Talk:Spasmodic dysphonia

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 11 September 2017 and 11 December 2017. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Sujinlim86, Yoclofro, Jdavid06, Kengjalrnvjwngj. Peer reviewers: Chelsea.osei, Reidh084, Axe30, Mil.sch.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 09:57, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment
This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Meertek, LaurieSlater.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 09:57, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

DAF
One person with spasmodic dysphonia reported that a delayed auditory feedback (DAF) anti-stuttering device improved his speech. Tdkehoe 03:30, 14 January 2006 (UTC)

Reports
There are instances reported in which singers have been diagnosed with spasmodic dysphonia in the singing voice, but not in the speaking voice--Krsbar 01:08, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

Restoring
I am restoring the subsection on abductor spasmodic dysphonia, removed by 67.188.121.101 on 3 October. No reason was given for its removal and it leaves a conspicuous abscence. Redglasses 21:45, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

Scott Adams
a link to watch: http://dilbertblog.typepad.com/the_dilbert_blog/2006/10/good_news_day.html —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 203.98.10.169 (talk • contribs).


 * Has it been confirmed that Scott Adams is the first person in history to recover from this? It looks like it's just hearsay from his doctor, who may have just told him candidly that he doesn't know of anyone who has. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 141.210.54.122 (talk • contribs).

He hasn't recovered. He still has a severe voice problem. What people say in writing and how they sound in person might SHOCK you.


 * I am going to add the word "known" in front of it for now. Kyle824 01:33, 25 October 2006 (UTC)


 * I have added a self-published tag, since we are using a primary source. As soon as a reliable secondary source appears (not some blog, please!), replace it and remove the template. -- ReyBrujo 03:49, 25 October 2006 (UTC)


 * I changed the wording to reflect the possible unreliability of the source (and removed the self-published tag)Gjc8 05:20, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

Here's a rather fascinating update:. Should something be added to the article about Dr. Morton Cooper's treatment methods and his allegations that the NSDA is biased because it receives funding from Allergan, the company that sells Botox? Esn 05:19, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Never mind, I just did it. These are, of course, rather serious claims and allegations, so it will be interesting to see what happens now. Esn 06:28, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Morton Cooper was once asked by voice specialists to verify his treatment results. That is, simply send their patients to these doctors, no charge. Seems simple, wouldn't you say? He wholeheartedly refuses. He also charges each patient $20,000 - $30,000 for his "cure" and not a SINGLE case has been verified as cured after treatment. He just talks and talks about them being diagnosed by all these macho hoopla doctors. But shies away real fast when asked for legitimate confirmation. It's awful he prays on such an innocent community.

If it looks like a duck...

Although Dr. Cooper has been known to be somewhat eccentric, I disagree with the last statement. My wife was diagnosed with SD in the late 90's and paid for a week's session with Dr. Cooper. She aggressively applied his techniques and today speaks and sings wonderfully. The misconception seems to be that Dr. Cooper is offering a "cure", as opposed to a "technique" that requires the patient to apply. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.222.117.173 (talk) 19:59, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

If Mr. Cooper had a cure or a treatment "technique" that worked, he would PROVE the results through blinded, objective ratings of post-treatment voices by outside specialists in the field. Come on, it's been years he's been claiming to "cure", "help" people, etc. How hard is it to do some double-blinded objective ratings of these supposed results? The that he doesn't and won't means he does not care at all about SD patients. Oh wait, that also might make him lose the shred of credibility he has among the desperate. Testimonials sell better as the general population is mildly naive. —Preceding unsigned comment added by DebENT (talk • contribs) 05:08, 27 January 2008 (UTC)


 * I added a blatant advertising tag for this treatment section. It reads like an ad, directs to his web site, and the ad copy appears to original research by Cooper himself.Jas public (talk) 15:17, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

Joe Hanink (talk) 07:33, 1 August 2008 (UTC) I can offer a testimonial. For persons suffering from severe spasmodic dysphonia, the choice of term "cure" or "treatment" is insignificant compared to the efficacy of such. It's results that we want. I personally met Dr. Cooper, and he was a gentleman to me, a patient. I did not follow through with him due to the great cost, but I view him as a voice coach that will work with you like a skilled athletic trainer who expects to be paid for his work. In the modern prescription drug climate of "shoot up first and see the effects later", this man should be amply rewarded for the magnificent and able work he does for the afflicted. Not only did I meet with Dr. Cooper, but I also read his book. Admittedly, it is filled with arcane and argumentative anecdotes, but there is golden information to be gleaned. After two years of struggle with severe spasmodic dysphonia and about one year of hard work and repeated sense of failure, I have finally found myself nearly fully recovered, largely by keeping in mind Dr. Cooper's mantra of speaking from the "mask" rather than the lower throat. See the section below in "Personal Experiences" for more information. The link at the beginning of the section is no longer available. Here is the original copy. https://web.archive.org/web/20061107115318/http://dilbertblog.typepad.com/the_dilbert_blog/2006/10/good_news_day.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by Zergworld (talk • contribs) 19:57, 10 July 2022 (UTC)

