Talk:Southern Intercollegiate Athletic Association

Untitled
I have begun the page on the SIAA. Since one quarter of current D-IA teams, as well as three current conferences, can claim heritage to this conference, I thought it would be a good reference. However, there is very little written on the conference that can be found online. The information I have listed here is compiled from the listed reference, http://www.cfbdatawarehouse.com, as well as some information about Dr. Dudley from Vanderbilt's website. However, I do not have a true complete list of who played in the conference and when. If anyone knows of any other references for this conference, please let me know. --ToddC4176 02:30, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

SIAA was not equivalent to SAIAA
This was a point of some disagreement over at the Maryland Terrapins football article, and I recently uncovered a lot of references which I posted on the talk page there. Anyway, the "South Atlantic Intercollegiate Athletic Association" (SAIAA) was an organization that seems to have been quite distinct from the "Southern Intercollegiate Athletic Association" (SIAA). I amended the following entries in this article to reflect this: Strikehold (talk) 00:01, 13 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Maryland: Never an SIAA member (only SAIAA; see here for a full discussion and sources)
 * North Carolina was in the SAIAA from 1907-1921 -- a distinct organization (see commentary linked above)
 * North Carolina State (then known as North Carolina A&M): An SAIAA, not SIAA, member from 1907 to 1921.
 * Virginia: Never a member (just SAIAA)
 * Virginia Tech: In the SAIAA from 1907 to 1921,
 * VMI: Never a member

Members of SIAA as of 1896 & 1897
According to Auburn University's (then known as Alabama Polytechnic Institute (A & M College)) 1897 Glomerata (yearbook), the following schools were members when it was published in the spring of 1897 (can it be inferred from that that they were members as of the fall of 1896?): Also according to the 1897 Glomerata, the First Annual Field Day of the SIAA was held in Nashville, TN on May 15, 1896 and included the following schools: Vanderbilt won four events, Auburn & Sewanee each won three events, and Southwestern won one event. According to the SEC, the first organizational meeting of the SIAA took place on Dec. 22, 1894, assuming the PDF is correct. That same SEC PDF claims that 19 teams were members as of 1896 (teams in bold match those in the 1897 list): Alabama, Auburn, Georgia, Georgia Tech, North Carolina, Sewanee, Vanderbilt, Central, Clemson, Cumberland, Kentucky, LSU, Mercer, Mississippi [State], Nashville, Southeastern Presbyterian, Tennessee, Texas and Tulane. I put more weight in the 1897 publication than I do the marketing material than came out a month ago.
 * 1) Agricultural & Mechanical College, Agricultural College, MS (now known as Mississippi State University)
 * 2) Alabama Polytechnic Institut (A. and M. College), Auburn, AL (now known as Auburn University)
 * 3) Central University, Richmond, KY (then part of Centre College, now known as Eastern Kentucky University)
 * 4) Cumberland University, Lebanon, TN
 * 5) Kentucky State College, Lexington, KY (now known as University of Kentucky)
 * 6) Louisiana State University, Baton Rouge, LA
 * 7) Southwestern Presbyterian University, Clarksville, TN (nown known as Rhodes College)
 * 8) Tulane University, New Orleans, LA
 * 9) University of Alabama, University, AL
 * 10) University of Georgia, Athens, GA
 * 11) University of Nashville, Nashville, TN (then called Peabody Normal College; incorporated as George Peabody College for Teachers in 1909; University of Nashville closed in 1911; George Peabody College for Teachers reopened in a new campus across the street from Vanderbilt University in 1914; George Peabody College became part of Vanderbilt in 1979.
 * 12) University of the South, Sewanee, TN
 * 13) University of Texas, Austin, TX
 * 14) Vanderbilt University, Nashville, TN
 * 15) Mercer University, Macon, GA
 * Alabama Polytechnic Institute (Auburn University): Four men
 * Central University: Five men
 * Cumberland University: One man
 * Southwestern Presbyterian University: Four men
 * University of Nashville: Four men
 * University of the South: Fourteen men
 * Vanderbilt University: Sixteen men

Also of interest is the 1895 SIAA Constitution. Earthsound (talk) 19:11, 29 September 2011 (UTC)

SIAA founded in 1892: members as of 1893 & 1896
Contrary to previous accounts I have come across, the Southern Inter-Collegiate Athletic Association was founded on December 30, 1892. According to The Sporting Life published on December 31, 1892 (and later nearly plagiarized by The Daily Princetonian published on January 6, 1893 (as a PDF, or view here as a Google Doc), "The Southern Intercollegiate Association for base ball and foot ball is now a fixed organization, and the principal colleges south of Mason and Dixon's line will engage in these games next season under the conditions of its constitution." Representatives of the following schools met at Richmond, VA in the Exchange Hotel with the meeting lasting all day:


 * University of North Carolina
 * Wake-Forest (typo in Sporting Life lists "Lake Forest"; Princetonian lists "Wake-Forest")
 * Sewanee, TN
 * University of Virginia
 * St. Johns College
 * Johns Hopkins
 * University of Tennessee
 * University of Alabama

According to the Princetonian article, Vanderbilt University "failed to send a representative, but expressed regrets by letter, and asked to be enrolled as a member of the Association, which request was granted by the meeting." The article says that a constitution was framed and that the "Southern Intercollegiate Association was selected as the name of the organization, and its object is to unite, foster and advance the interest in athletics in the South." Dr. F. P. Venable (Univ. of North Carolina) was chosen as chairman and Mr. J. B. Robertson (Univ. of Virginia) as Secretary of the meeting.

