Talk:Special Region of Yogyakarta

Pronunciation
So in Indonesian, is it pronounced yog or jog? Both pronunciations are deemed acceptable by Merriam Webster. I understand it was spelled Jog until the spelling reform. But both pronunciations are correct? --Menchi 03:27, 15 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * It's pronounced with an English 'J' sound, so it's 'jog' - I don't think I've ever heard an Indonesian person pronounce it otherwise. I think you're right about the spelling reform.  The usual name these days is 'Yogyakarta', but it's still commonly spelled 'Jogjakarta', especially in local use, and informally. Hmm, maybe the pronunciation should go in the article...  CDC   (talk)  03:31, 15 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * And the pre-1972 spelling for Jogjakarta was Djogdjakarta. This isn't very common though. Jpatokal 06:48, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
 * There is also the shortened name Jogja. Perhaps this could use a section explaining the names. Rigadoun (talk) 15:23, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

--

Yes, it is always pronounced Jogjakarta, but I have found it is usually spelled Yogyakarta. By the way, the article states that the central government "insisted on an election." However, in 1998 when the election was held it was "against the will of the central government." This makes no sense and should be clarified by the original author. (24.124.61.165 20:59, 25 May 2005 (UTC)) 117.103.0.6 (talk) 14:38, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

117.103.0.6 (talk) 14:43, 2 October 2009 (UTC) Being a Dutchman living in Yogyakarta myself, I consider the paragraph about the spelling and pronunciation incorrect. Also the remark on top of this one is not correct. I leave it to experienced contributors to review and change the paragraph, possibly after more extent research in the Indonesian community of Yogyakarta. The two spellings Yogyakarta and Jogjakarta are both very common, although Yogyakarta is seen more. Often the use is very mixed and confusing. The main railway station for instance (as a weird example) has both names on it's facade - apparently not on purpose! The pre-1972 spelling Djogdjakarta is very Dutch and very colonial: the DJ is the Dutch visualisation of sound of the Indonesian J - compare the Dutch colonial spelling Djakarta for Jakarta. Whereas Yogyakarta is the most common spelling, the abbreved version is mostly spelled as Jogja. Also the written logo of the city is Jogja with two big J's. The slogan is 'Jogja, neverending Asia'. And, confusingly and very inconstistently, even where the majority of people writes Yogyakarta, most of them pronounce the name as DyOGDyA(KARTA). Inconsistent, because in Indonesian the Y is supposed to sound as Y from Yankee - and not with an initial D-sound as in John. More in general: consistency of spelling and pronunciation in Indonesia is absolutely no standard - especially in names. Often a disaster. I am not a regular contributor, should anyone need to contact me, just mail me at wimyogya@gmail.com (!) 117.103.0.6 (talk) 14:38, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

Actually,both Jogjakarta and Yogyakarta are acceptable,altough Jogjakarta (often abbreviated Jogja) is more informal,while Yogyakarta (often abbreviated Yogya) is more formal,according to new spelling method,Ejaan yang disempurnakan (EYD). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 182.6.205.169 (talk) 10:44, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

I am a Javanese born in Kulon Progo, a regency in Special Region of Yogyakarta.

From what I hear, what I know, and after do some researches, this is what I get about the origins of the name Yogyakarta:


 * It's taken from Sanskrit name of Sri Rama's capital city in Hindu epic Mahabharata, Ayodhya (see Ayodhya).
 * And then it absorbed into Javanese becoming Yoja, with fullname Keraton Ngayojakarto Hadiningrat (DY->J).
 * And in Dutch colonial time, the Dutch used Djogja (or Djokja) to render its name (Y->DJ, J->GDJ) in Dutch language (same like Jakarta was written Djakarta).
 * It became usual to call it Jogja during that time (without D) by Indonesian nationalists or other non-Javanese ethnic groups (using Malay language, the lingua-franca at that time).
 * And then after Indonesian independence and standarized-Indonesian language (Ejaan Yang Disempurnakan, Bahasa Indonesia), it's standarized and became Yogya (J->Y, much like OE->U in Soekarno became Sukarno, or djang disetoejoei became yang disetujui), with fullname Yogyakarta.

Today, it's formally called Yogyakarta in institutions or by national government. But in informal, or among its native people, they still call it Jogja. While using Javanese language, people will still call it Yoja.

