Talk:Spice/Archive 1

Template
Attention spice/herb lovers, I have created a template for all herb/spice pages here: WikiProject Herbs and Spices. Please contribute if you are interested. The first stage is to brainstorm the content and headings of each article etc... Then the next step will be create a template using a known spice, like cloves, or cumin on a subpage. Then eventually convert all the pages to the new template format. Could take a few years. But eventually wikipedia.org might be the ultimate source for reliable information about spices and herbs. dave 21:47, 6 Oct 2003 (UTC)

Herbs are defined as the "leafy, green plant parts" which "may be used fresh." Then, under the classification of spices are listed "leaves and/or branches." Basil is given as both an herb and a spice. If the difference is that herbs are used fresh and spices dried, then a better distinction is needed. I can't accept that fresh basil from my garden is an herb but that a jar of McCormick's dried basil is a spice.68.65.122.80 10:58, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

The problem is that it's nonsense to say that spices are used dried, not fresh. Fresh spices are far superior to dried ones in flavor, for most purposes, and fresh spices are very frequently used, especially in countries where they grow. We have to do better than this in defining the difference between spices and herbs. Michael 10:58, 9 April 2007 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.247.63.127 (talk)

Improvement drive
Spice trade has been nominated to be improved by This week's improvement drive. Come and support the article with your vote!--Fenice 06:08, 10 August 2005 (UTC)

Differences between spices and condiments?
Can someone kindly list the differences, if any, between spices and condiments?

You might add the same text to the article on condiments.

Thank you.

A condiment is something you as the diner add to your food at the table. It could be pickles, spices, or even some sort of sauce. Spices can be condiments, but that doesn't mean all condiments are spices. --Sophistifunk 23:54, 20 February 2006 (UTC)

According to Cyrus Todiwala, an Indian chef on BBC Radio 4 recently, that isn't correct. (http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/radio/bbc_radio_four/factual/food_and_drink - programme will only be there for 7 days though)

He stated that in Indian cooking spices are those things that the oils are extracted from, or that are used to give flavour to oil. For example, peppercorns, cloves, garlic. Things like paprika, turmeric, are termed condiments.

The guy's an expert chef so I'm personally confident that he knows what he's talking about. I've not been able to find a text reference for this though, so won't alter the article of course. Ride the Hurricane (talk) 17:28, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

Acne?
I think this article should mention something about the fact that spicy foods cause acne. ― LADY GALAXY ★彡 Refill/lol 04:14, 20 April 2007 (UTC)


 * We definitely need a reliable source first.
 * Peter Isotalo 20:21, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

I've never heard any reliable evidence that spices cause acne. Though Plato seems to have thought they did. Glynhughes (talk) 14:29, 3 May 2015 (UTC)

Antioxidant
The article doesn't mention anywhere the fact that many spices have notable antioxidant properties, which make them health-beneficial and useful as natural food preservatives. Want references? See for example this paper: [http://pubs.acs.org/cgi-bin/abstract.cgi/jafcau/2005/53/i20/abs/jf051513y.html Bin Shan, Yizhong Z. Cai, Mei Sun, Harold Corke: Antioxidant Capacity of 26 Spice Extracts and Characterization of Their Phenolic Constituents. Journal of Agricultural and Food Chemistry. 53 (20), 7749 -7759, 2005]: "Total equivalent antioxidant capacity (TEAC) and phenolic content of 26 common spice extracts from 12 botanical families were investigated. [...] Many spices contained high levels of phenolics and demonstrated high antioxidant capacity." 213.37.6.23 (talk) 02:24, 15 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Turmeric is also a strong disinfectant and antibacterial agent. Might be worth adding if anyone can find a reliable reference. Ride the Hurricane (talk) 17:30, 11 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Spices are used in so minuscule amounts as not to provide any relevant antioxidant properties to food, so this should be kept out of the article or explained. Cacycle (talk) 18:47, 11 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Maybe so, but as a disinfectant Turmeric is used with purpose in marinades. It is/has been an important part of making meat safe to eat in hot climates (eg India) Ride the Hurricane (talk) 14:42, 15 November 2009 (UTC)


