Talk:South Side, Chicago/Archive 1

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GA Review
The citation needed tags need to be addressed or the article will be quick-failed. Please address them before another editor reviews the article. --Nehrams2020 00:14, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

This article meets the Good Article criteria, but cannot be listed until two issues are met. First, is the aforementioned 'citation needed' tag (there's one remaining). Second, the use of a left-justified and right-justified image at the end of the article is very awkward, and make the sections look strange there (parks & popular culture). It might be better to put both of these at the right side, and change the image size so that they're both identical. Also, it could help if the Chicago marathon had some context within the article itself.

Let me know when these issues are addressed. Dr. Cash 05:26, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

I will attempt to address these issues personally and post it at WP:CHIDISCUSS for other members to make editorial contributions. If you don't hear from us earlier please allow the full 7 days.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/tcfkaWCDbwincowtchatlotpsoplrttaDCLaM) 16:48, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

Comments from rebooted FAC being addressed

 * New comments
 * In addition to being highly ranked, the University of Chicago has had 16 Nobel Prizes awarded to persons of research or on faculty at the university at the time of the award announcement, placing it 6th amongst U.S. institutions. Why "amongst"? That sounds archaic. IIRC, "among" means the same thing (at least in American English). Zagalejo ^ ^  ^  20:31, 3 November 2007 (UTC)--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/tcfkaWCDbwincowtchatlotpsoplrttaDCLaM) 19:09, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Despite the numerous educational institutions, the South Side has relatively few highly educated residents outside of the Hyde Park neighborhood (the Hyde Park community area and the southern half of the Kenwood community area) and the Beverly community area. Do we have a ref explaining that the Hyde Park neighborhood includes part of Kenwood? I'm still uneasy about this sentence in general, because 1) it's based on your interpretation of a map (ie, OR) and 2) it kinda suggests that people in other community areas are stupid. Zagalejo ^ ^  ^  20:31, 3 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Hyde Park the neighborhood extends to 47th Street, but this is entirely class-based, so the eductional level description is a tautology. Rephrasing it is not a problem. What it says is true; there is a clustering of the highly educated, and yes, this means that residents of the other areas are less well educated. Speciate 21:00, 3 November 2007 (UTC) reworded.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Speciate (talk • contribs) 21:09, 3 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Well, that's a little more tactful. But looking at the map again, shouldn't Ashburn be mentioned, as well? Zagalejo ^ ^  ^  21:20, 3 November 2007 (UTC)
 * We do have a source (Hyde Park Chamber of Commerce 2007-2008 Member Directory, Hyde Park Chamber of Commerce, pp. 32-33, 2007), but the section has been rephrased. It seems you like the new phrasing however.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/tcfkaWCDbwincowtchatlotpsoplrttaDCLaM) 19:25, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Neighborhoods such as Armour Square, Back of the Yards, Bridgeport, Little Village and Pullman tend to be blue collar, while the Jackson Park Highlands District, Hyde Park, Mount Greenwood, Morgan Park and Beverly tend to have middle, upper-middle and higher incomes. The neighborhoods don't have the incomes; the people do. Plus, would all readers understand a term like "blue collar"? Zagalejo ^ ^  ^  20:31, 3 November 2007 (UTC)--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/tcfkaWCDbwincowtchatlotpsoplrttaDCLaM) 19:30, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
 * The South Side currently hosts two major professional athletic teams. We should assume that the article is current. Zagalejo ^ ^  ^  20:31, 3 November 2007 (UTC)--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/tcfkaWCDbwincowtchatlotpsoplrttaDCLaM) 19:32, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
 * The South Side is home to many official landmarks as well as many notable buildings and structures. How about: "The South Side is home to many official landmarks and other notable buildings and structures." Most of the official landmarks are themselves notable buildings and structures. Zagalejo ^ ^  ^  20:31, 3 November 2007 (UTC)--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/tcfkaWCDbwincowtchatlotpsoplrttaDCLaM) 19:30, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
 * 1700 East 56th continues to be the tallest building south of 13th street. "Continues to be" is unnecessarily wordy. There's gotta be a better alternative. Zagalejo ^ ^  ^  20:31, 3 November 2007 (UTC)--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/tcfkaWCDbwincowtchatlotpsoplrttaDCLaM) 19:08, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Many of these are on the South Side including several large parks that are part of the legacy of Paul Cornell and his service on the South Parks Commission. Who is Paul Cornell? We should explain who he is, instead of just dropping his name here and there. --TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/tcfkaWCDbwincowtchatlotpsoplrttaDCLaM) 19:38, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
 * We really don't say that much about the Union Stockyards beyond the brief mention in "References in popular culture". The Stockyards were a huge part of Chicago's economy. Zagalejo ^ ^  ^  20:31, 3 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm sure there's more I could find, but I'll stop for now. Zagalejo ^ ^  ^  20:31, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

