Talk:South Side, Chicago/GA1

GA Review
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Reviewer: Khazar2 (talk · contribs) 13:06, 24 January 2013 (UTC)

Hi Tony, I'll be glad to take this review. I'll start with a close readthrough of the article, noting any issues here I can't immediately fix myself, and then go to the criteria checklist. Thanks in advance for your work on this one -- Khazar2 (talk) 13:06, 24 January 2013 (UTC)

Initial readthrough
Some initial comments. Sorry I didn't subdivide these into section as I went, I didn't expect the list to end up so long. I'm about halfway through the article.


 * Two mild formatting problems that I'm having in Chrome (though not Firefox) in looking at this page:
 * "Archer Heights, a Polish enclave along Archer Avenue, which leads toward Midway Airport, is located on the Southwest Side of the city, as is Beverly-Morgan Park (#72, 75), home to a large concentration of Irish Americans." overlaps with the Midway airport image box.
 * "Vee-Jay, the largest black-owned label before Motown Records, was among the post-World War II companies that formed "Record Row" on Cottage Grove between 47th and 50th Streets" -- goes off the right margin of the page, and keeps going, forcing me to scroll right to read it. Any idea what might be causing these? I haven't encountered this issue before.
 * I have this open in six browsers Firefox, Chrome, MSIE, Opera, Safari, and Netscape Navigator. I don't see the first problem. I view on high resolution (about 1600 wide). What width are you viewing this in? I am seeing the second issue in a different paragraph (but only in Chrome and not the other 5 browsers).--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 04:20, 25 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Odd. I wouldn't worry about it then. My own screen res is at 1366. What's strange is I can't remember seeing this problem before, though I often open dozens of Wikipedia pages a day; not sure what's causing the glitch here. I don't see anything unusual in the code. -- Khazar2 (talk) 05:35, 25 January 2013 (UTC)


 * "Although it has a reputation for being poor or crime-infested,[7][8] the reality is more varied" -- though crime and a "gritty reputation" are mentioned in the lead and novels section, respectively, the article doesn't appear to really cover this yet. There's a paragraph on gangs, but the 3.5 million Google results for South Side Chicago crime (and its reputation for it) suggest to me that this might be worth a full subsection; there's no shortage of sources.


 * "Some other neighborhoods stayed relatively safe for a big city." -- As an evaluation, needs a citation.


 * The paragraph on gangs mentions a turn toward community activism in the 1960s, but omits the turn back to drug trafficking in the 1970s mentioned in the same source, leaving the odd impression that the gangs left crime and ceased to be a threat; this might be clarified from this source or another.
 * Fixed.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 06:18, 25 January 2013 (UTC)


 * Not necessary for GA, but consider cleaning up the tremendous number of duplicate links in the article per WP:REPEATLINK and to avoid the impression of a wall of blue.
 * I took out a lot of them.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 05:52, 25 January 2013 (UTC)


 * "The South Side covers 60% of the city's land area, with a higher ratio of single-family homes and larger sections zoned for industry than the rest of the city" -- has been marked as citation needed since Nov.


 * "After the Civil War freed the millions of slaves, during Reconstruction black southerners migrated to Chicago and caused the African American population to nearly quadruple from 4,000 to 15,000 between 1870 and 1890" -- integrate or expand one-sentence paragraph.


 * The first four paragraphs of the history section appear to be jumping in chronology quite a bit. 1840s immigration, black expansion after WWII, then back to black immigration in 1870, then further back to 1850 incorporation, then to 1900-1945 black immigration.
 * Fixed.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 15:01, 25 January 2013 (UTC)


 * "overburdened many local governments system" -- appears that this should be "government systems" or "governments' systems"
 * Thanks.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 18:25, 25 January 2013 (UTC)
 * "It challenged racial restrictions in the Washington Park Subdivision" -- what was the result of the case?
 * Is it O.K. now?--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 21:40, 26 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Yep, thanks. -- Khazar2 (talk) 04:58, 27 January 2013 (UTC)
 * The 1919 riot seems worth mentioning in the history.


 * "Later, during the tenure" -- is it possible to be more specific with timeframe here--a year or range of years?
 * Fixed.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 07:34, 29 January 2013 (UTC)
 * "In the late 20th century the South Side had among the poorest housing conditions in the United States" -- needs citation.


