Talk:Speedcore

Untitled
You guys have the BPM's wrong. Speedcore genericyl resides around 240bpm witch 16th notes are the reason why it sounds so fast. Actually setting tempo markers to lets say 1000bpm is really messy and hard to work with. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.2.224.93 (talk) 08:43, 2 May 2013 (UTC)

Are "Max 300" and "Paranoia Survivor Max" from Dance Dance Revolution speedcore? --Damian Yerrick 22:54, 19 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * I'd say no. Most, if not all, speedcore tracks would offend or annoy most listeners due to harsh elements in the track. Hence why I mentioned it has similarities to noise music. If a speedcore track of my choosing were to be played on DDR then there would be noone watching. :)
 * To be honest I don't know the tracks you speak of personally, but I imagine it would be more closely related to Hi-NRG or something a bit broader. Airconditioning 02:41, Nov 29, 2004 (UTC)
 * While game music doesn't usually deserve proper classification, and sometimes is very hard to classify due to the fact that artists don't conform to the same bounds that most conventional artists do, while Konami refers to MAX300 as Techno, and Paranoia Survivor MAX as rave (I think), the former would probably be best described as (rather offensive) sped-up tribal techno and the latter would probably fit under sped-up (more than double speed) hard trance with elements of drum & bass thrown in for effect. Both tracks lack a conventional beat (never mind the fact that MAX300 is actually 150 BPM) and thus cannot conform properly to normal specifications.

BPM rated too high
Starting the range at 300 BPM leaves out a huge community of musicians in Japan (and supposedly parts of Europe, but I can't vouch) that call themselves Speedcore (and rightfully so). There's a reason it's called 'speedcore' and not 'really fast music'; it could be said that it's part of the same 'musical species' as hardcore, breakcore, etc. That being said a better definition of speedcore would be fast hardcore, or fast gabber, but this is generalizing. Basically I believe the lower bracket starts at about 180/190 BPM, but that really would be 'fast hardcore' so 200 is reasonable. Speedcore is largely shunned as being 'non-musical' but there's loads of musical speedcore in Japan and it rarely approaches 300 BPM, but nobody would call it anything but speedcore, or at least 'super gabber'. The unique style is unmistakeable; massive overuse of samples and stabs, it's definitely not hardcore. It may be a bit 'goofier' than European speedcore but I feel it deserves a mention. See DJ Sharpnel/Speedfreak. freshgavin 2005 07 15 Yep, and just to add to that; 300 bpm is how fast the stepchart/arrows goes not the actual music.

Artists external links
I've culled the list down to two, where those two artists actually have articles. Before it was nothing but a linkfarm of non-notable artists. If they're notable, they should have articles, and not be simple self-promotional links. Perhaps the same could be applied to the record labels, unless a few without articles really are notable, but I won't do it because I don't know about it. --Dane ~nya 13:41, 23 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Going to do the same. If they don't have articles, they can't really claim notability can they? Blackmetalbaz (talk) 14:05, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

Remove Links
Links to extratone and splittercore (more subgenres of subgenres....great) redirect. The article itself makes no mention of these freak genres. Let us remove them entirely. -Gates —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.71.61.151 (talk) 00:50, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Other Genres
Can we encorperate other genres into this article, like Lolicore?


 * If you can find legitimate sources for it, then go ahead. Though I like lolicore myself, I've only seen reference to it on Last.fm, and I find anything there rather suspect as they both allow user editing and don't require enforce citations. – mpdimitroff (talk) 16:39, 8 July 2009 (UTC) – edit 07:19, 24 July 2009 (UTC)
 * P.S. Don't forget to sign your talk posts with four tildes: ~

Complete Bollocks

 * um, 50hz (3000bpm) is about the lowest tone that can be heard, therefore music faster than this will be indistinguishable from a hum. why is this article allowed to exist unchallenged? --81.158.252.50 (talk) 21:13, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

The bmp is in reference to the speed of the music, not the tone. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88AdolfLover88 (talk • contribs) 05:56, 10 May 2010 (UTC)


 * Tracks with a speed as high as 3000 BPM would be referred to as "extratone" because even though the sound is created by a really fast (digital) drumbeat, it's perceived as a tone or a hum to the listener. Jiiimbooh (talk) 04:52, 26 May 2012 (UTC)

