Talk:Spanish conquest of Guatemala

"Epidemics accidentally introduced by the Spanish "?
Uhh, wasn't the practice at that time by conquering Europeans to introduce these sorts of diseases deliberately? As for example the British giving the North American Indians blankets infected with smallpox: Smallpox_blankets. Old_Wombat (talk) 10:43, 6 September 2011 (UTC)
 * In the case of Mexico and Central America, this was accidental. The introduction of smallpox, IIRC, came from a single infected slave brought over from Africa. Certainly in the Conquest of the Aztecs, Maya and Inca the diseases ran ahead of actual physical contact with Europeans and were not planned - this unwittingly facilitated invasion since in some cases the ruler and all potential heirs were killed by disease, resulting in disputed succession and civil war. The Spanish in Mesoamerica were, on the whole, taking over advanced cultures with cities etc. and imposing a level of bureaucracy upon native structures, and using indigenous infrastructure against them, which was rather different from the situation in the north. I think there may have been some cases of disease being used during lengthy sieges of Maya cities and as I expand the article I will cover this where I find it. Regards, Simon Burchell (talk) 11:19, 6 September 2011 (UTC)
 * I've gone through many sources and I was mistaken - there is no mention anywhere of diseases being used deliberately. Simon Burchell (talk) 20:08, 24 October 2011 (UTC)

Effects on power dynamics between indigenous groups
I've heard that the Q'eqchi' were a much less important group, preconquest, than they are today; that the relative peace in their home territory, brought by Las Casas and the Dominicans, allowed them to expand their territories north and west to cover areas which had previously belonged to the more-severely-decimated Itza', Mopan, etc. This article doesn't touch those issues, but it seems logical to me. Homunq (talk) 13:17, 15 February 2012 (UTC)
 * I think that would be beyond the scope of this article and would be more properly covered in Q'eqchi' people. Although it may be a result of the conquest, it does not form a part of the conquest itself. Best regards, Simon Burchell (talk) 13:40, 15 February 2012 (UTC)
 * I think the effects on indigenous groups and their relative dynamics is relevant and ithin scope - as long as it isn't specifically about the Q'eqchi or any oter single group but about how the Conquest process affected indigenous politics in general.·ʍaunus·snunɐw· 13:43, 15 February 2012 (UTC)

Well, if either of you can point me in the direction of a good reference, a few sentences about Q'eqchi' expansion would probably fit quite nicely into the Land of War: Verapaz section. Likewise for changes in indigenous politics; a sentence or two would not be amiss in Legacy of the Spanish conquest. Thanks, Simon Burchell (talk) 16:46, 15 February 2012 (UTC)
 * You are completely right - that any such inclusion ould require sources. I personally don't know of any!·ʍaunus·snunɐw· 04:11, 16 February 2012 (UTC)

…gradually imposed Spanish cultural standards on the subjugated peoples… Most of the warriors who defeated the indigenous rulers consisted mainly of other native nations. In the subsequent years a large percentage of the native population, including indigenous allies, was wiped out due to a lack of immunity to introduced diseases from the Old World, more so than as a result of warfare. This allowed Westernized mixed race mestizos, who have outnumbered those of predominantly European ancestry since early in the colonisation period, to thrive and prosper at the expense of the native population because they were less likely to succumb to those diseases. And gradually over the next decades and centuries assimilated, voluntarily or through force, the remaining indigenous populations spread across the region. So it’s not entirely accurate to attribute it as a solely Spanish effort as that culture eventually became distinct from the one found in Europe. Even the so-called elites are not of pure European ancestry either, that is a fanciful claim that has no basis in reality. There has definitely been a bias among those higher up in the hierarchy in wanting to marry mestizos with fairer European features hence why over time their descendants may ‘look’ like they are of 'pure' European ancestry but genetic tests would show otherwise.

On to El Salvador?
At the moment, the article doesn't appear to mention at what point Alvarado left Guatemala and went on to El Salvador. I know the conquest of El Salvador itself is outside the scope of this page, but a mention Alvarado and a large army going there seems relevant to the conquest of Guatemala.

PS. I'm new to editing, but I think my first goal for starting a new page will be the Spanish Conquest of El Salvador.TCSaint (talk) 02:29, 25 April 2012 (UTC)
 * I thought I'd covered this but obviously didn't. I've added to the Pipil and Xinca section, detailing a couple more battles up to the point when Alvarado crossed the Río Paz. All the best, Simon Burchell (talk) 08:16, 25 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Looks great.TCSaint (talk) 15:16, 25 April 2012 (UTC)

Small capitals
If I found a couple words in SMALL CAPITALS, then I would change them according to WP:ALLCAPS. But here, where every line of a long References section starts with small capitals in a featured article, I wonder if everyone else knows something I don't. Art LaPella (talk) 00:27, 21 September 2012 (UTC)

Technology: Horses
Are horses technology, and how so? Hyacinth (talk) 00:32, 21 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Horses are not technology but the human use of them for riding or carrying burdens is.·ʍaunus·snunɐw· 00:42, 21 September 2012 (UTC)


 * Perhaps you missed or didn't read the second part of my question.
 * It appears that the technology article is incomplete, in that it gives no indication that the use of an animal by another could be technology. Hyacinth (talk) 01:39, 21 September 2012 (UTC)
 * I don't know why you would expect that article to be "complete" or why you would expect completeness to require such a description. The article defines technology as "is the making, modification, usage, and knowledge of tools, machines, techniques, crafts, systems, methods of organization, in order to solve a problem, improve a preexisting solution to a problem, achieve a goal or perform a specific function. It can also refer to the collection of such tools, machinery, modifications, arrangements and procedures." Which obviously includes the usage and knowledge of and techniques for using horses as a means for the purpose/goal/function of transportation.·ʍaunus·snunɐw· 01:46, 21 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Did I say I expected the article to be complete?
 * Would you be saying we should remove everything from the "technology" article except that introduction, as anything else is obvious? Or would you be saying the article should be incomplete?
 * If it is so obvious, are horses a tool, a machine, a technique, a craft, a system, or a method of organization?
 * According to your definition the military technology is definitely incomplete. Hyacinth (talk) 02:16, 21 September 2012 (UTC)
 * It is not "my" definition but the definition of technology given by the article you called incomplete. Do you have a proposal for improving this article or are you just interested in discussing semantics?·ʍaunus·snunɐw· 02:46, 21 September 2012 (UTC)

The article actually uses the phrase "key elements of Old World technology such as...horses" (my italics); the horse may not be technology in itself but its combination with wheeled vehicles, use for transport etc. does represent technology, and the horse is an element of that technology. Simon Burchell (talk) 09:36, 21 September 2012 (UTC)

Castilian vs. Spanish
All Spanish people mentioned in the article are Castilian, as Castile was the kingdom which conquered the Americas and send the initial settlers. Shouldn't the word "Spanish" be substituted by "Castilian" everywhere in the article except where appropriate to use "Spanish"? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.217.153.70 (talk) 16:12, 7 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Not all the people were Castillian, they came from various regions. For example, Martín de Ursúa was Basque. It is a great leap to call everyone Castillian, without having that based on solid sources. Lists of conquistadors of Guatemala include people from Galicia etc. The Spanish Conquest is the commonly accepted term, not the Castillian Conquest. Regards, Simon Burchell (talk) 16:37, 7 June 2014 (UTC)

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