Talk:Spy vs. Spy

Disagree with 2012 personality assessment above
In 2012, one of the users above stated the two spies are interchangeable and have no personality differences. This is not entirely true, as there are subtle differences. In Prohias' run, Black Spy always falls for traps involving toys and games, without fail, while White Spy is only ever shown falling for one that Black set up in one of Duck Edwing and Bob Clarke's strips. White Spy is also the only one of the two spies to be seen practicing Karate (although it is usually ineffective).

In Peter Kuper's run, White Spy gets public recognition (such as public street naming and red carpet walks) than Black Spy, with Black Spy becoming jealous and falling into whatever trap White laid out. Combined with the fact, Black Spy also fell into a trap involving taking the place of an actor portraying him, this seems to suggest Black wants public recognition.

138.87.133.15 (talk) 19:28, 31 May 2019 (UTC)

Article is useless
Without at least one comic this article is useless. A picture is worth a thousand words.

Not a stub
This shouldn't be a stub, since most of what already exists at Antonio Prohias belongs here instead. I'm working on these two articles, but if someone else beats me to them (which is no great feat) I won't object. Richard K. Carson 09:13, 18 December 2005 (UTC)


 * I’m here to remind you that this comment will me 18 years old soon.
 * I was born 2005 May 17. Feel old yet? Lol. 2600:1700:27B5:90:43C:4BFF:BC0D:384E (talk) 04:58, 17 August 2023 (UTC)

Video Games
This article makes no mention of the (at least 4) Spy vs. Spy video games by at first First Star Software and then later Vicious Cycle. 5 minutes research show that these games span the NES to the xbox. I'm not voluntaring to write anything though, sorry.

ARGH. I missed that tiny link. Still, Spy vs. Spy (computer game) doesn't mention the xbox game, so I wonder how much else it is missing.

Music
Candadian StonerRock band sHeavy has a song called Spy vs Spy on their 2005 album, entitled "Republic?". There was a band in Australia around the eighties called SPY vs SPY. Some of their songs were, Don't tear it down, Clarity of mind and All over the world. A couple even made it onto the charts.Hydratooth (talk) 23:27, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

Mountain Dew
Someone put a link to the 'dew commercials with a big, bold link with four exclamation marks... Does that sound very encyclopedic? I changed it. 66.241.86.119 18:22, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

color spy
why is there no mention to the color spies that would always triumph over the white and black spy? been along time since i read spy vs spy or even MAD but i do distinctly remember a comic of red vs blue vs black vs white spy. unless that was just an old tv episode i am recalling but was fairly sure was a picture format and i am not the only one i have talked to who remembers multiple colors popping up over time — Preceding unsigned comment added by 152.91.9.153 (talk) 04:21, 22 September 2011 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Spy Vs. Spy.JPG
Image:Spy Vs. Spy.JPG is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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BetacommandBot (talk) 19:44, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

peace sign?
"Frequently the winning spy celebrates his victory by throwing an ironic peace sign gesture toward the loser."

I'm assuming that is the V for Victory sign. In any case at the time the strip was introduced it could be interpreted either way — the V sign is pretty ambiguous. I'm removing the line since I'm pretty dubious of it and I don't see any way to objectively interpret the sign here. --24.147.86.187 (talk) 01:13, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Firstly, it should be noted that, while the V sign is ambigious and, at the time of Prohias' strips was known as both the Victory- and the Peace-Sign, they were/are not entirely identical. Commonly, only the Victory sign was/is given with the arm(s) stretched high above the head. 2. Even though it is accurate, that the Peace Sign became a fad in the wake of the 1960ies Hippie and Anti-(Vietnam)-War Movement, neither Prohías nor MAD had to cloak their political opinions by resorting to secretly sneaking in such symbols. And c) the first V-Sign in Spy Vs. Spy is seen in MAD #133 (March 1970) but the next instance does not come along until MAD #209 (Sep. 1979) and the frequent use is only during the 1980s (coinciding with the beginning downfall of the soviet union). Yet, it is downright ludicrous to try and construe a "hidden meaning" or concealed expression of political conviction from this. Thus follows, that the Spies are simply shown celebrating their victory over the opponent by throwing the V-Sign, just as they have done in other strips using other victorious or joyous gestures. There's neither irony involved nor is it a communication towards the defeated party. But all's well, lest we wonder why Spy Vs. Spy, made by a political cartoonist, is the perhaps most apolitical strip in a magazine otherwise rife with all kinds of criticizm. --2003:CA:3F02:8D2D:F97E:6AF4:FC32:74A6 (talk) 12:01, 24 June 2022 (UTC)

Origin of Spy vs Spy
The main article is missing the point that the political satire "SPY vs SPY" was originally showcased in "Bohemia," a Cuban publication. "Spy vs Spy" was restarted in the United States in 1961 when Antonio Prohias came over as an exile from the communist regime and was able to get his satirical "cold war" cartoons published in "MAD" magazine. As a young Cuban immigrant I learned to read and write Spanish by reading Bohemia magazine and was intrigued by the clever antics of "Spy vs Spy." Cubanopete (talk) 16:41, 30 October 2010 (UTC)

From the characters section
Just (tried to) read this: "The Spy Pogetion: A short animations with 'Spy vs Spy' (2010) cartoonist of program, The Spy Pogetion create a black and white then Grey Spy is shoted by Spy vs Spy vs Spy vs Spy. Black Leader means a little mystery. The series of MAD." Um... WHAT? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.164.160.153 (talk) 19:47, 11 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Bad knowledge of both english and morse code?--2003:CA:3F02:8D2D:F97E:6AF4:FC32:74A6 (talk) 12:24, 24 June 2022 (UTC)

