Talk:Spider-Woman (Jessica Drew)

Changes
Why are all changes on this page undone without explanation? I have remade the alterations, which make this article a lot cleaner and easier to read, and this has been reported.

Cartoon
There is a lot of information specicifically about the cartoon series in the 'Depictions in other media' section. I think that the episode guide in particular is too much information to be contained in Jessica Drew's character page. Does anyone else think it would be better with an article of its own? Avengers fan 22:20, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Confused text
The recent addition has two serious problems. First, Hydra is not a Japanese organization (but the Hand is). I do not know which of the two is meant - probably Hydra. Second, her powers are not supposed to be magic; they were created by genetic and biological tampering by her father and the High Evolutionary. Luis Dantas 21:40, 6 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Good point. The article now also impies that Conelley works for SHIELD; he's a HYDRA agent.  And we need to figure out a way to differentiate between the "old" versions of SW's origin and the "new" version coming out in SW:Origin in the entry.--Galliaz 13:39, 7 January 2006 (UTC)
 * I would suggest inserting a single sentence paragraph in the "Character biography" section stating that her origin story is subject to retconning in the current Spider-Woman: Origin mini, wait till the mini finishes, then expand the paragraph to include the altered details. This should probably be tacked on at the end of the section, since we don't know how much territory the mini will retread. In addition to the Hydra vs. Hand problem mentioned, there are areas where general cleanup in needed; I'll try to attack this from time to time. Canonblack 19:57, 22 February 2006 (UTC)
 * This is a workable solution. It makes sense ot wait for the conclusion of the mini-series.--Galliaz 00:58, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

The animated Spiderwoman did have venom blasts. Most notably she used it to defeat Dracula by firing her blast at a windmill to simulate sunlight.Thundernine 10:44, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

Hangman
Uhm....Why does it link to the DC comic hangman in the part where it lists some of the villians she's fought? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.168.245.134 (talk • contribs) 23:47, November 28, 2006
 * Good eye. It's because there is an article for the DC one and not the Marvel one. I've fixed it by making it a redlink. --Chris Griswold (  ☎  ☓  ) 08:44, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

Origin miniseries
So, did it end already? From reading the current version of the article it looks like a reboot (or at least a strong retcon) instead of just a streamlined retelling. One wonders if Marvel realizes how deeply it contradicts established continuity. Luis Dantas 06:08, 13 January 2007 (UTC)


 * The Marvel Chronology Project believes it can fit in with the existing origin as untold scenes mixed with HYDRA memory implants. Search under Thread 42:

Marvel Ultimate Alliance
Some of the information on Marvel Ultimate Alliance is wrong or poorly worded. There is no point where a player can actually ask Spider-Woman a question. Spider-Woman has a conversation with the Grey Gargoyle in Mandarin's Palace. He says "Ah, so this is the Amazing Spider-Woman", Spider-Woman corrects him and explains that her pheromones have that effect on people. Later on, one of the Trivia machines, the Strange Trivia machine in Dr Strange's house in particular, has the question "How did Spider-Woman get her powers from Spider-Man?" or something to that effect. There are three options that parody other super heroine origins, such as a blood transfusion, and the fourth one is "She didn't". The player doesn't pose these questions, they're either presented as part of a fixed conversation between characters or the player is asked in a trivia game. It would probably be better to say that at several points, the game asserts that Spider-Man and Spider-Woman are not related in any way. Also, the note that Spider-Woman has a conversation with Black Widow is like saying she's a playable character, every character has a conversation with Black Widow, Nick Fury, Hank Pym and the Vision in one of the hubs, except, I think, Moon Knight, Colossus, Silver Surfer, Nick Fury and the XBox Live downloads. More notable conversations that Spider-Woman has include the Grey Gargoyle, Jarvis and the Enchantress and the Executioner(a double boss meaning she speaks to both at the same time). She also has a conversation with Dr Doom where she says that if she had spidey senses, they'd be tingling right now. Even though these conversations are based on the assumption that she's Jessica Drew, they also work when she wears her Julia Carpenter and May Parker costumes.