Jrishel (talk) 16:52, 29 December 2011 (UTC) Scott Adams, who I guess is Dilguy says he's edited this article in this blog post: http://dilbert.com/blog/entry/curing_30000_people/ here is are 3rd party articles which could be used as citations for much of his edits: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15446515/ns/health-health_care/t/dilbert-creator-recovers-rare-disorder/#.TvyaiVZfyuI http://www.wired.com/medtech/health/magazine/17-08/ff_adams?currentPage=all

Plagiarized?
Much of this article appears to have been copied/paraphrased from  http://www.medterms.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=13856. -- —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.226.229.241 (talk • contribs) Note that the first version of this article is marked: "text from http://www.nidcd.nih.gov/health/voice/spasdysp.asp U.S. National Institute on Deafness and Communication Disorders Publication No. 97-4214 PD-USGov". Anything on that page can be put back here. Also, it is possible that the medterms page has been copied for here. -- RHaworth 00:00, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
 * I've removed the plagiarized sections, keeping only the most obvious statements. Although the article is now in tatters, it shouldn't be deleted as there is plenty of opportunity for improvement. ˉˉanetode╦╩ 23:42, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks for clipping out the offending content. I'd rather have the article improved than deleted myself. --Aarktica 12:57, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

Sciencewatcher
Wikipedians, I'm not sure how we should handle the contributions of Sciencewatcher. He seems to troll Wikipedia stating that medical diagnoses are psychiatric (for example, see Chronic Fatigue Syndrome - discussion). This behavior seems to be meanspirited. Anyone else have any thoughts on how to handle this? Thanks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by E4043 (talk • contribs) 23:09, 24 September 2007 (UTC)


 * That is not true. I update articles to remove urban folklore, correct misinformation, or add alternative mainstream viewpoints to controversial articles which have a POV bias. POV bias happens quite a lot for psychosomatic illnesses, because many patients do not like a psychosomatic diagnosis. However that is not a good enough reason for blocking the information.


 * With SD (and CFS) there is sufficient evidence to say that the illness could be psychogenic or psychosomatic in nature, and many doctors and researchers share that view, so it really should be included in the article. You might not like it, but that is not a reason to block the information from the article, as you seem to be doing.


 * If you look at the reference I added, you'll see that SD patients have higher psychiatric diagnoses than patients with a similar organic voice disorder, so that would suggest that psychiatric symptoms in SD patients are not purely secondary to having a chronic illness. --Sciencewatcher 00:30, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

That is not true. You present a biased selection of articles that argue your point that patients with medical conditions are nuts, instead of presenting all of the data, most of which supports an organic cause to these conditions. I can't help but question your motivation and sense a malignancy behind your motives. I also can't help but question whether you carry a psychiatric diagnosis. Your behavior seems rather "pot calling the kettle black." E4043 04:12, 25 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Nobody is calling patients "nuts" apart from you, and that comment alone shows your motivation for wanting to remove the information.


 * I don't carry a psychiatric diagnosis (and it is rude of you to even suggest so), and my motivation is in giving patients all of the relevant information, which you seem to be wanting to deny them.


 * I agree that the psychiatric cormorbidity studies show incompatible results. However there is no actual evidence that SD is organic - no physical abnormalities have ever been found. And there is other other evidence to suggest that SD could be a psychiatric condition. --Sciencewatcher 14:51, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

Come on, you can use whatever linguistic spin you want to justify your position, but the bottom line is that when you push aggressively for a "psychogenic" or "psychiatric" etiology to a condition, you are doing nothing less than stating that the patients are nuts. I have no desire to deny patients any information -- as you can see I resisted deleting your silly article from Swiss Medicine Weekly -- I just think it's inappropriate that you have a propensity to push for a psychiatric diagnosis instead of being unbiased in light of conflicting information that supports an organic (medical) diagnosis. User:E4043 16:44, 25 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Interesting. Are you a doctor? What kind of doctor tells his patients they are "nuts"?! And calling the review "silly" just because you don't agree with it and saying the Swiss Medicine Weekly is "not a respected source" when it is a respected peer-reviewed medical journal certainly doesn't help your case.