 * Some very well-known spices (such as clove, ginger, oregano, cinnamon, curry, pepper, paprika or parsley) have molar quantities of antioxidants reaching as high as tens of times those of foods marketed as "healthy" because of their antioxidant-richness (such as kiwifruit, berries, spinach or red wine). Even if used only in "minuscule" quantities (many recipes call for spices added in terms of teaspoon- or fraction-of-teaspoon-sized quantities to recipes, comparable for example to those called for added salt, which certainly aren't huge but neither "minuscule"), the fact that they are many times more rich in antioxidant content makes adding such "minuscule" quantities of comparable overall effect to other less-antioxidant-rich foods used in greater quantities. A gram of clove, in particular, provides almost a hundred times more antioxidants than a gram of kiwifruit (125.549 mmol/100g for clove vs. 1.325 mmol/100g for kiwifruit)&mdash;which means a mere "minuscule" 1 gram of clove (around a quarter teaspoon) adds as much antioxidant-richness to a recipe as that added by a serving-sized 100-gram chunk of kiwifruit. 213.37.6.101 (talk) 01:39, 13 February 2012 (UTC)


 * This is a general article. If turmeric, for example, is a good whatever, put that in the Turmeric article, not here. Dmforcier (talk) 15:12, 18 March 2010 (UTC)


 * I'd say "many spices contained high levels of phenolics and demonstrated high antioxidant capacity" is a general statement about a characteristic shared by many spices, not just a specific fact about turmeric or a mere few singular spices. The current wording of the article's lead section makes spices look as though they are nutritionally "insignificant" additives whose only merit is adding "flavor" to a recipe, as if they added no other worthy-of-mention value to food than making it taste better, which hides the scientifically-studied fact that many common spices (such as clove, ginger, oregano, cinnamon, curry, pepper, paprika or parsley, apart from less-popular ones such as turmeric, basil leaf or mustard seed) possess non-insignificant antioxidant levels reaching tens of times higher in molar quantity per weight than foods nowadays commonly marketed as "healthy" because of their amount of antioxidant content. 213.37.6.101 (talk) 01:39, 13 February 2012 (UTC)

Turkish spices and herbs
Turkey is the leading producer country for most of the spices and herbs. The below spices, herbs and spicy seeds are cultivated in Turkey ad exported to the whole world.

Laurel leaves (Bay Leaves), Oregano, Yellow Sesame seeds, Sage, Cumin seeds, Rosemary, Fennel seeds, Fenugreek, White poppy seeds, Blue poppy seeds, Anis seeds, Thyme, Sumac, Whole primula radix, Nigella seeds, Mint, Linden flowers, Basil, Pinenut kernels and Apricot kernels. I suggest to check www.gnatrading.com to see further details about Turkish spices and herbs. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Gnatrading (talk • contribs) 22:28, 11 January 2009 (UTC)

I don't know if the problem is associated with the web browser or other factors....
Look at my edit history on the section of Standardization —Preceding unsigned comment added by 222.64.211.152 (talk) 09:22, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

ISO specification on the topic....
make me wonder if in the future all the Pharmacopeias will fade away and only has International pharmacopeia —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.78.212.136 (talk) 09:32, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

Does the Standards section even add anything to the article? Seems like the info could just as easily go into the References section. Dmforcier (talk) 18:16, 18 March 2010 (UTC)

Spice racks
this section strikes me as very irrelevant, I'd recommend deletion --NinetyNineFennelSeeds (talk) 02:53, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

Seconded.-neal (talk) 03:02, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

Thirded Beastiepaws (talk) 03:03, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

Done Dmforcier (talk) 14:20, 18 March 2010 (UTC)

Early Modern: Cultivation pre-1750
The "Early Modern" section had a claim that before 1750 people believed that plants couldn't be grown outside of their indigenous habitats. It had been flagged, but this claim is dangerously misleading. Counter examples that refute the claim are numerous: seventeenth-century England had many thriving greenhouses that grew tropical fruit such as oranges and pineapples, and the article on "chili peppers" cites the spread of the species around the old world following Colombus's return from North America. I simply deleted the claim and edited the remaining dubious (but not necessarily incorrect) information to read as a unified paragraph.-neal (talk) 03:07, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

Production section
Just a naked chart with no label as to what it represents? If it's not improved I'd just as soon take the section out. Dmforcier (talk) 15:12, 18 March 2010 (UTC)

I checked the source of this chart on http://faostat.fao.org/site/339/default.aspx This data is not for all spices, but is for spices NES (not elsewhere specified). There is separate data available for cloves, cinnamon, pepper, nutmeg, cardamom etc. This data is misleading as it is incorrectly represented as data for all spices

Spelling and British English
This article is not labeled as British English, thus "flavour" is a mis-spelling. Dmforcier (talk) 15:15, 18 March 2010 (UTC)

