Talk:Spiritual gift/Archive 1

Easton's Bible Dictionary
The dictionary this article was based on is quite POV. Nonetheless here is the reference if anyone is interested. Colin MacLaurin 01:47, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

Question
Do some Christian groups limit the term "spiritual gifts" to just the miraculous gifts?BUM

For example, Easton seems to limit "spiritual gifts" to only miraculous gifts in the early church - "They were the gifts of speaking with tongues, casting out devils, healing, etc." A Google search turned up a helpful article, which could be taken to imply a dual meaning where "spiritual gifts" could mean either the (outwardly) miraculous gifts or the entirety of gifts. Your opinions please! Colin MacLaurin 01:47, 21 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Perhaps more to the point -- some do not. The Catholic Church classifies both the miraclous gifts and the gifts and fruits that stem from sanctifying grace as spiritual gifts, though making many distinctions between the types.  Goldfritha 22:34, 5 August 2006 (UTC)


 * We might be talking about a three-way distinction now! The Bible talks about some truly miraculous gifts like healing, and some more mundane gifts like administration. Both types are given to particular people: not all are healers and not all are administrators. By contrast, the gifts of the HS that Goldfritha is talking about are something different still: they are seven in number and are given to all baptized Christians and perfected in confirmation. David Chiang 21:22, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Merger
The articles Spiritual gift and Gifts of the Holy Spirit ought to be merged. Colin MacLaurin 10:48, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Since Gifts of the Holy Spirit is the longer of the two, I propose that Spiritual gift be merged into it.
 * I also propose that the result be placed under the title Spiritual gifts, as this is the most commonly used term.

Correction: Make that "Spiritual gift", because of the Wikipedia convention, "In general only create page titles that are in the singular..." (See here). Colin MacLaurin 07:54, 27 July 2006 (UTC)


 * I propose that Gifts of the Holy Spirit is a subset of Spiritual Gifts. Spiritual Gifts is actually the broader term. From what I've seen in the bible Spiritual Gifts can include many gifts which is where you get the different numbers. There are only 9 Gifts of the Holy Spirit.


 * However, in Catholic spiritual theology, Gifts of the Holy Spirit refers to two distinct phenomena as mentioned above. This article describes what are commonly called charisms or charismata in the Catholic tradition, and are normally meant for the edification of the community. There are also the Seven gifts of the Holy Spirit which are normally meant for the sanctification of the person to whom they are given. When Catholics talk about the "gifts of the HS" they usually mean the latter. David Chiang 20:51, 26 September 2006 (UTC)


 * A Google search of "gifts of the holy spirit" turns up mostly Catholic pages talking about the Seven gifts of the Holy Spirit, where a search for "spiritual gift" turns up mostly evangelical/charismatic pages talking about charismata, e.g., speaking in tongues. Perhaps, then, common usage would call for two articles that cross-reference each other? David Chiang 21:44, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Broken
The bit at the end has some broken formatting! Peter 07:17, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

Linking
I would really like to see the gifts linking to articles specifically on the spiritual gift, rather than the general term. (ie "faith" would link to "faith (spiritual gift)" 208.53.104.68 07:37, 21 May 2007 (UTC)amyanda2000


 * This seems like a great idea. There are a couple of articles out there, like "Gifts of healing". It seems more appropriate to title it "Healing (spiritual gift)". Triathematician (talk) 19:03, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

I removed the link from Robert L. Thomas, as the article it was linked to, I am fairly sure, is a different Robert Thomas than the one intended. Aanastasi 15:04, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

Reverted the removal of Gifts Testing
If you want to add "some argue gifts can not be tested" and provide a reference, fine; but don't blow-away the majority opinion & say it's not true.--LanceHaverkamp 04:56, 8 September 2007 (UTC) (Doctoral Student in Ministry)

Charismatic umbrella? Nine gifts?
Why is this article under the "charismatic" project? Many Christians in other denominations also believe in the spiritual gifts, and the practice of testing for spiritual gifts is not limited to charismatic churches.

Also, why does the introduction say "The teaching on there being nine gifts of the Spirit originated..." It's written as if the reader understands what the nine gifts are, but it hasn't yet been referred to. Triathematician (talk) 18:59, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Edit needed to this description: Tongues: A gift from God and the ability to speak another language not known by the believer speaking it. The Spiritual gift to speak another language not known by the believer speaking it; to build up the Body of Christ when the message is interpreted. Paul is clear that tongues is not for the believer but the unbeliever. His intention is not that tongues builds up the church it is the prophesy that builds up the church and that prophesy is only useful if understood. This meaning is clear from a careful reading of the text. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kyle.Mullaney (talk • contribs) 11:05, 5 December 2010 (UTC)

Section on testing
I went ahead and changed "Charismatic churches" to "some Protestant churches" since this practice is not limited to Charismatic churches. Also, is the level of detail in this section really warranted? Do we really need to know that 0 usually means "Never" and 4 means "Always"?? Also, it wouldn't hurt to emphasize more in the section that a Test does not say exactly which spiritual gifts one has, but is a tool one can use to gain more information about what spiritual gifts one might have. The comment on "some argue that spiritual gifts cannot be tested" may have meant that tests cannot provide 100% accurate information.