You can speak with Spider-Woman in Dr. Strange's house (if she's not already in your party), and you can ask her there if she's related to Spider-Man. I agree some of the article's wording could be better.--71.251.60.53 (talk) 04:01, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Gspiderwoman.jpg
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BetacommandBot 23:15, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Newavn014 colv4.jpg
Image:Newavn014 colv4.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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BetacommandBot (talk) 22:16, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Spiderwoman1.png
Image:Spiderwoman1.png is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 05:40, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Ultimatespiderwoman.PNG
Image:Ultimatespiderwoman.PNG is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 02:43, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

how do we deal with the fact
That from the first issue of New Avengers it's not been Spider-woman? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.112.16.178 (talk) 19:10, 7 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Yes it has. Any appearance of it not being so is an error. Rau's Speak Page 02:10, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

Sorry, you've lost me - error in what way? It's been explicitly stated in reliable sources (interviews with newsarama, Comicbook resources, wizard magazine) that it's never been spider-woman, it's always been the Skrull empresses. This article needs a bit shake-up anyway, it's way way too in-universe. --87.112.16.178 (talk) 09:02, 8 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Oh, I thought you were talking about the hyphenation. Yea, anything that happened after she was replaced should be moved to the empress' article, just like Khn'nr. Rau's Speak Page 23:07, 8 June 2008 (UTC)


 * Should her powers be changed back to what they were known to have been in her last canon appearance. Specifically, her ability to fly.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.165.163.20 (talk) 15:00, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

New Avengers and Secret Invasion reveals...
Should there be a change into Spider-woman's information regarding the recent Secret Invasion event and her revaltion as a Skrull ?

Swears in the Bendis Quote
The Comic Book Resources, has bad languages with f, s, and bulls- words. We will not to used the bad racial statement words in article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.52.172.240 (talk) 05:57, 6 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Care to be a bit more specific? Rau's Speak Page 13:26, 6 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Are "vulgar" words even banned, so to speak, on Wikipedia? MaxMillions (talk) 17:19, 29 July 2008 (UTC)


 * It's a quote and a relevant one, so IMHO it's fine to leave them in. If it was just a line that said "someone fucks someone else", "someone takes a shit" or "someone has the shit kicked out of them" then I'd change the phrasing.  But as it stands I think it's fine.  Planewalker Dave (talk) 17:39, 29 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Just because it's in a quotation does not mean it cannot be edited. The fact is that the article uses the "f" word one time and "s" word two times. Let's face it: this article and any article that has unrestrained use of vulgar or swear words just plain looks trashy. It is trashy. I move that those words be removed from the quotation (properly). Children who want to look up info on Spider-Woman don't need to read that kind of language. More importantly, it makes Wikipedia as a whole look like a trashy resource, especially compared to a bound dictionary or encyclopedia. Let's add a little bit of class to this joint.


 * Under the Guidelines for Wikipedia articles is the follwing statement:


 * Profanity


 * "Words and images that might be considered offensive, profane, or obscene by other Wikipedia readers should be used if and only if their omission would cause the article to be less informative, relevant, or accurate, and no equally suitable alternatives are available."


 * Given that guideline, I am removing the vulgar language in a proper manner.--74.235.10.224 (talk) 16:07, 10 June 2009 (UTC)


 * I've edited the "vulgar" words out. They're not necessary to get the meaning across, and they're distracting from the main point.  (An aside, what makes tham "racial"?  They may be vulgar, but they're not "racial" in any way I can see).  70.226.171.2 (talk) 15:04, 13 January 2010 (UTC)

I initially edited the quote to remove the foul language. Someone undid my edit, and I reverted it. My reasons are thus: (1) the language does not add anything to the article that cannot be expressed by a summary, (2) this is a resource that kids will look to, and I see no reason to include the swear language. Yes it's what Bendis actually said, but his meaning is clear enough with tamer language. The point of the quote is not to capture vintage Bendis conversation, but to express his reasoning about the character. His reasoning is clear enough with the edited version of the text. The curse words don't add anything. They do detract.