Check these sites
http://www.discogs.com/

http://ush.net/board/index.php

Those are just 2 sites. Speedcore is anything from 250 to maybe 300 bpm. Terrorcore/splittercore/horrorcore is anything above 300 bpm. Anyone from North Radical Technology would have been able to tell you that. I will give you a week to change it before i edit it all and start from scratch Pineappletree50 (talk) 22:34, 21 September 2011 (UTC)

Advertising
The job of an encyclopedia is to give out facts about its subjects. This article doesn't seems, to me, somewhat biased in this respect. In my honest opinion, the mentions about Roland products being "the choice of many producer" is completely unnecessary and deserves to be removed as soon as possible. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.93.2.114 (talk) 21:35, 19 December 2013 (UTC)

and it s also wrong. very few producers used roland synths... RotelloItalia (talk) 12:32, 19 April 2018 (UTC)


 * I know one of the people who'd edited this before personally and I can say with certainty that a lot of the edits were done by a fan/producer rather than a neutral party. I remember for a period that my own artist name was mentioned here for a period before being removed for being pointless advertising. I can provide a bit of information but I will not write in the actual page as I am a biased party. Thanks, happy editing. :)
 * Aribattybelle (talk) 00:49, 3 June 2024 (UTC)

Agree about removing Roland
.. Speedcore is almost dead now (2016) and has been like that for almost 10 years now. If I ve to advertise something i ll do it for Trackers (FT2 above them all) or Renoise... but I don't know how many speedcore producers own a roland (and i know many of them) — Preceding unsigned comment added by RotelloItalia (talk • contribs) 04:39, 9 February 2016 (UTC)

Speedcore Update
(2018) I am new to wikipedia so excuse me if I get anything wrong here. Anyways, I am a Speedcore producer and have been producing this genre of music for 2 and half years. I follow the community a lot and I plan on editing this page and adding more sources later on. As the people above said I do not believe that the Roland is relevant to the article. Most producers these days are using computers and midis to produce their songs. Very few musicians own Rolands. As for the BPM discussion. Early years of speedcore had different definitions. However, today Speedcore is defined as being from 300BPM to 999BPM with Splittercore being a subgenre of Speedcore at 600-999BPMs. Extratone starts at 1000 BPM even though a tone is not created until much higher BPM like 2000-3000BPM. Terrorcore is often said to be between 200-299 BPM. I have personally created songs that are above 300 BPM. It is possible. I also know much about the history of Speedcore and it's origins. I will write about this when I have gathered more information. I would also like to say that Speedcore is not dead. You just have to know where to look. There is many netlabels available today that produce this genre. Some other subgenres of Speedcore include but are not limited to: Flashcore, Lolicore, Splittercore, Dancecore. Cybergrind should be noticed for having some crossing over with Speedcore.

CatSpat (talk) 14:33, 4 April 2018 (UTC)

Edited Notable Related Events
I think that the world "concert" is wrong in this context: imho party and event are better (but english is not my first language)

RotelloItalia (talk) 12:30, 19 April 2018 (UTC)

Regional Scenes
Perhaps concert is the wrong word. Party is a good word or live performance. I am not sure how to cite the regional scenes. I know according to discogs that those countries are producing a lot of the speedcore releases. There are quite a few live performances in Netherlands and Germany. Does anyone have some sources to say that these countries are regional scenes?

CatSpat (talk) 17:57, 19 April 2018 (UTC)

Broken link?
Is it intended that the link for m1dy redirects to the Japanese wikipedia? 2.247.252.124 (talk) 11:40, 1 January 2019 (UTC)

Academic sources needed
I wouldn't know where to start looking for sources, but even to my relatively untrained eye it's quite apparent that this article is conflating the BPM settings in digital audio workstations with the more traditional concept of tempo in a way that's likely to prove misleading to readers. Most of the sources used in this article seem to be blog posts (please correct me if I'm wrong), and while  The Rough Guide to Rock: The Definitive Guide to More Than 1200 Artists and Bands seems likely to be a reliable source overall it is only used here to source a passing mention of Moby releasing a single with an improbably high tempo. The Bandcamp articles also seem decent for mainstream general-audience coverage, with the caveat that Bandcamp is also a music retailer that has a vested interest in drumming up interest in particular artists or styles of music, with at least one of them addressing the issues of human perception regarding alleged extraordinary tempos.