Perhaps the section should be changed and expanded to something like "Ways to discover spiritual gifts" or something of the sort? Triathematician (talk) 19:11, 27 January 2008 (UTC)


 * In response to "some argue that spiritual gifts cannot be tested," it is my understanding that none of the spiritual gifts inventories have been examined to determine if they are valid. In other words, they have not been tested to see if they actually measure what they claim to measure. Perhaps we could find sources that either confirm or deny that. Jason Norris (talk) 19:56, 21 April 2010 (UTC)

The "spiritual gift inventory tests" seem to review your past. They are helpful to people who falsely believe they have no abilities. An unbeliever without the indwelling Spirit can take the test and get a result so I am wary of placing too much confidence in their results. On the same theme, one shouldn't need a test to tell them if they have spoken in tongues or healed a person. - Gordon James —Preceding unsigned comment added by 142.167.133.95 (talk) 09:30, 13 June 2010 (UTC)

Secondary citations
To meet Wikipedia standards, this article needs secondary citations where it is talking about the different POV of the various christian groups. At the moment it's full of "some believe that..." "others regard these as..." and all of these should properly be cited, as most are based on books by various individuals. I've marked up a few of these, but I don't have the books to do all the citations. --Elen of the Roads (talk) 17:30, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

Section on "Necessity of Gifts for Today"
I am planning to remove the section at the end of the article, since it is an opinion piece, already covered in the introduction, and the arguments are much more extensive in the cessationism and continuationism articles. I may replace by a section entitled "controversies" or "debate". Any suggestions or concerns? I will reproduce the content here for later reference. Triathematician (talk) 11:54, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

1. The spiritual gifts as defined in 1 Cor 12, enable a witness to others as to the validity of Christ by means of supernatural workings in ways that could only by done by Him. Christ commands us to continue witnessing for Him; spiritual gifts are God given means to do so. This is one thing we see with Christ as he ministered here on earth (Acts 2:22). All throughout Christ’s ministry he went about performing miracles, healings, demonstrating faith, prophesying, and discerning spirits. This in turn was a great testament and authentication of the validity of His ministry. Furthermore, many gifts followed the apostles with their ministry as well. These too were a sign to both believers and unbelievers. So following that same thought pattern, we too have gifts to testify, glorify and validate Christ as authentic and personal. 2: With spiritual gifts comes edification of the person, and the body of Christ. This is something that Christ still asks us to do for both his bride and ourselves. First is that of personal edification. What better way to develop into all Christ has for you than to use the gifts that he has given you? They are unique, un-quantitative, and God given. So following, growing in, and using the gifts he has given you build you up in body, mind, and spirit. As Benjamin Franklin said, “Hide not your talents. They for use were made. What's a sundial in the shade?” Second is that of edification of the body (the church). We see once more in 1 Corinthians 12 that the gifts are described as “many parts”. As in your body, when all the parts come together and work accordingly, the body functions and operates normally as it should, this is a command. So with the church. As each person’s gift is used appropriately and in conjunction with the word and will of God, there is communal edification. 3: Gifts bring unity and stability to the Church. Once again we see that in 1 Cor 12, Eph 4:3-5, and Phil 2:2 is this call and command for unity as one body. What can the body truly accomplish if in fact they are missing parts? It is only with the inclusion and exercise of each part that Christ can truly build his church. This is done by the “...Spirit through the bond of peace...” This is the same spirit who wills gifts accordingly to each member of Christ’s body. As those gifts come together as one, the purpose, mission, and prerogative of the church can be fully accomplished in accordance with Christ’s commands. 4: Spiritual gifts are for today in order to carry out the mission of the church which is seen in Matthew 28:19 and Acts 1:8. The mission of the church has not ceased; neither have the gifts that Christ so freely bestows in accordance to his will and sovereignty. As stated earlier, the church exists for personal edification, Christ-o-centric worship, and worldwide evangelism. How better to accomplish these than by the means of the gifts of the Spirit. If Christ still calls us to carry out His mission, would not he continue to give us the gifts and power we need to carry that mission out?

I agree with your reasoning and agree with this section's removal. --Geekdiva (talk) 10:31, 23 February 2010 (UTC)