The omission of these words does not "cause the article to be less informative, relevent, or accurate" and "equally suitable alternatives are available," therefore, these words should not be used, per Wiki guidelines. 70.226.171.2 (talk) 00:08, 16 January 2010 (UTC)

I don't see any consensus established here. I see several IP anons agreeing, and for all I know they could all be the same person. BOZ (talk) 00:44, 16 January 2010 (UTC)


 * Okay, my opinion is that a paraphrasing using square brackets is probably the best solution. The swearing isn't necessary to get the context.   However it certainly shouldn't be: a) simply censored to "f***", or b) have the words changed without square brackets, because this is a directe quote we're talking about.  Planewalker Dave (talk) 11:29, 16 January 2010 (UTC)


 * BOZ, whether or not there is a consensus, use of profanity in this case violates Wiki's profanity policy. I made the case above:  The omission of these words does not "cause the article to be less informative, relevant, or accurate" and "equally suitable alternatives are available," therefore, these words should not be used, per Wiki guidelines. 70.226.171.2 (talk) 21:09, 16 January 2010 (UTC)


 * On second thought, why is the quote even in there? It's over-long, unnecessarily verbose, and just clutters up the article.  A written summary with a citation to the quote would be a better use of space, and resolves the conflict.  I've drafted one.  70.226.171.2 (talk) 21:20, 16 January 2010 (UTC)


 * And I moved it to the publication history section where it belongs. It's insight into why certain publication decisions occurred; it's not part of the fictional character biography.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.226.171.2 (talk) 21:27, 16 January 2010 (UTC)

Note

OK, lets see if we can have some constructive conversation before going back to pushing on the article.

Two points that need to be addressed in that:
 * A link to the guideline or policy for removing words or terms from Wikipedia.
 * Consensus that this is an article that needs to be shielded from "offensive" terms.

- J Greb (talk) 00:39, 17 January 2010 (UTC)


 * Like I said above, I don't see any consensus that the quotes need to be removed. I am also unaware of any policies which state that profanity is prohibited, or that sensitive readers need to be protected somehow. The quotes in this article don't seem to be overly vulgar, although I will admit that I can live with the "summary" version done by the IP anon who has been objecting in the first place. I'm just not in favor of censoring language for the sake of protecting sensibilities. BOZ (talk) 03:14, 17 January 2010 (UTC)


 * OK, back to basics:
 * * The guideline is WP:PROFANITY, but it also says: "In original Wikipedia content, a profanity should either appear in its full form or not at all; words should never be bowdlerized by replacing letters in the word with dashes, asterisks, or other symbols." So whatever else is decided the version that rewrote the quote to remove the naughty words is very specifically not allowed. It is all or nothing.
 * * That means we either include the quote without any censoring or we leave it out. I don't have a problem with leaving it in but clearly some people do. So is it possible to:
 * ** quote shorter sections that get across the point (we don't always need a big fat blockquote).
 * ** is it possible to produce a paraphrased version that is acceptable to everyone? Summarise what he says and source it so those wishing to can see the full version.
 * I'll have a look at it later and see if I can't come up with some kind of form of wards that might mean we don't have to include profanity. (Emperor (talk) 17:49, 18 January 2010 (UTC))


 * OK try this:


 * Bendis has said that the return of Spider-Woman to prominence went down well with her fans, especially the vocal ones online, and "they’ve loved me for bringing her back. With her being in a number one book, she’s had a wave of good fortune that she hasn’t seen since her heyday." However, she was already lined-up for a key role in Secret Invasion: 


 * we’ve had this planned since New Avengers #1. You can go back to issue #1 and see hints. There’s not a segment of the readership that I haven’t felt worse about doing this to than the Spider-Woman fans. I want to express publicly that your love of the character will not be lost.


 * They had considered revealing she was a Skrull in a possible eponymous comic book, but it was felt it would be mis-selling the readers on the premis of the series, and that the revelation could only be done in a team title.


