Talk:Soweto

Image(s)
The first actual photo you see in this article is of a bunch of shacks. While this certainly exists, I don't think this gives a representative image of Soweto, as in reality Soweto consists almost entirely of actual urban housing (mostly low-cost/poor, but still actual brick houses on often or even usually tarred roads etc.) and has very few shacks like this. A fly-over in Google Maps/Earth confirms this - it's difficult to even find areas with shacks! If I knew nothing about Soweto I would get the impression that most of Soweto looks like this. I think this also isn't really in line with the way articles on other major urban areas in the world are presented (e.g. the London article's first photo isn't of the poorest spot in London, and even other world cities with actual worse slums aren't portrayed in as distorted a way). Soweto may be very poor compared to say what used to be the 'white suburbs', but not compared to the more hardcore townships and overwhelmingly looks nothing like the impression one gets if one looks at this image. There are townships that are mostly shacks, but that's not Soweto. User:David Joffe 11 June 2007

Part of the city of Johannesburg or separate?
It's not clear to me, from reading the article, whether or not Soweto is a part of Johannesburg. The "Demographics" section suggests that it is separate, but other sections suggest otherwise. Funnyhat 04:20, 12 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Soweto is today part of the City of Johannesburg. Its townships ("suburbs") have been divided into Region 6 and Region 10, administrative areas of Johannesburg. Since 1903 it was administered by the Johannesburg city council, then by the state. In 1983 Soweto was granted its own municipal status.

DocDee 17:38, 12 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Here is a clearer answer to the question put, and it comes from the Government of Johannesburg itself. Although Soweto was granted its own municipal status in 1983, it was re-integrated into Johannesburg after the end of the apartheid era as part of the new "unicity" of Johannesburg, along with seven other former suburbs of Johannesburg.  The population of Soweto itself is just under 900,000.  That number is included in Johannesburg's total population of 3.2 million.

http://www.joburg.org.za/unicity/overview1.stm At a glance The Unicity The municipal area covers 1 644 sq kilometres, with an average density of 1 962 persons per square kilometre. It is the densest urban area in South Africa. The unicity has merged into Johannesburg such previously independent satellite towns as Soweto, Alexandra, Randburg, Sandton, Roodepoort, Kyalami, Midrand and Ivory Park.

Non-neutral
I removed:


 * It is a troubled, spirited, exhilarating landscape of activity and regeneration, the child of incarceration, the mother of a new breed of liberty, the shame and pride of South Africa.

because that doesn't read like encyclopaeida material to me. Robin Johnson 15:39, 24 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Population
Soweto's population should be given. I read once that it was 5 million, but that seems overly high. Anyone know what it is?

Can someone please clarify: "Today's Soweto, incorporating Orlando, Dobsonville, Diepkloof and Dube, remains an overwhelmingly black-dominated city with over three million people.". The entire population of Johannesburg is listed as 3.2 million. How does the count work? --62.90.162.101 09:34, 3 May 2005 (UTC)

I'm not sure where whoever wrote this got the list of townships in Soweto from. "Gauteng" is the name of the province where Johannesburg (and hence Soweto) are located. It is not a township. For more a list of Soweto's townships, the official site might be a good place to start http://www.joburg.org.za/soweto/overview.stm


 * Note that the list at the above link is incomplete, as it omits "extensions" and "zones" to Soweto townships, as well as leaving out others that are usually included (e.g. Noordgesig, Race Course). DocDee 22:03, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

I am looking for the name of the first youth killed in the Soweto riots of, I guess, 1976. He has the same last name as a hero of the community on Lake Nicaragua in Nicaragua as I recall. Thanks. Bruce Graves
 * Hastings Ndlovu was the first youth killed in the Soweto riots in June 1976, but the photo of Hector Pieterson who died about the sametime became the iconic image that spread across world. --Jcw69 06:56, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

Removed paragraph without context
I removed the paragraph "After the riots the question "So Where To from now?" was asked in a drama staged by students at the University of Stellenbosch. See History of South Africa. " as its relevance and significance seems unclear.

