Talk:South Asian Canadians in British Columbia

Focus on this article
This article should focus on the overall province-wide development of Indo-Canadians and Indo-Canadians in areas outside of Greater Vancouver (Skeena and Victoria, BC as well as other areas). There should be enough room for both this article and Indo-Canadians in Greater Vancouver. Nayar's book The Punjabis in British Columbia has a lot of content on the rural Punjabis. WhisperToMe (talk) 12:56, 18 October 2014 (UTC)
 * BTW this article should discuss Vancouver Indo-Canadians, but not to a level where it causes WP:Undue weight. That is part of the reason why it's good to have separate city-based articles, as all of the excess details go there. WhisperToMe (talk) 14:19, 25 October 2014 (UTC)

Merge discussion
NOTE As the merge discussion at Talk:Indo-Canadians has been garnering support, despite the creator of this and the GV articles deluging it with his usual walls of text and SYNTH amassifications of cites to justify his POV forking, I am creating this only as a formality to go with the merge templates while awaiting a resolution of the creators' "war" to prevent that merge and justify his POV forks. If that merge succeeds, as it seems it well may despite prolific outpourings of arguments and cites "ad nauseam", then this merge will be adjusted to point to Indo-Canadians; as noted there by those few who have braved the walls of text posted by "the opponent" there is no valid reason for the Greater Vancouver title to be separate from the main national title. This article may then be deleted/merged back into the national title, also. I note that "the opponent" has also now fielded the idea that Indo-Canadians should be merged into South Asian Canadians according to his SYNTH readings of citations, so that's a fourth merge and yet more on the table. DO NOT use this section to deluge it with citations already made on too many other discussions to count. There's already far too much on too many boards to keep track of.Skookum1 (talk) 10:04, 10 November 2014 (UTC)

Tag & Assess review
I have reviewed the page for assessment. It almost qualifies for B-rating, but it has a couple of sections that need expansion, and it has too many red links. Once these problems are resolved, please request a reassessment. Oh, you would also need to expand the lead paragraph to be a bit more substantial. Kautilya3 (talk) 21:26, 14 December 2014 (UTC)
 * That writing style is not a factor in that potential B-rating is a vagary of wiki-class-definitions; the "pat" or "bald" compilation and cursory location-sorting of this page does not hide the fact that it is a "random compilation of facts" without any cogent purpose or articulation; it is really a "directory of data" and not encylopedic or informed as of yet. Stats without context are just stats; this is really a glorified list or "found" information, it is not an article as such.Skookum1 (talk) 05:07, 16 December 2014 (UTC)

Brij Lal (1976) on Rajani Kant Das' book (1923)
In his 1976 UBC master's thesis, Brij Lal states in pages 3-4 (PDF document: p. 12-13/203) that:
 * "Rajani Kant Das' book published in 1923, though still the most important single work on the East Indians, focuses its attention on the Hindustani settlement on the Pacific Coast in a rather general way, and in view of the fact that much new evidence has become available recently, his account is outdated.10" (footnote 10 is just a citation of the R.K. Das book)

It's good to keep track of what the sources say about each other so Wikipedians can pick through contradictory information and see what to put in and what to put out. Das's book should be listed in further reading, but notes on what sources say about each other should be noted. WhisperToMe (talk) 18:14, 21 December 2014 (UTC)

Indo-Canadian politicians and others re the BC Legislature Raids case and sundry
This is a search of the "BC Mary blog" for items containing "Singh" as a 'marker' with too many notable names to list here; whether this belongs in the "Politics" section or "Crime" section is debatable. Dave Basi and Aneal Virk are bios long in need of doing but have to be done with care and informed authorship, likewise those of others involved or connected to the case because of certain legal strictures concerning publication that still remain. this is a search there for "Basi" and note that that blog has tons of mainstream media cites; it's not "just a blog" and is admissible as a reliable source; in fact BC Mary blog deserves an article eventually; but I was a participant there and a colleague of the late BC Mary so have avoided doing so for COI reasons.Skookum1 (talk) 05:00, 15 January 2015 (UTC)