This en example to spell the name:
 * English: I want to go to Yogya.
 * Bahasa Indonesia (Indonesian): Saya ingin pergi ke Yogya.
 * Bahasa Indonesia (among its native Jogja people): Aku mau pergi ke Jogja (interchangable with Yogya).
 * Basa Jawa (Javanese): Aku arep lunga neng Yoja (interchangable with Jogja --but Javanese people very rarely use Yogya in Javanese language, they only use Yogya if they speak using Indonesian language).

That's what I get from various sources. Sorry I cannot put the sources because it's too many, I google it, and read some Javanese books. Please correct me if there's any wrong. Thank you.

Yofan Pratama P (talk) 22:51, 22 January 2012 (UTC)

Announcing Indonesia-related topics notice board
After some thought and consideration, I created an Indonesia-related topics notice board, along the same lines as other regional notice boards (such as those for Malaysia and Africa). This was established to coordinate efforts to improve Indonesia-related Wikipedia entries. If you've made contributions to Indonesia-related articles in the past, or would like to, please take some time to visit, introduce yourself, and sign the roster.

Geography cut?
Harus explain bagaimana dengan ini!?! Kurang jelas Yogya dissapear from geographic context! Because it is sequential it is vandalism. Desist! User:SatuSuro 11:58, 21 September 2005 (UTC)

a new jogja link
I found a new link about the city of Jogja. Though it's only in Indonesian language, I think it can be usefull for those who needed the information, but they have to know Indonesian language.

www.trulyjogja.com

What do you think? Check it out...!

Government
It's unclear from the current text if the Sultan is Governor for life, or for a certain period of time. It's also unclear whether the central government wanted him elected by popular vote, or if the election by the local parliament technically satisfied its demands while still keeping the status quo. It would be nice to have more information on the government of the province, in general; usually this kind of article has an entire section devoted to that information. -- Beland 23:06, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

split into two
I think the article should be split into two, one for the city and one for the province. This is how it has been done on the Indonesian Wikipedia. (You wouldn't let Mexico the country and Mexico the city share the same page, would you?). Unfortunately the Indonesian Wikipedia has NOTHING about the earthquake so far (on the Yogyakarta pages at least). If anyone who speak bahasa Indonesia better than me here reads this, please change that. (unsigned message).

The Daerah Istimewa Yogyakarta [acronym DIY] government and Kota Yogyakarta separation should definitely be split. Also the earthquake is not "the Yogya" earthquake, but is mainly within the boundaries of DIY. As for the Indonesian Wikipedia - put a request in whatever bahasa you have -in there!!! User:SatuSuro 03:45, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

Yes it should be split. As for the earth quake, it also struck strongly in Central Java province, notably Klaten. Houshuang 08:49, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Move Yogyakarta (special region) to Yogyakarta

 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the . Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. 

Yogyakarta, per above consensus poll--Aldux 18:36, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Suppprt - as per Indonesian wikipedia. The special region article can have links to the Yogyakarta (city ) article (Caniago 23:46, 26 September 2006 (UTC))
 * Support. The disambig page is a dumb idea. Especially with a link to the Yogya Sultanate. Who is going to type "Yogyakarta (special region)" into the search box? Also, given that in real life both the DI and the city are spoken about interchangeably, and here on wikipedia the city article has only 3 or 4 lines and that half the info is interchangeble i strongly suggest mergeing the two articles. This isn't pretending they are the same entity, ie the article can acknowledge both. But, a merge would be the step after the move. Let's concentrate on the move first. --Merbabu 00:15, 27 September 2006 (UTC)
 * it is unimportant for the article title what is put in search boxes. Tobias Conradi (Talk) 03:46, 27 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Support moved but not renamed. So, when a user search for Yogyakarta, just redirect Yogyakarta to Yogyakarta (special region). This is inarguably the primary meaning (special region). Cheers -- I   mo   eng  00:17, 27 September 2006 (UTC)
 * What do you think about merging the city stub into here? There is only 1 sentence. Sometimes (but not always) i think common sense and pragmatism needs to come before hair splitting technicalities. The difference between the two can be clearly stated in 1 article. If we are going to get official about it, is their an official entity Yogyakarta City with government and borders? --Merbabu 01:33, 27 September 2006 (UTC)