For example:

a. The author does not clarify the nature of the drama in the context of the Soweto uprisings. Did it question the nature or causes of the events? Did it support or belittle what happened? The weight of this response seems far less than is necessary in a discussion of the death and destruction of those events. The line of discourse is unbalanced by its inclusion, as in: people who bore the brunt of 28 years of repression protested, many children were killed by the police, some protestors rampaged and killed others - and at Stellenbosch they produced a drama?

b. The rationale for including one particular Afrikaner response to the uprisings is unclear. Why is the response by this group more relevant than those by other ethnic groups, or by other Afrikaners?

c. The author fails to indicate why this particular action should be considered more important than others which are not mentioned, such as the works of Athol Fugard.

d. I could also not locate the reference to this event after following the link (See History of South Africa. ")

•"So where to " is an interesting homophone to know. The relation to the name of the township and suggestion to people asking "So where to?" has some significance to say the least.

DocDee 20:06, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

source of info to enhance page
http://www.soweto.co.za/html/i_research_doc1.htm 71.236.158.138 05:43, 7 December 2006 (UTC)Clare Strawn

So Where To
I have never heard of the "so where to" name, and I think it's just a joke that might or might not have had currency at one time. I'm sure it's not worth putting in the lead paragraph! --Slashme (talk) 12:10, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

issue with numbers
I haven't done any fact checking; however, this page describes the number dead at a peaceful protest to be five hundred something; however, the South Africa under apartheid page describes the number dead at 23. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.189.65.78 (talk) 12:43, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

Soweto uprising stats are wrong.
I don't want to be rude but this is one of the worst articles i have seen on Wiki. Personally i would blow up the the whole article pick up the shrapnel en fire it into outer space so that no son of mans eyes shall ever bestow such a load of rubbish. I see that in quite a lot of parts you use South African government websites as a reference. Please, is that really a credible source for an Encyclopedia? LOL. Let me show you a error that you can correct.. The students didn't want to study the Afrikaans language. So they burnt down their schools and caused chaos. I promise you the death toll was not that high in the Soweto uprising. You state that 566 died. But another Wikipedia article states that 23 people died. Yes and only 23 died! To quote Wikipedia 'The rioting continued and 23 people, including two white people, died on the first day in Soweto. Among them was Dr Melville Edelstein, who had devoted his life to social welfare among blacks.[9] He was stoned to death by the mob and left with a sign around his neck proclaiming 'Beware Afrikaaners'. When the USA launches a attack on a enemy force and two out of a total of 23 casualties are of their own men they would see it as an absolute tragedy, so really what is the significance of the soweto uprising in Human history. Zilch, Zero, it is only a political weapon to brainwash the South African youth into thinking that the Afrikaners are cruel savages. I believe that over 1500 white farmers in South Africa have been murdered in the Post Apartheid era. Rubbish like this should not be accepted. Misleading info like that is close to hate speech. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 143.160.124.40 (talk) 22:57, 28 October 2009 (UTC)

• Maybe you could give it a shot a try writing us a batter article. That would be highly appreciated

White people?
I understand SOME white people have possibly moved into Soweto, but is it large enough to be mentioned in the article? I doubt it can number in thousands, and the paragraph seems a bit more Personal opinion, plus no citations. Lets say.. 100 whites have moved in, thats nothing compared to the Coloured or Asians in Soweto, so why are they not mentioned? Bezuidenhout (talk) 14:14, 11 July 2010 (UTC)

•It would be difficult to estimate the number of other race populations in Soweto especially after previously excluded, smaller, areas being declared as part of Soweto. That many white people in Soweto? Maybe a quarter of that. Other races would be significantly smaller. My estimates though are only considering the original, if i may call it, Soweto demography.

