Talk:Southeastern University/Archive 1

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Request To Include Honorary Degrees
The Southeastern University Wikipedia page could be improved with a list of notable individuals that have been awarded the highest degree obtainable in both an honorary fashion and via the traditional path from SEU.

I only know of one individual that has been awarded a Doctor of Letters; Sean Hannity. I thought it would be useful if others could see this information, so that they might add other individuals that Southeastern has recognized.

Sean Hannity is certainly notable. He is also an honorary alumnus. I've tried to update the page and it's been repeatedly deleted. I'm not sure how this criteria is any different from the "notable alumni" category. Sean Hannity meets both conditions. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.56.91.52 (talk • contribs) 17:40, March 5, 2019 (UTC)


 * I reverted this edit because I don't see much or any value for readers in knowing to whom this university has awarded honorary degrees. What exactly are readers supposed to learn about this university from this information?  Why does it belong in an encyclopedia article?  (Please note that I hold this objection in general for any institution and any listing of honorary degree holders; I'm not intending to single out this university or this person.) ElKevbo (talk) 23:11, 5 March 2019 (UTC)


 * A University awards a terminal degree based on the accomplishments and life of an individual. You honestly believe that the readers cannot learn anything from this award? I'd argue that the category is equally valid to the notable alumni category. By the criteria you stated above, what use is the notable alumni category at all? It's actually quite odd. The category is neutral, verifiable, and factual. A reader's interest can be left to them. They can forgo clicking the drop down menu if they choose. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:58b:4102:7451:e9bd:1b26:c71d:ce5e (talk • contribs) 22:23, March 5, 2019 (UTC)


 * The important things are what do our policies say about the subject, and what practice do we follow ? Is there any policy or guideline that specifically addresses the inclusion/exclusion of honorary degree recipients? I could not find one. The most directly applicable information I find is at WP:SOURCELIST..Jacona (talk) 12:51, 6 March 2019 (UTC)


 * I read through the policies, and I can't find a reason that they should be excluded. The information is not new, it is verifiable, and it is neutral. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 73.205.212.16 (talk) 15:09, 6 March 2019 (UTC)


 * A lot of universities give honorary degrees to a lot of people. If Wikipedia doesn't have a policy against including them in this situation, it should. Prescottbush (talk) 19:20, 6 March 2019 (UTC)


 * WP:ALUMNI doesn't mention honorary degrees. It does have some language that tries to clarify that the modern use of "alumni" does not mean "graduate" but a student who matriculated and spent any time at the institution but that doesn't speak to honorary degree recipients.  That advice article is also aimed at "schools" in general and not colleges and universities so it's not surprising that it omits discussion of honorary degrees.
 * WP:UNIGUIDE is specific to college and universities but it, too, doesn't give any advice specific to honorary degree holders. The closest it comes is the paragraph describing the typical "Noted people" section where it says that "[t]his section should give a sense of the extent to which persons with well-known deeds or highly significant accomplishments are or have been associated with the school (as by attendance there or by being on staff or faculty)."
 * In the absence of specific guidance, it's up to the editors of individual articles to discuss issues and come to a consensus based on the broader policies, guidelines, and typical practices across the project. In this case, I return to my original question: What exactly are readers supposed to learn about this university from including honorary degree holders?  Why does it belong in an encyclopedia article (as opposed to the institution's own publications where detailed lists of historical information may be more appropriate)?
 * In general, I'm not in favor of including this information in any college or university article. In my experience, colleges and universities typically award honorary degrees either to (a) recognize distinguished alumni or people otherwise connected to the institution or (b) draw attention from the media, press, and others.  In some cases, it's de rigueur for commencement speakers to be awarded honorary degrees and I would hypothesize that commencement speakers are chosen for the same two reasons just presented (with an additional criterion that they should be entertaining, engaging, or inspiring since they are also asked to speak).  If a reliable source has already used this information to make an argument then perhaps we should include that information in an article.  But simply including a listing of honorary degree recipients doesn't seem to convey much information to readers except the rather bland "this institution confers honorary degrees."
 * If we are to include honorary degree recipients in an article, we definitely need to establish criteria so we're not just including a few examples selected to meet the whims of a few Wikipedia editors. For example, we might try including all honorary degree recipients who already have a Wikipedia article (i.e., are notable).  We might also try to establish some kind of bar of prestige or importance e.g., only include people who have won international awards on the level of the Novel Prize or Pulitzer Prize. ElKevbo (talk) 20:40, 6 March 2019 (UTC)


 * Perhaps it would be better to follow the format you've helped shape on the Liberty University Page. I read your comments on the Liberty page to see how another politically active school is represented on Wikipedia. I initially worried that you might be doing Southeastern's bidding. I now doubt that is the case. I genuinely believed that a list of degrees would be the best way to catalog any political actions made by the university in the most neutral and verifiable way possible. I now think a comment you made in the talk portion of Liberty's page is more applicable. "It's critical for us to include the information about the institution's foray into politics because "[n]on-profits officially don't endorse or get involved in politics;" that's what makes the institution's actions so unusual and noteworthy!" I do not want to turn the Southeastern page into the raging war that exists on Liberty's page; however, Southeastern University has interjected itself into the political realm more in the last 18 months. I've researched every catalog produced by the school and I can't find a Democratic figure that has ever been awarded an honorary degree. After the Parkland shooting, Southeastern University deputized nine professors and/or staff members to carry concealed weapons. Kent Ingle, Southeastern's President, then appeared on Fox News to champion the idea as the country debated the merits of arming teachers. On June 25th Kent Ingle again appeared on Fox News to share his personal view on the immigration debate. I'm content to archive this at the present moment. If Southeastern continues to interject itself into the political sphere, we could reexamine. In the future, if Southeastern University, and Kent Ingle, continue to operate as a conservative political ideologue, it would a disservice to hide this information from future readers, future students, etc. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.56.91.52 (talk) 17:24, 7 March 2019 (UTC)


 * It's not our job to rank the political leaning of an institution or to evaluate where they have more Republicans, Democrats, etc. in some category. That would be WP:OR. These comments don't really address whether or not we should list recipients of honorary degrees, which is what this conversation is supposed to be considering.Jacona (talk) 17:51, 7 March 2019 (UTC)

Vandal
Edited to remove vandalism by 71.180.45.102. User was warned.--Wfyoung3 20:21, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Edited to remove another piece of vandalism. 66.177.72.223 (talk) 21:50, 19 November 2007 (UTC)

≥==Organization and Neutral Point of View== This page seems to be promoting the university rather than describing it in a neutral, encyclopedic tone. For example, the phrase describing the National Leadership Forum as "an innovative and creative approach to teaching" is subjective. Sections typical of university pages are either truncated or missing (ex. History, Campus, Academics). Instead, long lists of the organizational hierarchy and majors are given. Rather than listing majors, most university pages provide the total number of majors and minors offered, list the names of the university's primary sub-divisions like named colleges, and provide a link to the university's website for anyone wanting to know which specific majors are available. Long hyperlinked lists serve more to promote the size of the curriculum than to describe the content of the curriculum. As an additional stylistic note, there are more lists on the page than paragraphs. This should be an encyclopedia article, not an index. -Mabeenot (talk) 19:45, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

I am not seeing that, if that is the case though, please rewrite it