 * oppose. The region is NOT more important from a worldwide perspective than the city. City is very old, existet long before the region. Tobias Conradi (Talk) 03:46, 27 September 2006 (UTC)
 * I am confused. I agree that the city is more important than the DI (ie, special region) but is the proposal not to make "Yogya (special region)" into "Yogyakarta"? THus why do you oppose it? Personally, i am not convinced that the two must be seperated in Wikiepedia. Or at least, much of the info in the Special Region article actually relates to the city and this should be moved to the city page (which is currently a 1-sentence stub). I suggest making "Yogyakarta" for the city article with a disamb at the top for the "less significant" special region, and then move much of the city-related info from the special region article into "Yogyakarta" (ie, the city article). --Merbabu 04:23, 27 September 2006 (UTC)


 * as you see, some people say the region is more important. others say the city. I would say none is so important that it clearly gets primary topic status. Tobias Conradi (Talk) 05:24, 27 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Tobias, Imoeng is the only one who has said the DI is more significant than the city (which surprises me) but knowing Imoeng, i know he is a reasonable person who can change his mind if a good case is put to him. People actually agree with you on which is more significant, that is why they want to put the city as the primary page. They agree with your understanding of the issue, just not your solution. --Merbabu 05:33, 27 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Redirecting Yogyakarta to a DAB is a pointless waste. At present the city article contains 1 sentence, so it is also pointless to redirect the term to that article. The provice article contains the most information and so is the most appropriate set of contents currently. Someone needs to spend time to move city related information into the city page and when that is complete we can decide whether to redirect Yogyakarta to the city or the provice article. I suggest you take a look at the Indonesian wikipedia to see how they handled Yogyakarta (Caniago 04:50, 27 September 2006 (UTC))
 * it's not a pointless waste.

This implies that in 1068 Kedah, a state of Malaysia was conquered. This is WRONG. The federal state did not exist at that time. Tobias Conradi (Talk) 05:24, 27 September 2006 (UTC)
 * read Kediri: ... In 1068 Virarajendra ... conquered Kedah.
 * read Kedah: Kedah is a (federal) state of Malaysia.
 * Michael, although i haven't seen the indonesian language version i agree with your last post. I do not think that because it has been done before somewhere else (ie, Kedah), we need to do it here too. That's just silly if it is inappropriate. (there was even a justification involving Mexico and Mexico City.!!! hmmm). --Merbabu 05:28, 27 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Tobias, to most people (including people living there apparantly) DIY==Yogyakarta==Yogyakarta City==Yogyakarta. Most people don't know and don't care about the distinction, and certainly don't want to make a choice about whether to choose Yogyakarta (special provice), Yogyakarta (city) when all they are after is information about Yogyakarta. The DAB page is therefore pointless. By your reasoning we should created a DAB page for every single topic on wikipedia. Currently Yogyakarta (special region) is the best source of information and so should be linked to from Yogyakarta. I'm tired of wasting my time with you. Please do us all a favour and stay away from the Indonesian related articles until you gain some knowledge of Indonesia. (Caniago 05:50, 27 September 2006 (UTC))
 * Since the city is only one part of the special region I assume most people living in the region but not the city are very well aware of hte fact that they do not live in the region. The region consists of four (BTW not five!) regencies and one city. Please read the addministration section of the Yogya region article to find this information. Tobias Conradi (Talk) 06:17, 27 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Tobias, thats the problem we have with the changes you are making. Your changes are based upon assumptions rather than knowledge of the subject at hand. We would be better of if you made your changes to wikipedia based on knowledge of the topic at hand. (Caniago 07:00, 27 September 2006 (UTC))
 * Your last post is certainly not based on good information or if it is your brain misses the power to process that information. But maybe you only made an ugly attempt to defame my contributions, right? Tobias Conradi (Talk) 21:37, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Tobias, please cut out the bickering and name calling - it doesn't help anything. I must agree with Michael here that it is not overwhelmingly evident that your edits are adding much value to the subject, rather they based on a lot of assumptions and limited knowledge of the topic at hand - it seems you are making only superficial assumptions based on limited info available in wikipedia. Of course no-one should be discouraged from getting involved just because they are not 'expert', on the other hand, it is foolish to ignore the knowledge of others. If you had first-hand familiarity you would understand the ridiculousness of having Yogya City, Yogya DI and Yogya Sultanate all as equal partners on a dab page. --Merbabu 23:39, 3 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Hold on, hold on. What if, someone make an article about Yogyakarta, and I could be me, tonight :P, heheheh. I just think we need to be consistent just like every other articles, like West Sumatra and Padang, East Java and Surabaya. We always take the cities into account, why not this one? Although I agree, my suggestion has a disadvantage, that if the user put in "Yogyakarta", (if we don't prioritise anything), a disambiguation page is needed, but we oppose that. Because the major problem is the broken links, why not, make a page called only Yogyakarta, then we put two Yogyakarta articles here, just like a disambiguation page. As for the links, (i know this is a pain) we can link them with the "(special region)" or "(city)". How about it? Hehehehe, pardon me if its nonsense. Cheers -- I   mo   eng  06:49, 27 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Strong Support &mdash; The primary name of Yogyakarta is the region. &mdash; Indon ( reply ) &mdash; 01:45, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

