Talk:Sonny Boy Williamson I

Renaming
Opening up discussion on the (previously undiscussed) article renaming of Sonny Boy Williamson I to Sonny Boy Williamson (1914–1948). Personally, I'm less opposed to this renaming than I am to the renaming of SBW II as SBW (died 1965) - I think because there is widespread acceptance in the sources that SBW II is an appropriate name for the person born Aleck/Alex Miller. This, the original, SBW, is known variously as John Lee "Sonny Boy" Williamson (he used his real surname), or SBW I, or by his dates of birth and death. (SBW II's year of birth remains uncertain.) So, I can live with this retitling, even though it's not consistent with the other one - I think consistency in these matters is grossly overrated when we should be considering what makes most sense to readers. I'd welcome other views. Ghmyrtle (talk) 19:55, 13 March 2015 (UTC)
 * As Yogi Berra said (not to be confused with Yogi Bear), "It's like deja-vu all over again":
 * Article titles should follow WP policy (see WP:Article titles). WP:RECOGNIZABLE includes "Wikipedia prefers the name that is most commonly used (as determined by its prevalence in reliable English-language sources) as such names will be the most recognizable and the most natural."  A quick review of RSs shows the following used:
 * Sonny Boy Williamson I: Dahl (AllMusic bio), Gordon (Muddy Waters bio), Komara (Blues Encyclopedia), Barry (How to Play the Harmonica), Cummings-Yeats (Exploring Chicago Blues: Inside the Scene, Past and Present), Romano (Big Boss Man), Stanton (The Tombstone Tourist: Musicians), Yerxa (Harmonica For Dummies), Millward (Changing Times: Music and Politics in 1964), Carroll (When Your Way Gets Dark: A Rhetoric of the Blues), Dance (Stormy Monday: The T-Bone Walker Story)
 * John Lee Williamson a.k.a. Sonny Boy Williamson I: Devi (The Language of the Blues: From Alcorub to Zuzu), Morris (Billboard), Tracy (Write Me a Few of Your Lines: A Blues Reader), Obrecht (Rollin' and Tumblin': The Postwar Blues Guitarists)
 * John Lee Sonny Boy Williamson I: Glover (Blues with a Feeling: The Little Walter Story)
 * Sonny Boy Williamson (No. 1) (John Lee Williamson): O'Neil (Blues Hall of Fame)
 * John Lee "Sonny Boy" Williamson: O'Neil (Blues Hall of Fame uses both), Gioia (Delta Blues), Palmer (Deep Blues), Gillett (Sound of the City), Dicaire (Blues Singers: Biographies of 50 Legendary Artists of the Early 20th Century), Herzhaft (Encylcopedia of the Blues), Humphrey (Chess Essential SBWII), Arhoolie (King Biscuit Time), Larkin (The Virgin Encyclopedia of The Blues)
 * John Lee Curtis Sonny Boy Williamson: headstone
 * the first Sonny Boy Williamson: Dixon (autobiography)
 * It appears that the "most commonly used" and "most recognizable" is "Sonny Boy Williamson I", followed by "John Lee 'Sonny Boy' Williamson" (no listings for "Sonny Boy Williamson (1914–1948)"). To increase my frequent flyer miles, I will now be known as "Sonny Boy Williamson" a.k.a. Ojorojo (talk) 15:18, 14 March 2015 (UTC)


 * I've pinged, who moved it to the current title. On balance I think it would be best to revert to the SBWI name, unless there are very strong arguments in favour of something different. Ghmyrtle (talk) 11:50, 16 March 2015 (UTC)


 * OK, do what you guys think is best. I guess I was too bold. Quis separabit?  12:11, 16 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Thanks - I've returned it to the original name. Ghmyrtle (talk) 12:35, 16 March 2015 (UTC)


 * The best choice, IMO. A standardized phrase or short paragraph should be worked into both articles that outlines that over the years, SBWI and SBWII have become the most frequently used designations for the two by music writers and historians.  It might save us from having to repeat this.  Maybe something like:

Any suggestions? —Ojorojo (talk) 19:35, 16 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Do we have any sources that actually discuss the naming question itself? Ghmyrtle (talk) 20:48, 16 March 2015 (UTC)
 * I think it was framed more as "came to be known" or "is commonly referred to". I'll look at it tomorrow. —Ojorojo (talk) 21:17, 16 March 2015 (UTC)
 * How about:

—Ojorojo (talk) 17:07, 18 March 2015 (UTC)


 * I would prefer a clearer wording. Without reading all of the source material - an important caveat, I acknowledge - I would prefer something along these lines:   Ghmyrtle (talk) 20:50, 21 March 2015 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure about the "most record labels responsible for reissuing their recordings, now refer..." Looking through images of albums at Discogs for the two, it appears that "SBW" usually appears on album covers for both.  Change as you see fit. (I think you mean "made by 'Rice' Miller between 1951 and his death in 1965") —Ojorojo (talk) 18:48, 22 March 2015 (UTC)
 * I take the point about the reissue labels. It seems from the SBWII article that he first started being billed under the SBW name in 1941, by the sponsors of the King Biscuit Time radio show, and then the billing was continued when he started recording ten years later.  I need to check the sources, and will try to come up with an improved and more correct form of words for this paragraph.  Incidentally, I think that both the SBWII and SBWI articles could do with some more work, but I'm not sure whether it's something I can get round to in the short term.  Ghmyrtle (talk) 19:17, 22 March 2015 (UTC)
 * How about:  Ghmyrtle (talk) 09:26, 26 March 2015 (UTC)
 * OK w/refs (Barry pp. 89–90 provides a good summary). —Ojorojo (talk) 14:28, 26 March 2015 (UTC)

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