This comes back to the music theory issue at hand. If your crotchet is marked at 300 BPM then a drum continuously playing semiquavers is going to be being hit at 1200 BPM, which the human ear is going to perceive as a 20 Hz tone rather than a rhythm. While a DAW or sheet music may present tempo as a fixed objective aspect of the music, in reality it's far more subjective. The same piece of music can very easily be regarded as being either at 60 BPM or at 240 BPM (or indeed as being at both 60 BPM and 240 BPM) depending on how one decides to perceive the note values and depending on which note value one decides to define as being the beat.

In general I think any claim that a piece of music has a tempo above 300 BPM should be treated with some scrutiny, and any claim that a piece of music has a tempo above 500 BPM should need an awful lot more than just blog posts and passing mentions in general-audience sources to back up the claim. Is the song actually at 1680 BPM, or did the producer just set the tempo in their DAW to "1680 BPM" before composing a track which most people would perceive as having a tempo of 210 BPM?

HumanBodyPiloter5 (talk) 09:01, 9 March 2023 (UTC)


 * You should see what it looked like months ago, when several editors insisted on including subgenres like "hypertone" (1.2 million bpm, no less) and sourced most everything to discogs. I remember adding the Spannered source, which is a continuation of early 2000s music websites Musicalbear and Overload Media, but I don't know anything about its editorial oversight. It does reference a few published books/articles. 70.163.208.142 (talk) 19:13, 10 March 2023 (UTC)
 * So I am a Speedcore musician so I'll give some context. Speedcore determines BPM by the speed at which the drum pulses, while it may technically be correct to determine BPM or Tempo, by the melody or overall sound the BPM is put as the speed of the kicks as the drums are the biggest part of Speedcore. So I mean you could say that a song has a BPM of 150 due to the melody of the and the synths, but playing non stop 16th note kicks. Speedcore chooses to focus on the speed of the kicks instead of the synths because Speedcore revolves around the absurdly fast kick drums. So when they are mentioning BPMs of high levels like that they are referring to the speed of the kicks assuming the kicks are quarter notes of 4/4. You could argue that the music is whatever lower BPM with eighth notes or sixteenth notes. As for Extratone or Hypertone I have no real comments as it isn't something I really do, but it is known in the community that Extratone becomes a single frequency so at that point it's not really a kick anymore, but it's more of an aesthetic, as for hypertone I think it's stupid and not real because it leaves human hearing and they are amplifying undertones, but there is a whole culture for it who is really dedicated to that. Let me know if you have any other questions. Cheers CatSpat (talk) 01:32, 10 May 2023 (UTC)
 * About Hypertone. That kind of music is supposed to be inaudible and even "physically impossible" at some high tempos. As an example, 10^100 bpm is not possible because of the limitations of our universe (plank frequency being the theoretical limit).
 * Therefore this genre should be perceived as "Unperformable Music". Usually to get a "Hypertone tone" of some bpm people speed up an audio file, copy-paste it and repeat, and assume you can infinitely speed up an audio file. I'd compare it to something like "Bignum Bakeoff" even though Hypertone is a lot more straightforward. It may become something interesting in the future.
 * The biggest issue with it is "fake Hypertone". Some people claim they've reached ee+1001 bpm or so, this isn't possible without a clever trick and they can't explain how they did it. Windogs95 (talk) 21:28, 11 May 2023 (UTC)
 * while it is difficult to confirm extremely high BPMs along with those high BPMs having most of the beats skipped, the genre is still very real. yes, hypertone songs require amplification in order to be heard and yes, most of the beats are skipped. HOWEVER, that number is still real, if impossible to hear. so any song exceeding planck frequency might not be audible in the same way it should be, however that tone's BPM is still real. 47.206.162.40 (talk) 18:07, 20 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Still needs a source. 70.163.220.139 (talk) 21:41, 20 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Tempo in Speedcore is about a certain frequency at which a drum is played. If a track has a drum playing at a frequency of 1680 bpm, the track IS 1680 bpm. A person can perceive it as a slower tempo as easily as one can perceive it at the one Speedcore artists claim.
 * If a Supertone track has a very high bpm of 50000 you may argue that no one will perceive it as a rapidly playing drumkit, people will always perceive it as a tone instead (the word tone is funny here because Speedcore artists refer to any bpm above 3600 bpm as "tone").
 * Going subjective, I believe that the important part is that the tone is there, and the frequency is real. Even though humans aren't good enough at hearing it well as separate beats, what matters is that we can picture this kind of tempo in our minds while hearing the tone.
 * A thing that can't be denied is that the genre exists, is produced, and is listened to seriously. It has the right to exist. Windogs95 (talk) 21:46, 11 May 2023 (UTC)