Talk:Southern Border Region (California)

This page should be speedy deleted
This is a duplicate of an existing page. There was a page called Southern Border, then it was moved to Southern Border (California), and after an inconclusive deletion discussion it was converted to the page San Diego–Imperial (California). That page itself is now up for deletion. Please let's not have any more iterations of this not-very-useful "region". --MelanieN (talk) 06:16, 10 June 2011 (UTC)
 * On second thought, this article is much better developed than the others were and almost persuades me that the concept is real. Maybe we should keep it and merge the other article into it. I'll propose that. --MelanieN (talk) 06:20, 10 June 2011 (UTC)

Renaming to Southern Border (California)
Also- if kept this article should be renamed to Southern Border (California) since many states and countries have a southern border region. The same should be done with all the other similar articles, if they are kept. --MelanieN (talk) 06:26, 10 June 2011 (UTC)
 * You've discovered the new article and added five comments before I got my first post done at Articles for deletion/San Diego–Imperial (California). As you will see from what I wrote there, I don't agree that there is any such thing as "Southern Border" California.  I am not opposed to Southern Border region (California), but I don't think that is the preferred title given Wikipedia's corporate wisdom.  Unscintillating (talk) 07:10, 10 June 2011 (UTC)
 * The name of this article should reflect common usage. From what it appears, looking at the sources, "region" seems to be capitalized. Thoughts? 08OceanBeach S.D.  20:23, 10 June 2011 (UTC)
 * It does seem that the Ghit count of "Southern Border region" is lower than "Southern Border Region". Would they not both be "common" in usage?  Unscintillating (talk) 23:30, 10 June 2011 (UTC)
 * They're both common I'm sure. But I'm saying should this article be moved to Southern Border Region - if it's more common? 08OceanBeach S.D.  01:16, 11 June 2011 (UTC)
 * I don't care about capital R vs. small R, or about the presence or absence of the word "region". I just want the article title to indicate somehow that it is California we are talking about. --MelanieN (talk) 03:27, 11 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Regardless of whether you care or not, it can still be discussed. The only suitable thing to indicate it being California, is to add ", California" or "(California)" at the end; as is standard. 08OceanBeach S.D.  04:54, 11 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Absolutely it can still be discussed. I just meant that the rest of you can reach consensus on the "region" vs. "Region" question                                                                                                           and whatever you decide will be fine with me. Sorry if I came across as snippy; I just meant to say that you all can do whatever you please on that issue. (And after you decide, be sure to put in a redirect for the other one; right now Southern Border Region with the capital letter is a dead link.) My actual input on the title is that I do want to see (California) added. --MelanieN (talk) 15:43, 11 June 2011 (UTC)
 * My experience in creating Great Palm Island, Queensland was that the people working on the Australian articles were more interested in shorter titles than titles with clarity, and the article was soon moved to Great Palm Island. It seems that the Southern California editors are preferring clarity, with which I agree.  I assume someone would still create the shorter redirects for when typing an entry in the search box.  But as long as we are creating clarity, we might want to do more than just the word "California". This ref refers to "each of the state's nine economic regions" and this is a web page about "California's economic regions".  So I propose that this article be renamed one of:
 * Southern Border Region (California economic region)
 * Southern Border region (California economic region)
 * Southern Border (California economic region)
 * This might also serve to discourage additions of a list of lakes and streams to the article. Unscintillating (talk) 19:08, 11 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Citing WP:PRECISION, the title should stay Southern Border region, since for now it is the primary topic on Wikipedia and only article to hold the explicit name. Otherwise, an sub-national offshoot of PRECISION, it could be named California Southern Border Economic Region; alternatively, the parentheses could be removed and the article titled California Southern Border Economic Region - rendering the same effect as the parentheses, but less messy. 08OceanBeach S.D.  22:14, 11 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Two of those proposals are the same, but regarding that name, I don't think that there is a reliable source using such a name. Unscintillating (talk) 23:48, 11 June 2011 (UTC)

http://www.labor.ca.gov/panel/espcaeconregions.htm shows the nine regions using all proper case, which seems to me to be a reliable source for capitalization. So I agree that "Southern Border Region" is preferred to "Southern Border region". Unscintillating (talk) 23:48, 11 June 2011 (UTC)

Table of California Economic Regions
As per WP:Precision, "Consistency – titles are expected to follow the same pattern as those of similar articles." Here is a table with three alternatives:

Unscintillating (talk) 02:45, 12 June 2011 (UTC)
 * The first and second columns are appealing - short and sweet. In the case of the second it purports that the regions are in California, which some would find appealing. The third simply seems long and messy; the mention of region twice appears as an unnecessary redundancy. 08OceanBeach S.D.  01:43, 12 June 2011 (UTC)


 * Based on 08OceanBeach's research, it sounds as if "Southern Border Region (California)" would be the best choice. It is clear and it is sourced. --MelanieN (talk) 02:38, 12 June 2011 (UTC)

Proposal
A merge into a newly created article titled Economic Regions of California that focuses strictly on the economics of the nine regions. In the event that the article becomes to large, then it could be forked and we could have articles with substantial content on each of the nine regions - if necessary. Until then I feel stub or start class articles on the California economic regions would draw away from the purpose, to represent the economics of California's sectors. 08OceanBeach S.D. 21:19, 10 June 2011 (UTC)
 * I don't think that this article is about the economy, it is about a geopolitical designation. I didn't label it a stub because I don't think it needs to be expanded.  FYI, Unscintillating (talk) 23:25, 10 June 2011 (UTC)
 * I wouldn't be thrilled about this idea; it seems to be giving way too much importance to a not-very-notable concept. --MelanieN (talk) 02:37, 12 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Isn't having this article alone giving to much importance to one geopolitical area? Better yet a merge into the Economy of California article under Economic Regions of California might be a better idea. It would also assist in the expansion of Economy of California. Just a thought. 08OceanBeach S.D.  22:07, 12 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Here are three California geopolitical areas none of which would have the status of a "populated place" and each of which is currently considered notable: South Coast Air Basin, Edward F. Ricketts State Marine Conservation Area, and Pacific Grove Marine Gardens State Marine Conservation Area (SMCA). However, I've seen that this topic in the past has been treated like a populated place, and I don't want to end up going back down that road.  Unscintillating (talk) 23:28, 12 June 2011 (UTC)
 * I see. I have no objections to you taking whatever means necessary to ensure that this article isn't treated like a populated place. The only thing I can see being done now is the move to a title with a capital "R", and as Melanie seems to prefer, the addition of (California) to the end of the title. 08OceanBeach S.D.  00:30, 13 June 2011 (UTC)
 * I just created List of California economic regions. I tried to separate the ideas of a "regional economy" and the "geopolitical region" associated with that economy.  It might not be obvious but the Wikilinks are keyed to the names in column 2.  Unscintillating (talk) 00:46, 13 June 2011 (UTC)

missing geo coordinates?
A bot just added a hidden category that this article is missing geo coordinates. Does this article need geo coordinates? I didn't see any coords on Asia. Unscintillating (talk) 02:18, 24 July 2011 (UTC)