the Braiches of Mission
Herman Braich and Erwin Braich (Herman Singh Braich and Erwin Singh Braich) are both highly notable; there was a publication ban on the latter over a tax case, that has been lifted it seems and there is now a lawsuit against the Crown Prosecution branch and RCMP in Canada itself. There had been a previous civil-court lawsuit in Seattle that was settled out of court: Suffice to say there's a LOT of material out there other than academic sources of "that certain kind" and a lot more important material to be covered than much of the UNDUE and quasi-TRIVIA that this article and its needs-merging Greater Vancouver "twin", and that additions here demonstrated that the metropolitan region and the province as a whole cannot and should not be treated separately.Skookum1 (talk) 05:06, 15 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Google for "Erwin Singh Braich"
 * GoogleNews results for "Erwin Singh Braich"
 * GoogleBooks results for "Erwin Singh Braich"

Herb Doman and the Doman Scandal
I noted in the BC Names source for Paldi, British Columbia that Doman Industries seems to have started there; I know someone from there (who I was in that HIST-436 course at SFU I've variously mentioned in discussions somewhere) so will check with him what books or other stuff he might know of; he's a Canadian-raised Sikh. Herb Doman and the Doman Scandal both need articles, the latter link may be a redirect to a section on William Richards Bennett at present, not sure. Not related to Indo-Canadian society but concerning one of BC's most prominent Indo-Canadian business magnates and one of the largest forest companies of modern times: The crossover between "politics" and "crime" again, as with the BC Rail scandal/Basi case above, and also with "commerce and business" requires that informed and careful input/expansion about this is needed, not blind pastiching of just any old quote about it, without context.Skookum1 (talk) 05:19, 15 January 2015 (UTC)
 * GoogleBooks result for "Doman Scandal"
 * curiously there is nothing in GoogleNews despite other "Doman+scandal" results re some showbiz guy but that is partly because online CBC archives don't go back that far, and CanWestGlobal's archives before 1993 were destroyed that year; might be the Waybackmachine could be used to locate press articles about this very important episode in BC politics of the early '80s].
 * GoogleNews results for "Herb Doman"
 * GoogleBooks results for "Herb Doman"
 * GoogleBooks results for "Doman Industries"
 * GoogleNews results for "Doman Industries"

Kash Heed so far not mentioned in either article
Quite bizarre that so many prominent names are not yet mentioned in either article, but then that's the fault of the narrow ranges of sources preferred by the instigator of these topics, and also the complete lack of familiarity on the community by same about BC history and society/politics. As with others named on this article, there is more than a lot of crossover with "Vancouver" content, serving as yet more demonstrations why the attempt to maintain that "Vancouver" is a separate topic from the whole province is a complete fallacy and OR. Because of unpleasant experience with political activists/trolls on BC political articles in the past, I tend to stay away from working on such articles; but Heed needs to be mentioned here, and not in an idle or "pat" sort of way. His campaign staff's use of illegal in-Chinese campaign materials is a demonstration, also, of inter-ethnic politics that has nothing to do with discrimination against either group by "Whites"; somehow the academic types have little interest in this stuff; though the ethnic press DOES. But that would be partly because such stories do not fit the "narrative" that academic incest seems intent on building and furthering in the course of revisioning history to suit a soapbox view of BC history in termrs of "groups" and "white oppression/discrimination".Skookum1 (talk) 05:34, 15 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Google search for "Kash Heed"
 * GoogleNews results for "Kash Heed"
 * Googlebooks results for "Kash Heed"

