Talk:Sorbus torminalis

Picture
Is the picture with the white flowers not Crataegus monogyna syn. C. oxycantha??Rasbak 23:24, 2 May 2005 (UTC)

Service?
How is this tree commonly known as the wild service tree? Service doesn't seem like a proper name for a tree at all.


 * According to my Random House Unabridged Dictionary, the etymology of the word serviceberry, it says it was an American introduction from between 1775–1785 combining "service" (sense 2) + berry; this definition of service has the derivation as the following:"1520–30; earlier serves, plural of the obsolete serve service tree; Middle English; Old English syrfe < Vulgar Latin sorbea, derivation of the Latin Sorbus and Sorb (sense 1)"
 * Sorb, in that sense, means the species Sorbus domestica (the service tree).
 * Interesting... Hamamelis (talk) 07:28, 26 August 2011 (UTC)


 * Not sure about the American origin of this term for Sorbus, though presumably for Amelanchier. Philip Miller. 1754. The Gardener's Dictionary, 4th edition uses the name "the wild service" for Crataegus, as does the pre-Linnaean 1735 first non-folio edition available here. It is clear though, if you look at the individual species descriptions, that he has what we now call Sorbus thoroughly mixed up with Crataegus. Thanks for the dictionary information; I'd always assumed that "service" meant "useful", but apparently it means "Sorbus", specifically S. domestica. Nadiatalent (talk) 12:31, 26 August 2011 (UTC)


 * Just thought I'd add this, in case anyone's interested:

sorb (n.) "fruit of the service tree," 1520s, from French sorbe, from Latin sorbum "service-berry" (small, edible fruit of the European mountain ash), from sorbus, from Proto-Indoeuropean root *sor-/*ser- "red, reddish-brown."


 * It comes from the Online Etymology Dictionary. Hamamelis (talk) 15:15, 13 March 2013 (UTC)

"Cambridge University" disguised link spam
This reference actually points to a commercial website "Science and Plants for Schools" that has no demonstrated association with Cambridge University.

I'm removing these refs along with another bogus irrelevant link spam. Nickrz (talk) 17:47, 19 January 2013 (UTC)

Merger proposal

 * Oppose - merging Torminalis into Sorbus torminalis. There is no consensus yet on where Torminalis orientalis fits, and the final resting place of these species could well be in the genus Aria. The phylogeny of the Maloid Rosaceae is not yet settled, so genus boundaries are fluid. The current Torminalis page has useful discussion of the taxonomy that doesn't fit in any of those other places. Sminthopsis84 (talk) 22:41, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Oppose per Sminthopsis84.   HalfGig   talk  14:20, 23 January 2017 (UTC)

Latin name
Should be Torminalis glaberrima according to https://powo.science.kew.org/taxon/urn:lsid:ipni.org:names:742021-1 Betty (talk) 09:21, 13 June 2023 (UTC)

Merge proposal revisted
Torminalis is now classified by several taxonomic databases as being an accepted genus with the species Torminalis glaberrima, leaving Sorbus torminalis as its junior synonym.

This classification is supported by CoL, EoL*, GBIF, GRIN*, PoWo, and Tropicos but not (yet?) adopted by APDB, BioLib, EPPO, FNA, FoIA, IRMNG, ITIS, IUCN, MoBotPF, NatureServe, NBN, PalDat, USDA, WFO, and WoI.
 * nb. EoL also has a smaller entry for Sorbus torminalis without mentioning that it is a synonym of the larger entry for Torminalis glaberrima. GRIN adds note that while Torminalis is probably a senior synonym to Sorbus subg. Torminaria, it may also be a possible synonym of the genus Sorbus.
 * BOLD systems, NCBI and Open ToL each list two or more species in the genus Torminalis.

The most recent phylogenetic research supports Torminalis as a separate genus (see Ulaszewski et al., 2021 here)

Is it now time to merge Sorbus torminalis into Torminalis? Or to recognise the second unnamed species as identified by BOLD, which would lead to renaming this article Torminalis glaberrima instead? Loopy30 (talk) 16:23, 12 September 2023 (UTC)
 * ✅ Merged to Torminalis, with note added of possible second species identified. Loopy30 (talk) 00:26, 21 September 2023 (UTC)