 * All of the evidence you put in for a neurological basis is purely circumstantial. As I said, there is no definitive evidence. I'm not pushing for a psychiatric view - I'm merely putting in the information that you seem to want to keep of the article because you apparently believe that your psychiatric patients are all "nuts". There is no clear evidence either way, so the best we can do is to put all of the information in for both viewpoints. --Sciencewatcher 21:16, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

Symptoms?
Can someone please add a section on symptoms? It would help round out information on this disorder. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.104.24.226 (talk) 18:44, 11 December 2007 (UTC) Also, I recovered from spasmodic dysphonia from following Dr. Coopers regimine, living foods, relearning how to breathe (diaphragm breath).. only to have the phenomen resurface 20 years later. What I found this time around is vocal cords are fine, this is beginning Multiple Sclerosis. Now, I’m addressing that holistically as well, and it’s working. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.6.134.121 (talk) 19:08, 30 January 2022 (UTC)

Personal Experiences
Joe Hanink (talk)

'''NOTE - Some angry person has edited my "Personal Experience" with his/her own comments injected in ALL CAPS. I've left them in and corrected that person's dis-information at the end of the section.'''

Hello. To anyone reading this. The case of Scott Adams' voice recovery is truly remarkable [UPDATE: SCOTT ADAMS HAD SURGERY AFTER MORTON COOPER'S TREATMENT FAILED]. I happened upon this news some time ago, when I was suffering with severe spasmodic dysphonia myself... before I knew it had a name. I visited Dr. Morton Cooper in Los Angeles and read his book about what this condition really is and how it can be cured. I had experienced the full onslaught of the condition and had noticed its strange oddities. For example, singing, speaking in accent, and certain rhymes were effortless, yet normal conversational speech was literally impossible. It was definitely a case of "voice suicide".

Today, I am here to say that being informed by Dr. Cooper's studies, Scott Adams' encouraging experience [WHO HAD SURGERY WHEN HIS FAKE TREATMENT WITH MR. COOPER WAS AN ADMITTED FAILURE], and by applying a combination of strategies, I am nearly fully recovered. At first, it was extremely frustrating, and I had no guarantees of success, yet I had confidence that it was possible, so I kept hope and eventually, I started seeing results. It took exactly one year of active and passive approaches. I also forced myself to read a story to my 3 year old daughter every night for some time, using that as an opportunity for safe and reflective practice.

I am now able to do many things that I could simply not do at all, including

a) ordering pizza on the phone b) communicating in office meetings c) ordering coffee at starbucks d) chatting with the family e) normal everyday conversation

I am ordinarily very chatty, and similar to Scott Adams, I have bad allergies. Maybe I got lucky, and maybe this thing was able to heal after some time, but I can say beyond any doubt that Dr. Cooper's analysis and strategies are real and efficacious.

My name is Joe Hanink, and feel free to contact me personally at zergworld@hotmail.com

P.S. - I am amazed by Scott Adams's self-help [SELF-HELP IS FINE IF IT WORKS BUT HE HAD SURGERY TO ADDRESS HIS PROBLEM WHEN SELF-HELP DIDN'T WORK], and I feel no less amazed at my own personal recovery. I would add to Scott's assessment of the nursery rhyme the opinion that those particular verses are composed of sounds that emanate principally from the "mask" (versus the lower throat). By applying that basic and simple principle, I have reached where I am today. The application of this rule and the careful voice-consciousness that's required is not itself easy at first, but it becomes habitual, easier, and natural after time. Just like one with a broken leg may need to learn to walk again by becoming intimately in-tune with one's body and motions... like a pool player learning a different stroke... like a budding musician, it takes patience, practice, and quiet self-conscious reflection to become in tune with your voice. With that said, rest assured that you can succeed [IF YOU ALTER YOUR VOICE INTO A DIFFERENT PITCH WHICH IS NOT YOUR REAL VOICE -- YOU STILL HAVE SPASMODIC DYSPHONIA, YOU HAVE SIMPLY CHANGED THE WAY YOU SPEAK. IT IS NOT HEALTHY AND CAN BACKFIRE IN THE LONG RUN]. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Zergworld (talk • contribs) 07:15, 1 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Just an update that Scott Adams had a surgical procedure to address the symptoms of his spasmodic dysphonia. He was not cured by Morton Cooper or nursery rhymes. ***  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.90.103.220 (talk) 00:06, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

'''TO THE "editor" WHO INSERTED YOUR OPINION IN [ALL CAPS], that's pretty rude to inline your opinions as objection to my statement of personal experience. I would suggest removing your edits and write your own experience section, if that is what's driving your reactions here. Feel free to email me. Let's converse on your particular points.'''