Anti-Indo-Canadian sentiment from non-white groups: The First Nations
All of the book reviews of Kamala Elizabeth Nayar's The Punjabis in British Columbia state that this book covers anti-Punjabi sentiment found in First Nations people during the post-World War II Punjabi immigration to places such as the Skeenas. When this article develops, use Nayar's book as a source and discuss how these feelings came to be. WhisperToMe (talk) 17:17, 16 January 2015 (UTC)
 * A one-source-wonder as always; has it occurred to you to read period newspapers and research also what First Nations scholars might have to say about this? "the Skeenas" is another demonstratrion of your complete and total lack of acquaintances with BC; if ever used "the Skeenas" would refer to the Skeena Mountains when discussing mountains; the region is "the Skeena", "the Skeena country" or "the Skeena valley"; it is not a plural; if Nayar uses that plural, it's a demonstration of her lack of acquaintance where she's talking about.  You will also find in the stories of Narajan Singh Grewall and Jhonder Basran that whatever was going on up in the Skeena was not going on in Mission; and it's not like the Skeena, again whatever was going on up there, is the model for what happened elsewhere e.g. the Cowichan Valley or the Okanagan or the Fraser Valley.  In Basran's case, he was mayor of a town/area that's over 60% native and worked alongside three different band governments there; and other than his family was one of a handful of Indo-Canadians there; a town which Dr Masajiro Miyazaki commented that "it was impossible to be racist" because everyone were individuals and neighbours and knew each other intimately; of course academic scholars don't like to talk about assimilation except in negative terms....don't ask me for page-cites for this, I've already provided cites you are ignoring while you go on about writing book reviews instead of actually researching and reading history.  And I wonder, did Ms Nayar to to the Skeena country and interview or otherwise communicate with the native peoples there and get their side?  I'm guessing not, as is typical of mono-sided ethno-research.Skookum1 (talk) 06:20, 17 January 2015 (UTC)


 * What galls me is the line of negative research going on, rather than any interest in the many stories of community integration/participation and cooperation that are the real story in BC; the section heading here is a demonstration of that agenda, "anti-Indo-Canadian sentiment" as if a major topic is not the only side of the story; far from it; BC elected Indo-Canadians to office before anywhere else in Canada: with very strong support from non-Indo-Canadians e.g. in Grewall's and Basran's case, also a long list of others (including a premier and not a few cabinet ministers); cooperation and mutuality is one of the biggest traits of the Sikh/I-C community in BC; I suspect in the Skeena it may not have had so much to do with interethnic racism as such but because Indo-Canadians there would have been involved in the timber and milling industries, and that's something natives in that area have fought avidly against and continue to do so. But apparently academic sources are more interested in highlighting divisions through writing papers on anti-Indo-Canadian "sentiments" rather than exploring anything else; that this series of articles is tyring to be "kept" to anti/negative materials is not valid and so much else could be added, while negative content continues to be researched and pushed.Skookum1 (talk) 07:06, 17 January 2015 (UTC)


 * Indo-Canadians_in_British_Columbia is an example of "positive" content. The Abbotsford MSA Museum states that the city treated its Indo-Canadian population well when it first settled the area. Finding more references like this would be very helpful. WhisperToMe (talk) 18:45, 24 May 2015 (UTC)

complete rubbish from Nayar taken out
Nothing could prove to me more the uselessness of the citation that the author of this page has obsessed over than this:
 * ''Sawmill jobs were the sorts of jobs not pursued by other Canadians; many Anglo Canadians were not interested in hard labor.

What a load of HOGWASH. We're talking about 1907 here, and even today sawmill labour is at least as "Anglo-Canadian" (another imposition of an academic term by a scholar out of touch with British Columbia). The stilted writin aside, the "the sky is blue" citations and text here e.g. that most sawmill workers were mail, or t he RIDICULOUS claim that I-C women applied for government jobs believe private enterprise would discriminate against them in hiring, is so controversial that only one citation from one clearly-already-in-error source is just not enough.

There's much more to be fixed on this article but I'm aghast at some of the outright CRAP these page-cited overly footnoted passages of twaddle constitute; embarrassingly bad.....Skookum1 (talk) 02:20, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

References that directly refute the information in Nayar should be supplied or else the info in Nayar's book is unchallenged. WhisperToMe (talk) 18:43, 24 May 2015 (UTC)

Archived pages of Rajani Kant Das' book (1923)
Courtesy of the West Bengal Public Library Network: WhisperToMe (talk) 08:40, 24 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Index (Wayback machine, webcitation)
 * Title page (Wayback machine, webcitation)
 * Preface (Wayback machine, Webcitation)
 * Content pages (Wayback machine, webcitation)
 * Preliminary pages (Wayback machine, webcitation)
 * Chapters 1-8 (Wayback machine, Webcitation)
 * Chapters 9-11 (Wayback machine, Webcitation)
 * Appendix (Wayback machine, Webcitation)
 * Other pages/index (Wayback machine, Webcitation)

External links modified
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