NPOV dispute?
Is there any reason why this article is in the NPOV Dispute category?--Merbabu 01:47, 27 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Here was the text that was NPOV...also applicable are WP:AWW and WP:OR. Antonrojo 20:34, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

"However, many sides have negative opinion about the position of Sultan in ruling the Special Region as governor. First, it degrades him from being the holy, infallible and revered Sultan, as governor deals with politics and social matters that may not be all things for all people. Secondly, unconsciously it will revert back to the old system of feudalism when a Sultan, without any election, is automatically appointed to hold an administrative position of power (as a governor), within the republic state system adopted by Indonesia."

Support high quality for Indonesia related articles
AFAIK the city is very old, the special region is new. IMO the special region is not the most important, I never heard of it before, but I heard of the city a lot. Others may know more about the Sultanate. Nothing is primary topic. Therefore Yogyakarta should be the dab page. Having it the dab forces other people to make their links more precise. Currently it is not clear whether people really intended to link to the region, the city, or the sultanate. Indonesia like any other country deserves high quality linking. Tobias Conradi (Talk) 03:51, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

Caniago: Tobias, it is very clear from some of your comments that you know nothing about Indonesia

 * Tobias, it is very clear from some of your comments that you know nothing about Indonesia, and yet you think you can just go around renaming every article to suite wahtever misinformed urge you have. Please stay away from moving and editing any of the Indonesian articles until you gain some knowledge about the country. (Caniago 05:32, 27 September 2006 (UTC))
 * It may be due to your IQ, or to limited background knowledge of Indonesia on your side, or a limited processing power of your brain that "it is very clear" to you that I know nothing about Indonesia. But this is not so clear to other people. I suggest you increase your capability of logical thinking. Tobias Conradi (Talk) 05:45, 27 September 2006 (UTC)
 * lol - that's hilarious. I also like "You didn't have permission to use my talk page". --Merbabu 06:00, 27 September 2006 (UTC)
 * where did I write "You didn't have permission to use my talk page"? Tobias Conradi (Talk) 06:11, 27 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Oh come one - on your talk page. You know it. For the benefit of others: "why do you write on my talk page before discussing first? Who gave you permission?" --Merbabu 06:32, 27 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Tobias, I'm not the one moving dozens of pages without first consulting people, thereby breaking hundrends of links to these pages. I find insults from you meaningless (Caniago 06:02, 27 September 2006 (UTC))
 * Tobias - watch how you talk to people. Editors who continue in such an uncivil manner don't last as editors - if you know what i mean. I also suggest you compare Michaels contribs on Indonesia over a long time, and then compare them to your own. --Merbabu 05:59, 27 September 2006 (UTC)
 * If Wikipedia decides to have people like Caniago that make absolutly illogical statements stay and me who points out the mistakes than I say: so be it. I am not here to be your or Michaels servant. Re-read what wrong conclusions he made. That he made more contributions to Indonesia related articles may be true, but that does not make wrong judgements right judgements. Tobias Conradi (Talk) 06:06, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