I (Joe Hanink) never claimed nor portrayed that Scott Adams was cured by Dr. Cooper.

My comments about Scott were in connection with the posted article where Scott gives his first-person account of "improvement" based on "self-help". (That link is no longer active).

Here's a permalink to the original version -

https://web.archive.org/web/20061107115318/http://dilbertblog.typepad.com/the_dilbert_blog/2006/10/good_news_day.html

Through that article, I found encouragement in the idea that I might also improve from self-help and potentially avoid life-long botox injections or surgery. It is worth noting that I consider myself recovered and stable, though not perfect. I never resorted to botox or surgery. Maybe I'm an outlier, but that's fine.

Additionally, your dismay at the advice around altering your voice to a different pitch neglects the truth about its function as a discovery process. It is part of an experimentation phase to interrogate how one's voice responds under different conditions. I did not imply that it's an end state solution. You have to understand that advice around a method or process might help someone interested in trying an alternative before resorting to drugs/surgery. We should not decry the sharing of information intended to help others make their own decisions.

We should not discount techniques that might inform someone's journey to combat or overcome SD.

Most importantly, knowing that a thing is difficult and has no guarantee of success may foster a defeatist attitude of despair and preclude the hope necessary to support a good faith effort. It is therefore useful to offer encouragement to those who might benefit from it.

Finally, I had an email correspondence with Scott Adams about his experience with Dr. Cooper, and Scott indicated that he spent a week's time with him. Scott also said that Dr. Cooper recommended more time than that, but that Scott decided not to continue.

'''Here is a transcript of Scott Adams' reply to me. I'm sure he wouldn't mind if I set the record straight.'''


 * That's great to hear.
 * In the end, I couldn't do enough practice to make the Cooper method work, because my job requires me to sit in silence most of the day. And I think no two cases of SD are the same. But Cooper's method did help enough to make a big difference in my life.
 * Two weeks ago I had surgery at UCLA to correct my problem for good. For the next 3-4 months I will be in whisper mode until the nerves regenerate. I spoke to a number of people who had this surgery and it worked for them. It has about a 90% success rate. (I think Cooper's rate is probably well below half, maybe 20%. None of the four people in my group during my visit were "cured" but a woman who overlapped and came in just after I left was cured in a week or two.)
 * Good luck!
 * Scott
 * Good luck!
 * Scott
 * Scott
 * Scott

Scott Adam's blog entry explaining his experience with Dr. Cooper and his surgery - https://www.scottadamssays.com/2008/08/20/spasmodic-dysphonia-update/

This article no longer exists. Here is a webarchive copy https://web.archive.org/web/20210729130055/https://www.scottadamssays.com/2008/08/20/spasmodic-dysphonia-update/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by Zergworld (talk • contribs) 11:30, 10 July 2022 (UTC)

Also, FWIW, the link at the beginning of the Scott Adams section no longer works and redirects. Here is a perma-link. https://web.archive.org/web/20061107115318/http://dilbertblog.typepad.com/the_dilbert_blog/2006/10/good_news_day.html

Note: His story gives his account of identifying voice contexts - singing and nursery rhymes, which matches observations I made during my own ordeal. The similar experiences serve as a data-point for both the condition itself and the process of self-help.

Speaking while breathing in?
Does anyone know what the hell that means? I know nothing about this topic,, but that certainly makes no sense to me. Try it.

MarkinBoston (talk) 05:26, 1 January 2010 (UTC)


 * I just tried it, and I can do it. Seems pretty obvious. You talk while breathing in... --sciencewatcher (talk) 16:24, 1 January 2010 (UTC)

Cause
There seems to be missing a citation for this statement?

"SD is a neurological disorder rather than a disorder of the larynx, and as in other forms of dystonia, interventions at the end organ (i.e., larynx) have not offered a definitive cure, only symptomatic relief."

Would a sub-section/heading for psychogenic causes be required here?

Kathytheslp (talk) 00:53, 26 September 2016 (UTC)

Adductor spasmodic dysphonia
There seems to be a missing source when the author compares to symptoms of adductor spasmodic dysphonia and stuttering:

"These spasms make it difficult for the vocal folds to vibrate and produce voice. Words are often cut off or are difficult to start because of the muscle spasms. Therefore, speech may be choppy but differs from stuttering."