Category:United States communities with African American majority populations
There is some contention whether South Side belongs in Category:United States communities with African American majority populations because it is not a census-designated place. It is not clear to me that only census-designated place belong.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTD) 05:55, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

It's also not clear that the South Side would qualify to be in that category. The South Side of Chicago is not an official community. There is no way to determine it without original research. It's debatable also what communities qualify as south side. On this page, some west side neighborhoods are referenced as if they are on the south side. Many people also include the nearby suburbs when they reference the South Side of Chicago. 99.140.164.99 (talk) 05:59, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

Merge_proposal
I believe that Chicago Southland and South Side (Chicago) mean the same thing. If so there should be one unified article. I believe this is the proper location.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTD) 00:04, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
 * They refer to different things. The Southland is a suburban region: . Zagalejo^^^ 00:35, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Withdrawn.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTD) 08:34, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

Dubious
The statement "Chicago's reputation for political corruption stems from tolerance of vices such as prostitution." is a subjective judgment that seems based on opinion, especially the description of prostitution as a "vice". The statement should be rewritten or omitted. h3h (talk) 00:46, 4 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Please read the citation from the Encyclopedia of Chicago.--TonyTheTiger (t/c/bio/WP:CHICAGO/WP:LOTM) 16:30, 5 November 2008 (UTC)
 * The encyclopedia entry you cite hedges by enclosing the word "vice" in quotation marks, indicating its subjectivity. Carrying that treatment over seems prudent, at the least, given the subjective nature of the claim. h3h (talk) 01:31, 2 May 2009 (UTC)

Neutrality
It seems to me that this article takes a positive slant on the current state of the South Side. Some neighborhoods (e.g. Englewood) here are crumbling, crime-infested places, and the article hardly even alludes to these problem areas. In terms of the current, non-historical information, the article is very Hyde-Park-centric. I think it needs maps of say unemployment and crime rates to give an accurate representation. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.34.188.150 (talk) 19:29, 24 February 2009 (UTC)

Co-ops
The Hyde Park Co-op closed a couple of years ago. You might want to revisit that part of the article.--Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 23:46, 2 August 2012 (UTC)
 * The term co-op in this case isn't a reference to the former grocery store/produce market, it's a type of housing referred to as a co-op, and those definitely are in existence in HP (I used to rent from a friend who owned a unit in a co-op on Woodlawn). Ryecatcher773 (talk) 00:14, 3 August 2012 (UTC)

Issues
This article would not be featured by today's standards. Some paragraphs are unsourced, and shouldn't the history section be separated by time period and not arts, demographics, etc? ~ EDDY  ( talk / contribs ) ~ 02:06, 11 August 2012 (UTC)


 * I'm confused... by 'today's standards', what exactly are you saying? It is a feature article today.Ryecatcher773 (talk) 06:29, 11 August 2012 (UTC)


 * There are quite a few dead links in the citations listed also; I voted for it to run as TFA, but those should probably be fixed.--Chimino (talk) 10:07, 11 August 2012 (UTC)
 * I mean, if it was at FAC today it would not pass. I see small prose and grammar errors in addition to unreferenced sentences and paragraphs. ~ EDDY  ( talk / contribs ) ~ 15:08, 11 August 2012 (UTC)

Pop Culture References
For what reason was the reference to Moby removed via reversion? SirAcidCasualty (talk) 07:00, 11 August 2012 (UTC)


 * Hello? Anyone mind if I add it?SirAcidCasualty (talk) 01:12, 17 August 2012 (UTC)

Infobox
Why doesn't this article have an infobox? Infobox settlement would be the one to use. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 09:24, 12 August 2012 (UTC)
 * No answer, so I'll add one later. Andy Mabbett ( Pigsonthewing ); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 13:49, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