 * It is quite a big block quote and it'd be desirable to paraphrase parts of it anyway and I think that gets the point over in a tighter form and without any need for swearing. Feel free to tinker with the wording (well it is Wikipedia but, you know, before making it live - if it is to be made live).


 * Also this should be in the PH as it is out-of-universe material. (Emperor (talk) 02:25, 20 January 2010 (UTC))


 * Can anyone point me to these "bad racial statements"? I feel I have overlooked an angle here. (Emperor (talk) 00:58, 23 January 2010 (UTC))

Strange that this was discussed at such length but never changed. I edited the quote, aside from the profanity (which I did not change) it was already paraphrasing the article and misrepresenting those changes as a direct quote. Any ellipsis not in the original article should have been marked as [...] and the points made by Bendis can be made with a shorter quote and the point about misrepresenting or mis-selling the story can be better phrased without the profanty. -- 109.78.217.155 (talk) 14:31, 16 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Thought about it some more and decided to just make a WP:BOLD decision and cut the quote down to the essentials. The profanity is irrelevant to the larger points of why the series didn't happen and that he didn't think it was a good idea. -- 109.78.217.155 (talk) 14:35, 16 August 2013 (UTC)

WikiProject Comics B-Class Assesment required
This article needs the B-Class checklist filled in to remain a B-Class article for the Comics WikiProject. If the checklist is not filled in by 7th August this article will be re-assessed as C-Class. The checklist should be filled out referencing the guidance given at Version 1.0 Editorial Team/Assessment/B-Class criteria. For further details please contact the Comics WikiProject. Comics-awb (talk) 17:33, 31 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Done - it is in serious need of a lot more references (there are statements made that need a source) and the publication history is tagged as needing expansion so it suggest that aspect isn't being covered properly and needs work. (Emperor (talk) 00:54, 8 October 2008 (UTC))

Spider-Woman on a postage stamp:
In early or mid-2008, the U.S. Postal Service put out a set of Marvel Comics postage-stamps, and along with images of much more famous, familiar, and popular Marvel characters (i.e. Spider-Man, Wolverine, Elektra, etc.), there was even included a stamp with Spider-Woman (Jessica Drew)!

Anyone think this would be worth mentioning somewhere in the article? Especially as it might emphasize the character's greatly revived status today, since being brought back after about two decades in limbo. Machine Patience (talk) 23:14, 24 March 2009 (UTC)


 * Provide sources first, preferably multiple sources to both WP:VERIFY this did happen and also to show it was genuinely WP:NOTABLE -- 109.78.217.155 (talk) 14:31, 16 August 2013 (UTC)

lady liberators
this page says that the real spiderwoman was a member of the lady liberators, but she wasn't because Maria Hill was still deputy director of SHIELD. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.7.23.78 (talk) 04:59, 20 July 2009 (UTC)

The image of article Jessica drew and the Ultimate Spider-Woman
Well, sorry for the question, to be honest I would like to ask how you can replace a picture of Spider-Woman in a frame and a picture of Ultimate Spider-Woman, well that without inscriptions was just in the photo without the signatures. --Shawnee Smith (talk) 10:54, 30 March 2012 (UTC)

Ultimate Spider Woman
Sorry three months here I looked and saw a picture where Jessica in the plot of the Ultimate, and now she's gone and where is she?--Hawnee94 (talk) 14:16, 2 May 2012 (UTC)

Flight
The article claims Spider-Woman regained the [ability of flight] after the Skrull Queen was defeated but no issue reference is given. I removed this claim because in Spider-Woman (comic book) on the last story page of issue 4 and the first pages of issue 5 it is specifically made very clear she cannot fly, and only with the help of her suit can she glide. This could be another retcon but it made more sense to leave out the unsourced contradictory claim. -- 109.78.217.155 (talk) 14:31, 16 August 2013 (UTC)

Collected Editions
Is there a collected edition table? Rachelskit (talk) 19:17, 24 May 2017 (UTC)

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