempted jibe there falls flat on its face.
 * Now do you have any real arguments, or do you just plan to stall for backup by insulting me some more? --tjstrf talk 08:50, 27 May 2007 (UTC)
 * The insults are all in your inferences, not my intentions, don't take yourself quite so seriously! If my humour falls flat for you, I suggest this is cultural differences at work - irony doesn't work in all cultures, even English-speaking ones. But since you wish to engage on the matter of plural pronons, there are alternatives to those you suggest. How's about, for example, the phrase 'some editors prefer' rather than an all-encompassing 'we'? Clearly, the fact that this discussion about Sonic's name (along with many others of a similar ilk) is occurring between WP editors is testament to the fact that 'we' disagree about many things on WP. Nothing I'm suggesting is about 'ownership', that's your issue, not mine. You may have been here longer than I have, but I've yet to see anything that excludes newbies like me from the WP community of editors, that is, the collective entity you invoke with your use of the word 'we' ... unless you're referring to some WP in-group? Again, please assume good faith with a dash of humour when reading. As for 'arguments', I've been making them all along. :) Eyedubya 11:15, 27 May 2007 (UTC)
 * This is the most fucking retarded argument I've ever seen. Great job, ignoring the fact that basic principles in the English language tell you to use a lowercase "the" in titles. Go back to first grade, guys. Anyone saying "it's trademarked that way!!!" can have fun starting an edit war over moving the PlayStation 3 article to "PLAYSTATION(R)3". --Guess Who 03:59, 28 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Nah, who gives a rats about PlayStation? That really IS kids stuff! Eyedubya 04:08, 28 May 2007 (UTC)
 * I second that, and will gladly commend you, Tuesday. The name was trademarked by SEGA OF AMERICA. Not only does SOA have a bad history of MISTAKES (Sonic Mars *shudder*), but it's a company, not the official grammar school of grammary. While T is in the trademark, it is neither a proper noun nor the first letter. Just because some Japanese guys (the same guys behind SA2's english massacre) say it's T, doesn't mean that it's T. There's only one T, AND HE PITIES THE FOO WHO FINDS THIS A REASONABLE DEBATE! -Chao9999 10:40, 29 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Since when did debates about naming of articles have to be reasonable?Eyedubya 11:12, 29 May 2007 (UTC)
 * >and just like poor Invader ZIM Zim, doesn't get to have an opinion on why his name gets to contradict normal grammar rules.
 * Or, more importantly, just like poor NiGHTS Nights. :) But does anyone else get the feeling that this discussion should get pride of place in Lamest edit wars ever? The infamous conversation about images is already listed there... -- Nick RTalk 13:20, 1 June 2007 (UTC)
 * This is not like Zim or PlayStation 3. Since "The" is officially Sonic's middle name, it IS a proper noun and should be capitalized. People whose only argument is about unrelated stuff like companies putting their trademark in ALLCAPS need something better. Would you want Bill Clinton's name written as "William jefferson Clinton"? What if somebody notable enough to have an article here also had "The" as their legal middle name? Would you demand that it be "the" instead of "The"? TJ Spyke 21:29, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Source on "The" as being his middle name, or else you're just pulling that out of your ass. Yeah, I'm being blunt because this is retarded. --Guess Who 02:18, 6 June 2007 (UTC)


 * This is a stupid debate. I don't actually care either way but here is what somebody put down as the citation in a previous edit to the article: Steven L. Kent's book, The Ultimate History of Video Games: The Story Behind the Craze that Touched our Lives and Changed the World, published by Prima Publishing, ISBN 0-7615-3643-4, located in Chapter 23, the quote: "the 't' in 'Sonic the Hedgehog' is capitalized. Sega marketing wizard Al Nilsen had the "the" registered as Sonic's middle name." I haven't looked at this myself but it does violate normal English rules about such things. Also STH06 continues this by having all appearences of "the" in character names capitalized, including Shadow's (check this YouTube movie ripped from the game:, at around 35 seconds in the GUN agent on radio calls Shadow by full name "Shadow The Hedgehog"). Why Sega, why did you have to cause this inane arguement? Cigraphix 23:29, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Another thing (God why am I still going on about this), WP:MOS-TM emphasized legibility, that is why we write Adidas instead of adidas. But compromises have been made for iPod and eBay because they do not compromise legibility. The only mention of not capitalizing like a trademark was that we should not capitalize a whole word, but there was nothing written about capitalizing the first letter of a word in a trademark that English rules say should not be. Form a consensus quick because this is just so lame. Cigraphix 23:54, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Anyone with access to the internet can go check the USPTO and see that the only trademarks for Sonic's name have the ENTIRE NAME in all caps (SONIC THE HEDGEHOG), both live and dead trademarks. --Guess Who 08:51, 9 June 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm just here because I just read the note in The Ultimate History of Video Games and wanted to see how Wikipedia had the name. Either I'm looking at a different USPTO search, or Guess Who's argument is bogus. The USPTO search returns everything in all-uppercase, even eBay and iPod. Personally, I agree with "The", since you wouldn't title it "Sonic bob Hedgehog" if the middle name were "Bob". The argument from rules for the grammatical article "the" doesn't apply to the proper name "The". Anomie 01:02, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
 * How do Rivals, Secret Rings and other recent Sonic games have it? Can it be established that Sega is only using the cap T in the recent games? Cigraphix 02:26, 13 June 2007 (UTC)
 * It's true, everything on USPTO is in all caps, which is why the claim that it was trademarked as "Sonic The Hedgehog" cannot be verified. I don't see how "The Ultimate History of Video Games" can overrule actual trademark records, which lack proper capitalization. --Guess Who 08:35, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

So then why is "The" capitalized in the linked scenes for Shadow's middle name and only Shadow's middle name. Princess Elise the Third and Mephiles the Dark do not, but Sonic The Hedgehog and Shadow The Hedgehog do. Shouldn't a note of this be made at the very least?

more pics

 * Can someone please put a pic of darkspine sonic ON HIS ARTICLE. Supah kid 17:05, 22,june 2007

It's not really necessary, Darkspine only appeared in one game and doesn't add much to the article. His picture goes better at super transformation. Gurko 12:23, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

Sonic
is sonic 15 or 16, if he was born june 23, 1991 he is 16 but why is he 15? Ydna21 20:23 June 25 2007

Sonic was created 16 years ago in real life, but "in his universe" he is 15. Sorta like how Bart Simpson has existed for like 20 years but has remained 10 years old Cigraphix 19:29, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Also, June 23, 1991 is technically his debut date, not his birth date Cigraphix 19:51, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

Anthropomorphic and Humanoid?
From what I understand, a character being anthropomorphic does not require that they are also humanoid. Anthropomorphism is the attribution of uniquely human characteristics and qualities to nonhuman things. This can be anything including intellegence and speech. Humanoid means merely having a body like a human: stand on 2 legs, 2 arms, etc. So a character like Sonic seems to fit both anthropomorphic and humanoid. Meanwhile, a character like Bambi is anthropomorphic but is not humanoid because he retains his deer shaped body. Cigraphix 14:51, 29 June 2007 (UTC)