2008 census
In the article (under demographics) it mentions that there was a "2008 South African census".. umm haha was there one? Bezuidenhout (talk) 18:13, 10 November 2011 (UTC)

Taxiways
I'm removing the link to taxiways under Transport > Road, because it links to a page which describes paths aeroplanes taxi along at airports and I don't think aeroplanes taxi along the M70, but if I'm wrong feel free to undo my change. I think ideally all occurrences of this word should be removed from the article and replaced with a less ambiguous expression, like taxi lanes (my best guess), unless referring to airports. Or else, if these are indeed referred to as taxiways, then somebody should create a page describing what taxiway means in South African English, link to that instead, and probably also add a disambiguation link on the taxiway page for people looking for the South African meaning who reach the page about paths for planes ...and vice versa. I know this seems like a really minor issue but I find it a bit strange. Sinisterstuf (talk) 08:54, 24 October 2012 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to 2 one external links on Soweto. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20130726060224/http://pennybrothers.co.za/soweto.html to http://pennybrothers.co.za/soweto.html
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20090419055146/http://www.anc.org.za:80/ancdocs/history/people/dube.html to http://www.anc.org.za/ancdocs/history/people/dube.html

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.

Cheers. —cyberbot II  Talk to my owner :Online 16:23, 27 August 2015 (UTC)

History of Soweto
I have been working on the history of Johannesburg and I am reaching the end of my contribution. I have started on Soweto. It seems to me that the history section contains a lot of nonsense and should really be deleted. I would like to chat to editors interested in the subject. Regards, Vaaljapie (talk) 13:43, 6 August 2016 (UTC)

Today (10 August) I am going to delete the following: The history of South African townships south west of Johannesburg that would later form Soweto was propelled by the increasing eviction of black South Africans by city and state authorities.[citation needed] Black South Africans had been drawn to work on the gold mines that were established after 1886. From the start they were accommodated in separate areas on the outskirts of Johannesburg, such as Brickfields (Newtown).[citation needed] In 1904 British-controlled city authorities removed black South African and Indian residents of Brickfields to an "evacuation camp" at Klipspruit municipal sewage farm[citation needed] (not Kliptown, a separate township) outside the Johannesburg municipal boundary, following a reported outbreak of plague.[22] Two further townships were laid out to the east and the west of Johannesburg in 1918. Townships to the south west of Johannesburg followed, starting with Pimville in 1934 (a renamed part of Klipspruit) and Orlando in 1935.[23]

World War I[edit | edit source]

Industrialization during World War I drew thousands of black workers to the Reef. They were also propelled by legislation that rendered many rural black Africans landless. Informal settlements developed to meet the growing lack of housing.[citation needed]

World War II[edit | edit source]

The Sofasonke squatter's movement of James Mpanza in 1944 organised the occupation of vacant land in the area, at what became known as Masakeng (Orlando West).[24][25] Partly as a result of Mpanza's actions, the city council was forced to set up emergency camps in Orlando and Moroka, and later in Central Western Jabavu.[citation needed] — Preceding unsigned comment added by Vaaljapie (talk • contribs) 08:12, 10 August 2016 (UTC) Vaaljapie (talk) 14:33, 10 August 2016 (UTC)

In popular culture
It'll be good to note that in the 1993 house garage style track "Soweto Stomp" of The Funky Fusion Band aka Lenny Fontana appeared. Link: https://www.discogs.com/Funky-Fusion-Band-The-Spiritual-EP/master/514432 Maciek.Wikipedysta (talk) 20:59, 20 March 2017 (UTC)

Pop culture music
Lauryn hill states "March through these streets like soweto" Forgive them father 2600:4041:40EA:7F00:9121:CBB:6325:2FB3 (talk) 04:00, 15 January 2023 (UTC)

There are two redundant entries in the "notables" section that refer to the same person / article.
Bonginkosi Dlamini (b. 1977), aka "Zola", poet, actor and musician

Bonginkosi Dlamini (b. 1977), popularly known as Zola 7, is a South African kwaito musician, actor, writer, TV presenter and poet.

my edit (deleting one) was reverted, which is "appropriate mostly for vandalism or other disruptive edits"

someone please fix this (I tried) and then (if possible) delete this post. thanks! 67.170.89.12 (talk) 07:37, 22 May 2024 (UTC)
 * My apologies. Now fixed. Conlinp (talk) 15:01, 22 May 2024 (UTC)