Talk:Spanish Ladies

More
More variation stuff. Strato22 03:36, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

More
Love this song, just wanted to clean-up a little bit, add a wee bit more facts. Strato22 14:28, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

Versions
As with any traditional song, especially one as old as this, there are as many versions as there are singers. I'm very glad to see this song having its own wp page, but I found it a bit stark to see simply "Lyrics", followed by the words to a version that's different to the one that I sing. Just to give a flavour - here's the first verse and chorus as I sing it. (I'd have to dredge the memory banks to go further than that right now.)


 * Farewell and adieu, unto you Spanish Ladies
 * Farewell and adieu to you ladies of Spain.
 * For it's we've received orders for to sail to old England
 * And we hope very soon that we'll see you again


 * We'll rant and we'll roar like true British Sailors
 * We'll rant and we'll roar, all across the salt sea
 * Until we strike soundings in the channel of old England
 * From Ushant to Scilly, it's thirty-five leagues

It's actually these kind of differences that make it interesting. For example, later in the song, I sing Deadman, while the given lyrics have Dodman. Why is that? Is there a historian in the house?

So, ideally, I'd like the wp page to reflect the nature of traditional songs and to note that the lyrics are only one version of the truth. This would be in keeping with the general WP requirements for verifying sources etc. Sure - the WP page for Spanish Ladies needs to have a version of the words, and at least one of the tunes to which it is sung (at the time of writing this comment there is no tune given - with a bit of luck I might find the time to give my version of the "minor" tune). In any case, neither my words and tune, nor those of anyone else, constitute the official and wikipeedickly verified right version. But.... the page would be nonsense without at least one version, so we must have one.

I'd like to know how we should deal with traditional content on Wikipedia. In this case, perhaps I have an issue with the citatation style, (or lack of it). I'm sure there are people who can act as experts to "expertly verify" this kind of page, but even if you have a verified reference to a source, there is no "right" version. Is it Deadman or Dodman? Sure - we can check the geography, but a version of the song where the geography is wrong is not wrong as a song. Discuss! Dominic Cronin (talk) 20:56, 4 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Fixed. Also, yes, Dodman is a corruption of the original Deadman. — Llywelyn II   20:39, 24 May 2014 (UTC)

Distance from Ushant to Scilly
Is there really a version of this song that claims 45 leagues from Ushant to Scilly?

Even 35 leagues means measuring from the northernmost point of the Scilly Isles to the southernmost point of Ushant. I have a hard time understanding how someone could add almost an extra third to the distance without noticing. Jack of Many (talk) 14:24, 18 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Your comment suggests to me a related point: that the "version" of lyrics should really be cited. I find it unhelpful for Wiki articles to claim to offer a "version" of a song without citing a source. It's a better policy to cite a documented, verifiable rendition, rather than make an "ideal" composite. So, as you suggest, "45" might just come from some "random" rendition by a recent singer who has no idea what he/she is talking about, and therefore is of limited use to consider as a variation. My recommendation is that you remove the "45" or add a "citation needed" note. Force the editors to justify the information.DrBaldhead (talk) 02:08, 19 April 2012 (UTC)


 * It's actually a little over 32 leagues from the headlands of the Scillies to Ushant and 35 was either an approximation or the distance between two ports on the islands. Obviously the 45 league variation was done with someone with no idea what they were talking about and no access to Google Maps, but that's no reason to excise it. People can document sources as they come across them. — Llywelyn II   20:39, 24 May 2014 (UTC)

Source needs verification
This could just be a mistake in the original source, but we need someone to check the (apparently only offline) source provided for the origin of the shanty. Our own "List of ship names of the Royal Navy" provides roughly no ship ever named the Nellie in British service; while that name was sometimes lovingly applied to various ships named Nelson, those only started showing up after Trafalgar and there wasn't so much as a hired cutter by that name in 1796. It only appears as a naval ship in Joseph Conrad's Heart of Darkness (although it's presumably meant for one of the Nelsons there as well), so we should make sure this isn't just clever vandalism or a transcription error. e.g. Roy Palmer's 1986 Oxford Book of Sea Songs dates the song to "1769" not "1796."

(If it was actually the name of a merchant ship in British service, that's fine. However, the article would still need rewriting as that would make the song a straightforward example of a shanty rather than the crossover it's currently described as.) — Llywelyn II   20:39, 24 May 2014 (UTC)

Blacklisted Links Found on Spanish Ladies
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Tacking
I'd like to question the statement about the ship tacking up the channel, why would they be tacking? "With the wind at sou'west boys" they'd be running before the wind or at worst reaching (this is backed up by the squaring of the yard). Running up the north side of the channel the landmarks mentioned are mainly the headlands you pass on the way.

Claim: 'The melody is also used for the "Streets of Laredo" ...'
Does anyone have citation for this claim? In my opinion, the melodies are very clearly different (comparing with both the minor and major key versions of Spanish Ladies). Streets of Laredo gets its melody (and most of its lyrics) from The Unfortunate Rake. Sung properly, they don't sound anything like Spanish Ladies... 2607:FEA8:1B9F:EDFE:E057:966:DFF3:21E3 (talk) 18:36, 19 November 2020 (UTC)

Asterix
In one Asterix book, pre-1985, sorry, that's going from memory, somebody sings "Farewell and adieu to you Gaulish ladies". Interesting as an "other media"? 84.71.73.160 (talk) 18:39, 3 May 2021 (UTC)