Maintenance tags
As this has had multiple maintenance tags for a long time, no one is maintaining this. This should be FAR'd soon if this is not remedied. Pumpkin Sky  talk  00:30, 29 August 2012 (UTC)

Prostitution and Gangs on the South Side
No one knows the South Side better than a person born and raised there. Granted that people's opinions about my birthplace can be negative at times, but I refuse to let mistruths or inaccuracies continue on this page. Prostitution stretched throughout Chicago especially on Rush Street downtown in the '80s. The writers mentioned the Levee which was located at the intersection of Cermak Road and Michigan Avenue in the city's Near South Side NOT the South Side. Review your maps!! The mention of the Levee is on the wrong page and should exist on the Near South Side page. If you can find a historical truth of a prostitution ring on the South Side then I will let it go. Right now it is inaccurate.

As far as the gang activity under the Demographics section, please reference the definition of Demographics below.

Demographics as defined from Dictionary.com - a single vital or social statistic of a human population, as the number of births or deaths.

Gang activity is clearly NOT a demographic and does not qualify under this definition. Also, another valid point is that the US Census will track death in a community but not gang activity. As a result, gang activity is not a demographic.

"All the material in Wikipedia mainspace, including everything in articles, lists and captions, must be verifiable. All quotations and any material whose verifiability has been challenged or is likely to be challenged, must include an inline citation that directly supports the material. Any material that needs a source but does not have one may be removed." RereChiTown 18:55, 15 December 2012 (UTC)

Definition and Boundaries

 * It seems very strange to me -- and more importantly inconsistent with the definition currently given in the lede -- to define the "South Side" as somehow excluding the Near South Side. The Near South Side is a neighborhood or "community area" on the (near) South Side of Chicago ... hence the name. -- Visviva (talk) 21:21, 15 December 2012 (UTC)

I can argue and say as a Chicagoan that Near South Side means near the south side, exclusive of the south side. The same goes for the Near North Side, exclusive of the north side. Even if you read the Boundary section of the article it starts with "There is some confusion as to where the South Side begins". Thus, it varies according to the cultural perspectives that influence how Chicagoans label sections of the city. To a considerable extent the section is a state of mind thus represents an opinion. One of the rules of wikipedia is that the content shall be verifiable and not be original. Basically, you can't have an opinion on either arguable sides. It can only be supported by facts like a map that separates the south side from downtown (which does not exist since Chicago is separated by communities only). Since they have a page for the Near South Side, Chicago, then that information regarding the Levee is verifiable and should exist on that page based on the designated clear boundaries of the Near South Side. RereChiTown 22:15, 15 December 2012 (UTC)


 * And I will argue as a Chicagoan (who lives on the South Side), that while the geographic and abstract (i.e. perceived) definitions of the city are sometimes at odds, both historically and geographically speaking the tract in question is part of the South Side. You can argue whatever angle you would like to, but Wikipedia isn't the place for re-districting the city simply because it doesn't jibe with your perception. Ryecatcher773 (talk) 23:10, 27 December 2012 (UTC)


 * I'm with User:Ryecatcher773, also as a Chicagoan. The only place that's ever been not on the South, West or North Sides to me was the Loop. (I'm starting to accept "East Side" as a subgroup of the South Side.) That said, I'm moving this discussion out of the "Prostitution and Gangs" section. --~E$ (talk) 21:28, 17 July 2014 (UTC)

Dubious population figures
Is the population of the South Side really 752,496 and 93% African-American? The citation doesn't lead anywhere definite, and common sense suggests that the population is more heavily white, Hispanic, and Asian. I can't find a citation, but a little analysis of the 2010 census figures might provide a more accurate estimate. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.51.78.41 (talk) 09:49, 26 February 2013 (UTC)


 * I'd bet that this is related to the fuzziness of boundaries in the article. --~E$ (talk) 21:21, 17 July 2014 (UTC)

"District"
I might be missing something, but seeing the South Side labelled as a "district" makes it sound like there is an official recognition or definition. I'm not aware of such recognition, and I don't see it cited anywhere in the article. I checked the Cities WikiProject and didn't see anything there about a formal "district" classification. I'm not saying that the South Side isn't real or recognized as a geographic unit, just that I've never heard it called a "district" before. ~E$ 14:09, 10 August 2016 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Erik a hanson (talk • contribs)

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External links modified
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