Vanilla?
Is Vanilla considered a spice? It is never described as such in its own article, rather as a "flavoring". There are two occasions where it is listed as a spice in this article. Dmforcier (talk) 18:13, 18 March 2010 (UTC)
 * I can't think of a way to define "spice" that would exclude vanilla. Beastiepaws (talk) 02:36, 19 March 2010 (UTC)
 * The pod certainly could be considered a spice. The problem is the extract.  If it is, would lemon extract also be considered a spice?  Just how distinct are 'spices' and 'flavorings'?  "Flavoring' seems to be the enclosing category, but I'm no expert on culinary terminology.  And on vanilla I don't have any strong feelings one way or the other.  I guess the best approach is to not push the point either way. Dmforcier (talk) 03:43, 19 March 2010 (UTC)
 * So far as this article goes, I think it belongs. I don't see how the fact that vanilla can be used to produce an extract would make it any less of a spice.   Beastiepaws (talk) 03:51, 19 March 2010 (UTC)

(I know its an old post) Yeah its one of those borderline spices. Sorta like mint, onion (you can get it in dry powdered form too), orange peel, etc. I think it should be included.

Henry123ifa (talk) 17:25, 23 May 2012 (UTC)

Do animals use spices?
Mention if animals also use spices. And not just cats occasionally eating grass, etc., but them eating the spice at the same time as the main food. Jidanni (talk) 17:01, 9 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Do animals cook? Then they can't use spices.  Spices are certain veg parts used in cooking. Dmforcier (talk) 18:59, 10 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Tricky question. One would imagine that sophisticated animals that eat many plants would notice the difference if two "good" ones were placed in their mouth at the same time. Or even eaten after one another. Eating under a black pepper tree will definitely impart a pepper smell to the air. What might be an insurmountable problem is that many spices are only used in the smallest amount. In fact, one of the points of the article is that in any large quantity, many herbs have "medicinal" properties -- read another way, that means "poisonous". My guess is that evolution has taught most animals to eat their normal food as quickly as they can gather it, unless there's a surplus. I.e., there are several factors working against animals using spices. 98.210.208.107 (talk) 12:43, 5 March 2011 (UTC)

Most Popular Spices?
I think a section should be added on the most popular spices (eg. black pepper, var. hot chili peppers..etc) used.

Then there are other spices (eg saffron) thats not used as often or are consider exotic (eg. sumac, korarima...etc)

Any takers?

Henry123ifa (talk) 17:13, 23 May 2012 (UTC)


 * I think this can be difficult to list them since which spices are popular is partially regionally dependent, but just writing more casually about them could work. —Kri (talk) 21:53, 22 July 2013 (UTC)

Sichuan pepper
The by far coolest spice is the Sichuan pepper. —Kri (talk) 20:32, 22 July 2013 (UTC)

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Move discussion in progress
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Via Lisbon
"The Silk Road complemented the Portuguese sea routes, and brought the treasures of the Orient to Europe via Lisbon, including many spices." This unreferenced sentence appears in the article's history section. It seems to be a geographical nonsense. The overland Silk Road from the Orient cannot pass through Lisbon on its way to Europe. Is there any reason it should not be deleted? Michael Bateman (talk) 16:45, 15 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Removed. Michael Bateman (talk) 12:35, 19 February 2018 (UTC)

Merge discussion
Oppose. Advieh looks like a reasonable stub, and other spice mixes have their own articles. Pepper Beast   (talk)  23:58, 31 December 2017 (UTC)

Oppose. The Spice article should remain concise. User-duck (talk) 11:17, 3 January 2018 (UTC)

Spice
(copied from Pepperbeast's talk page) I would like to invite you to reconsider [your revision (WP:OR)] and not ignore supporting reference given in the deleted part. I agree more and better references are desirable, and every assertion should be referenced. Whether the references should be in the section about general spice usage, in the page of the relevant spice, or in both, should require careful considerations. If you do not agree to the mentioned alternative purposes spices may be used for (assuming you think spices are used solely for antimicrobial purposes - the one already in the article) then I suggest you add a moderating sentence and not delete valid content (avoid risking your deletion to amount to WP:OR). Or are you against a section title for spice use? Why? Cobanyastigi (talk) 13:07, 1 January 2018 (UTC)
 * You have one reference that says that piperizine increases the bioavailablity of curcurmin. The rest of what you wrote was pure OR.  There is no 'careful consideration needed'.  If you make an assertion, you need to provide sources on the same page.  And yes, I do object to splitting the lede to make a 'Uses' section. I'm going to copy this discussion to the Spices talk page, because that's where it belongs.   Pepper Beast    (talk)  21:31, 1 January 2018 (UTC)

Spice rack listed at Redirects for discussion
An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect Spice rack. Please participate in the redirect discussion if you wish to do so. BDD (talk) 20:05, 10 June 2019 (UTC)