It goes on to name the "divisions", and lists them by state:

Northern Division: Maryland, Virginia & North Carolina (Univ. of North Carolina, Wake-Forest, Univ. of Virginia, St. Johns College, & Johns Hopkins)

Southern Division: Tennessee and Alabama (Vanderbilt, Univ. of Tennessee, Univ. of the South [Sewanee], & Univ. of Alabama)

Sporting Life goes on to list the election of officers: President, J. Breckenridge Robertson, Univ. of Virginia; vice president, W. S. Symington, Johns Hopkins Univ.; secretary & treasurer, Prof. W. H. Graham, Univ. of the South.

In the University of Alabama's 1893 Corolla (yearbook), on page 126, the members of the "Southern Inter-Collegiate Athletic Association" in 1893 were as follows:

Southern Division: Northern Division:
 * Vanderbilt University
 * University of the South
 * University of Alabama
 * St. John's College
 * Johns Hopkins University
 * University of Virginia
 * University of North Carolina
 * Wake Forest College

According to the Corolla, the President of the SIAA was J. Breckinridge Robertson, University of Virginia. The Vice-President was W. S. Symington, Johns Hopkins University. The Secretary & Treasurer was J. B. Wilder, University of the South.

In the 1896 University of Alabama Corolla, the membership of the SIAA is given as follows:
 * 1) Vanderbilt University, Nashville, TN
 * 2) University of the South, Sewanee, TN
 * 3) Cumberland University, Lebanon, TN
 * 4) Central University, Richmond, KY (then part of Centre College, now known as Eastern Kentucky University)
 * 5) University of Georgia, Athens, GA
 * 6) A. and M. College of Alabama, Auburn, AL (now known as Auburn University)
 * 7) University of Alabama, University, AL
 * 8) A. and M. College of Mississippi, Agricultural College, MS (now known as Mississippi State University)
 * 9) Tulane University, New Orleans, LA
 * 10) Louisiana State University, Baton Rouge, LA

In the 1897 University of Alabama Corolla, the membership of the SIAA is given as follows:
 * 1) A. and M. College of Mississippi, Agricultural, MS (Miss. State)
 * 2) Alabama Polytechnic Institute (A and M. College), Auburn, AL (Auburn Univ.)
 * 3) Central University, Richmond, KY (then part of Centre College, now Easter Kentucky Univ.)
 * 4) Cumberland University, Lebanon, TN
 * 5) Kentucky State College, Lexington, KY (Univ. of Kentucky)
 * 6) Louisiana State University, Baton Rouge, LA
 * 7) Mercer University, Macon, GA
 * 8) Southern Presbyterian University, Clarksville, TN (Rhodes College)
 * 9) Tulane University, New Orleans, LA
 * 10) University of Alabama, Tuscaloosa, AL
 * 11) University of Georgia, Athens, GA
 * 12) University of Nashville, Nashville, TN (then called Peabody Normal College; incorporated as George Peabody College for Teachers in 1909; University of Nashville closed in 1911; George Peabody College for Teachers reopened in a new campus across the street from Vanderbilt University in 1914; George Peabody College became part of Vanderbilt in 1979.)
 * 13) University of the South, Sewanee, TN
 * 14) University of Texas, Austin, TX
 * 15) Vanderbilt University, Nashville, TN

This matches the list given in Auburn's 1897 Glomerata.

Looking through the yearbooks of the other schools (as well as other records from the early-to-mid 1890s) should substantiate this information. Obviously, this article is in bad need of updating. If no one else does, I'll take a crack at it in the near future. Earthsound (talk) 05:08, 4 October 2011 (UTC)


 * See also the 2nd page of the first issue of The Tar Heel, a weekly newspaper published by the UNC Athletic Assocation on Feb. 23, 1893. Earthsound (talk) 18:46, 13 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Very interesting, confusing stuff. Cake  (talk) 07:31, 17 January 2017 (UTC)
 * Interesting, indeed. I never did find time to correct and clean up this article. I made small edits to my posts above to update links to scans of original docs that have moved. Earthsound (talk) 05:18, 13 February 2017 (UTC)

Florida state?
Got one source mentioning Florida State. Cake (talk) 03:11, 22 November 2014 (UTC)

Duke / Wofford
How does the Dec 1902 citation in this edit establish Duke's membership thru 1912 and Wofford's membership thru 1942? As your edits removed both Template:Citation needed tags, you're obligated to fully support the text of your edit. The citation doesn't appear to do so. UW Dawgs (talk) 06:51, 17 January 2017 (UTC)
 * It doesn't; I considered putting it next to 1903. Cake  (talk) 06:53, 17 January 2017 (UTC)

LSU ambiguity
There is some ambiguity about 1893-1895 LSU football. The LSU 2017 Media Guide, pg 107 shows some conference games, but not a conference affilations.
 * 1893 LSU football team (currently show as independent)
 * 1894 LSU football team (currently show as independent)
 * 1895 LSU football team (currently show as independent)


 * List of Southern Intercollegiate Athletic Association football standings (starts SIAA standings with 1895)
 * LSU Tigers football (currently attribute SIAA as "(1893–1922)")

Based on totality of above, I tweaked (reverted?) LSU Tigers football as "Independent (1893–1895)". Chime in as you see fit, but the content in these articles are now aligned re LSU (football) "Independent (1893–1895)." Cheers, UW Dawgs (talk) 00:02, 19 December 2019 (UTC)
 * Seems the right thing to do to me. No SIAA before 1895. Also odd to not be independent in one's very first year. I suppose it's possible they were in some Louisiana athletic association. Also possible the 1895 state championship confused for being in a conference like that. Cake  (talk) 00:59, 19 December 2019 (UTC)