(reset tab) See WP:CIVIL. I don't see any requirement that the people you be civil to be logical or right. Antonrojo 20:29, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Tobias, by your logic we should have DAB pages for every article on wikipedia. Why don't you create one for Sydney, New York, Jakarta, London? After all, there are other meanings for these terms too. (Caniago 06:22, 27 September 2006 (UTC))
 * Michael, we do have disambiguation pages for all of those except Jakarta. Presumably you mean 'disambiguation on the name itself' rather than at a 'Name (disambiguation)' page. However, the standard practice actually IS to disambiguate at 'Name'... we only change that and use 'Name (disambiguation)' instead when there is one item which users of the English language Wikipedia are overwhelmingly more likely to be looking for than the others. Thus 'Paris' goes directly to the city in France because 99% of the time that is what people are going to be looking for... rather than the mythological figure or the ghost town in the Yukon. Is one of the Yogyakartas overwhelmingly better known / more likely to be searched for by users of this site than the others? A google search actually seems to show the city most often due to the tourism industry there. When a random user creates a link to "Yogyakarta" are they almost certainly going to be thinking of one vastly more frequently mentioned place or could it be any of them? Looking at a handful of existing links at random those in Affandi, Bedhaya, and Treaty of Gianti Java all seem to be intended to refer to the city. The standard is supposed to be 'ease for the users'... both in searching and creating new links. If they could be searching or linking to alot of different things (e.g. Phantom) then we go to a disambiguation page first. If they are almost certainly trying to search/link one thing in particular then we can go to that thing. Based on my quick analysis it seems almost as if you might be able to make a case for going directly to the city... but there might be reasons that the others would be commonly used too and thus no single overwhelmingly likely usage... which would suggest the name itself should be a disambiguation page. --CBD 11:52, 27 September 2006 (UTC)
 * I'm fine with the Yogyakarta displaying Yogyakarta (city) by default. This wasn't an option at the time of my initial move proposal since the city article contained only a single sentence. (Caniago 11:58, 28 September 2006 (UTC))
 * Me too I think that the city may be the most searched for of the three topics. To insure high quality in linking I would still make Yogya the dab page. There are persons in WP that check whether links go to dab pages. There are editors that then change the links to the more precise topics. If we have Yogya as dab we will in the long term ensure that city links will be made to "Yogya (city)". The result is that accidental links to the city are reduced. With Yogya being a redirect to Yogya (city), there may be links to the city even if the link to the region would be correct. And these links may go unnoticed for a long time. best regards Tobias Conradi (Talk) 20:14, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

Analogous situation
Kyoto - displays Kyoto city, not a DAB page, even though there is also Kyoto Prefecture and the Kyoto Protocol (Caniago 07:44, 4 October 2006 (UTC))

violating WP dab rules/ common practice
There is no evidence that english users would overwhelmingly associate "Yogyakarta" with "Yogyakarta Special Region". The move is illegal. Tobias Conradi (Talk) 17:28, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
 * While i don't necessarily disagree, can you explain why it is "illegal". As i understand there is almost nohing on wikipedia that is "illegal" but perhaps you mean it is against generally agreed guidelines. The important ting to remember is to work collaboratively, not solo. Could you provide a reference. thanks --Merbabu 00:51, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

Requested move

 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the proposal was procedural close per Crisco below. --BDD (talk) 17:38, 23 January 2013 (UTC)

Special Region of Yogyakarta → Yogyakarta Special Region – Word order as written in the article and common style in Wikipedia. The type of object is added at the end: New York City, King County, Kuta District, Badung Regency, Riau Islands Province. AsianGeographer (talk) 15:04, 2 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Comment No preference on this one.  Both formats are used extensively on Wikipedia.  The consensus here in the United Kingdom is for England to use Borough of Fylde or City of Salford, while for Wales we use Conwy County Borough or Bridgend County Borough.  Perhaps the format to be used for Indonesia would be better discussed at WikiProject Indonesia first, in order to be consistent across articles on the country.  Skinsmoke (talk) 23:04, 4 January 2013 (UTC)
 * More extensively used is the proposed format. UK, Ireland, Australia are rare exceptions. For non-native English countries such exceptions are nearly not existing. Thousands of articles use the proposed format. AsianGeographer (talk) 06:04, 5 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Find out which is most common in the English literature. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 23:28, 4 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Comment This should probably be speedily closed, as there is no support except for the nominator (a blocked sock) — Crisco 1492 (talk) 00:26, 22 January 2013 (UTC)
 * ✅ --BDD (talk) 17:38, 23 January 2013 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

grammar issue?
"Indonesia has only geo-heritage sites in Yogyakarta" - What does this mean? Indonesia has only THE geo-heritage sites in Yogyakarta OR Indonesia has geo-heritage sites JUST in Yogyakarta? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.90.202.179 (talk) 07:20, 10 March 2015 (UTC)

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