 * "black or African American" -- I'd suggest consistently using "black" or "African American" throughout the article, but it introduces a level of confusion here to present them as alternatives. (Particularly when the previous sentence only used "African American")


 * "Hyde Park is home to the University of Chicago, as well as the South Side's largest Jewish population, centered on Chicago's oldest synagogue, the Chicago Landmark KAM Isaiah Israel." -- expand or integrate one-sentence paragraph.


 * "It was broadcast on Chicago's CBS affiliate" -- this seems like a fairly trivial detail, particularly if this is no longer happening.
 * It was just cancelled for two years. I am not sure if it is now being broadcast again.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 07:38, 29 January 2013 (UTC)
 * "The parade was said to be the largest Irish neighborhood St. Patrick's celebration in the world outside of Dublin, Ireland" -- it would be good to make it clear who said this in the sentence. (An organizer? A city official?) Unfortunately, the source is a dead link.


 * " the second largest parade in the United States " -- is it possible to find a stronger source than local news that this is the second-largest parade in the US?


 * -- does not appear to me to be a reliable source


 * "Private sector redevelopment is occurring rapidly." -- citation needed; also, consider specifying the year this information is coming from.


 * "It has become an increasingly popular destination for both tourists and locals alike" -- citation needed


 * "The South Side offers many outdoor amenities, such as miles of public lakefront parks and beaches, as it borders Lake Michigan on its eastern side." -- this article has a subtle promotional tone running through it that worries me. The crime that the South Side is nationally famous for is strongly de-emphasized: the lead all but says it isn't true, statistics are never given, and even the paragraph on gangs greatly downplays the threat. In contrast, amenities are emphasized, the city "boasts" of this and that, and many things flatly are claimed to be the biggest/best in the nation from minor sources. I don't know that this specific statement needs work, but I wanted to point out the general trend.


 * "The Union Stock Yard, Chicago is ..." quotation needs citation.


 * "with 16 Nobel Prize winners working at the university at the time of the award announcement" -- I count 15 on the list given in the source-- am I in error?
 * Do either Charles B. Huggins or Yoichiro Nambu count?--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 07:22, 3 February 2013 (UTC)


 * " is one of the nation's best medical centers" -- I'd suggest more clearly attributing this evaluation, and giving a clearer representation of what it said. Does this look fair to you? "In 2007, U.S. News & World Report ranked the University of Chicago Medical Center one of the top 20 hospitals in America for digestive disorders (#6), cancer (#7), endocrinology (#11), and neurology and neurosurgery (#14)."
 * Since it is not in the 2012 list I have removed this.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 07:41, 3 February 2013 (UTC)
 * "University of Chicago Lab School, affiliated with the University of Chicago, is a private school located there" -- integrate or expand one sentence paragraph.


 * "has taught many notable celebrities" -- source does not appear to support this claim. Suggest cutting as unsourced and promotional in tone.
 * I'll have a look at this list and see if it is manageable within the next few days.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 14:41, 24 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Great, thanks. -- Khazar2 (talk) 15:27, 24 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Since it's been about a week, I thought I'd check in here for an update. I notice you still haven't had a chance to respond to a lot of the above (which in itself only takes us about halfway through the article). Do you still want to continue? (You seemed a bit ambivalent above.) My own inclination is to close this one at this point so you can go over it at your leisure for things like POV-tweaking and statements/quotations needing citation. If you can get to this in the next few days, though, so we can proceed to the second half of the article, I'd be glad to continue. Up to you. In either case, thanks for your work on this one so far. -- Khazar2 (talk) 04:27, 2 February 2013 (UTC)
 * I honestly don't believe I can do all of these. However, there are many more that I can do. I apologize that a lot of my WP time has been spent editing images taht I took at at basketball game on the 26th.  I took 1182 pictures. So far, I have discarded about 800 of them.  If you look at my contributions on commons you will see the types of images I have been involved in. When I am watching TV or Xfinity I do a lot of edits that make it seem like I am spending a lot of time when I am just pressing buttons to reformat templates.  Right now, I have only gotten a few images properly cropped and added to articles. So the long and the short of it is that I think I could do more, but I won't be able to address all your concerns.  Sunday, I will probably knock a few more things off the list. We can reassess at that point or if you wish you can close it down now.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 06:03, 2 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Sure, let's take a look in a few days then. Thanks for all the image work! -- Khazar2 (talk) 14:56, 2 February 2013 (UTC)
 * Actually, I think I have better ways to spend my time on WP. I withdraw this nomination. It is farther away from GA than I thought it was.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 08:08, 3 February 2013 (UTC)
 * No problem. Thanks for your work so far. -- Khazar2 (talk) 08:17, 3 February 2013 (UTC)