--Sujinlim86 (talk) 14:06, 20 September 2017 (UTC)

Linda Thompson
A reference link for Linda Thompson (38) doesn't work:

"Thompson's Trials: UK Folk Rock Great Makes Triumphant Return to the Stage". Tim Perlich, NOW Toronto. 2002-10-17. Archived from the original on 2007-09-29. Retrieved 2007-08-23.

Is it just me or for others as well? --Sujinlim86 (talk) 14:11, 20 September 2017 (UTC)

Updating Treatment Section
I think it will be worth it to look into updating the Treatment section. Some of the articles referenced are over 10 years old! I am sure there is good literature about the topic since then. I've done a quick search and compiled a few references to look at later.

If you have any suggestions or comments please do not hesitate. Kengjalrnvjwngj (talk) 01:16, 30 September 2017 (UTC)
 * I think this section is definitely worth working on. I found another source that may be useful for the treatment section, it focuses on the use of botulinum toxin and surgery as intervention strategies. Hope it helps! Jdavid06 (talk) 20:32, 30 September 2017 (UTC)

How 'bout treating the underlying issues? Given it's often seen as neurological, I wonder if medications that treat nerve conduction problems, such as 4-Aminopyridine or 4-aminopyridine-3-methanol have been tried or should be. I searched and found a recent article that should be useful for the article in general, but no answer. --50.201.195.170 (talk) 06:41, 13 June 2021 (UTC)

Updating Cause Section
I found an article describing the recent advances in identifying possible cause of spasmodic dysphonia. This article proposes family history of neurological disorders including dystonia and tremor, recent viral illness, and heavy voice use as possible causal factors on spasmodic dysphonia. Some of references in the cause section are more than 10 years old, so I will update some of the sources as well. Sujinlim86 (talk) 19:09, 30 September 2017 (UTC)

Updating Diagnosis Section
I think the Diagnosis section could use more thorough and updated information regarding the procedure for differential diagnosis of this disorder and the challenges involved. This section could also potentially include information on the signs and symptoms, such as perceptual voice characteristics, which may be useful in diagnosis (particularly for distinguishing between types of spasmodic dysphonia or other voice disorders). Any input or advice is appreciated! I found some sources for information on spasmodic dysphonia diagnosis of this disorder Jdavid06 (talk) 20:23, 30 September 2017 (UTC)


 * I am planning on reorganizing the diagnosis section to add a bit more information about differential diagnosis. I will add some characteristics that can help tell SD appart from MT dysphonia or voice tremor.LaurieSlater (talk) 20:15, 31 October 2018 (UTC)

Shania Twain
There are a lot of press articles that say Shania Twain had 'dysphonia'. Dysphonia is a very general term meaning hoarse voice. Someone with temporary laryngitis can be described as having dysphonia. Shania has never had Spasmodic Dysphonia aka Laryngeal Dystonia. Someone in my support group was at an NSDA (National Spasmodic Dysphonia Association) conference a couple of years ago and Shania's personal doctor disclosed that Shania had had MTD (Muscle Tension Dysphonia). MTD is a functional voice disorder and is therefore treatable with vocal therapy. Although sometimes people confuse MTD and SD, MTD has nothing to with SD which is a neurological voice disorder. I have therefore removed her from the list of Famous People with Spasmodic Dysphonia.SeaFern (talk) 18:33, 1 February 2018 (UTC)

National Spasmodic Dysphonia Association
Originating in 1991, the National Spasmodic Dysphonia Association (NSDA) celebrates 30 years of providing support and advancing knowledge, information dissemination and funding of medical research on this debilitating, life-changing rare voice disorder that affects individuals across the world. More in-depth and current information is available at dystonia.org.ConsumerWithSpasmodicDysphonia (talk) 21:19, 9 August 2018 (UTC)
 * This comment is kind of spammy... Doc James  (talk · contribs · email) 19:12, 10 August 2018 (UTC)

Article Evaluation
What else is known about "whispering dysphonia"? I'd like to look into this further. Additionally, I'd like to research more information pertaining to epidemiology, and perhaps introduce a quality of life section for individuals with SD. Finally, I'm curious about what else is known regarding pathophysiology of SD, and potential structural changes in the brain. Feedback is always welcome! Meertek (talk) 23:17, 20 September 2018 (UTC)

Article Evaluation
I'm also thinking about adding a differential diagnosis section, both for SD and MTD, as well as for SD subtypes. Meertek (talk) 21:14, 30 September 2018 (UTC)
 * Key is to find high quality references. Doc James  (talk · contribs · email) 00:36, 2 October 2018 (UTC)