Voice actors
Who does the voices for the MADtv cartoons? The snickering sounds very Don Messick (Muttley/Spot the Cat) and while Spy vs. Spy doesn't show up on his voice acting, I'm having a hard time finding any information relating to the cartoons' voice work.--DrWho42 (talk) 13:34, 5 March 2011 (UTC)

Which studio worked on Spy vs. Spy?
There is a contradiction on Wikipedia. Here, it says that Klasky Csupo worked on Spy vs. Spy, but Rough Draft Studios claims to have worked on Spy vs Spy as well. Can someone sort this out? PRProgRock (talk) 16:00, 22 June 2012 (UTC)

Has any other animation overseas made Black and White Spies yet on MADtv. I think for Season 2 version is overseas by AKOM Productions, Wang Film Productions or somewhere else. White Spy is my favorite one. All cartoon animations must have an overseas or else it will take too long to make it. SonicTV64 (talk) 17:17, 30 March 2016 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.128.80.36 (talk)

Peter Kuper
Look carefully in the more recent issues, and PLEASE compare them to the pre-Kuper issues. Then watch the MADtv shorts as well as the Cartoon Network shorts. Since atleast the early 2000s, the strips have been in full color, but both TV shows still show those Spies in black-and-white. PRProgRock (talk) 07:32, 30 June 2012 (UTC)

Differences?
Apart from the color of their uniforms, is it true that their jobs and habits are not exactly the same?--PRProgRock (talk) 05:48, 8 July 2012 (UTC)
 * No, they're pretty much interchangeable. Czolgolz (talk) 22:03, 19 August 2012 (UTC)

The Grey Spy
Something is not right about the Characters section.

Prohias got rid of the Grey Spy in 1965, that much is true, but the information about who brought her back is not.

After Prohias retired, there were two 1988 gags featuring Grey.

Peter Kuper did not come in until 1997.

So, to make it more accurate, the paragraph describing her should say that she did not appear again until Duck Edwing and Bob Clarke took over the strip.

If you look through BOTH Spy vs Spy compilations (The Complete Casebook and 2: The Joke And Dagger Files), you can clearly see that Peter Kuper was NOT the first successor of Prohias to bring the Grey Spy back.

Really, he just gave her the same new makeover that was given to the Black Spy and the White Spy.

And what about the 2002 newspaper funnies that were drawn by Dave Manak and written by Duck Edwing?

They were done Prohias-style, and the Grey Spy appeared twice in there, too.

--64.134.99.144 (talk) 02:14, 26 December 2012 (UTC) You mean she WASN'T Chinese? (Black was Russia and White was the USA)Arglebargle79 (talk) 20:48, 6 July 2019 (UTC)

Shades, Eyes, and everything in between
Currently, the article states that the spies have black sklera, but also that "Prohías experimented with not drawing frames on the Spies' shades". This needs clarification. From the start it was establish that the spies wear black sunglasses/shades, which are also often seen separately, but to draw facial expressions Prohías handled them as if they were eyes as well. The strip in MAD #88 (page 44) is the earliest source of the Spies having normal cartoon character eyes (black dots in white circles), a feature rarely used. It is not until the strip in MAD #156 p.39, that Prohías clearly defines them as black eyeballs by drawing eyelids covering them. Yet, later strips occasionally feature regular eyes and also separate shades again. And, of course, those points describe "Developement" instead of "Publication History". 2003:CA:3F02:8D99:B1E7:8A68:688C:BDB4 (talk) 11:42, 22 June 2022 (UTC)

Other Artists/Writers
There's not a single word about why George Woodbridge is listed as an author. Are his the unsigned strips of the interim between Prohías and Clarke?

Writer Michael Gallagher is credited for the Strips in MAD #356, 392, 399, 404, 406, 418. He was also, falsely, credited for the strip in #357, which was corrected by an editor's note in #360 attributing the credit to Writer Bill Janocha.

Writer Dave Croatto is credited for the strips in MAD #396 and 400.

Summarizing signatures of strips between Prohias' last (#269) and Kuper's first (#356): Unsigned: #270-283, 319, 321 Signed 'C: #284, 285, 291, 294 Signed 'C/c: #309 Signed 'C/e: #286-290, 292, 293, 295-308, 310, 315-317 Signed 'C/p: #311-314 Signed J. P....e de M....a: #322 Signed M&e; M/E; M/e: #320, 323, 327, 329, 330, 332, 336-338, 340-342, 344, 345, 348, 350-355 Signed M&s: #324, 333-335, 339 Signed M&c: #325 Signed M&b.: #326 Signed M&g: #349

If signature "C" stands for Clarke, "e" and "E" for Edwing, "M" for Manak and "p" for Prohias, then who are "s" and "b."? Does the odd looking "g" (#349) stand for Michael Gallagher? Does the second "c" in signature "C/c" (#309) point to Dave Croatto? And lastly: Who the f... is "J. P....e de  M....a" (signature in #322 (panel 22))?

While on the subject, in addition to the morse code "BY PROHIAS" - still used today - Prohías also signed most of his strips with his written Name "A.Prohias", usually in the last panel. 2003:CA:3F02:8D99:B1E7:8A68:688C:BDB4 (talk) 11:42, 22 June 2022 (UTC)

241 Spy Vs. Spy Strips?!?!?
The table of contents in MAD #163 (Dec. 1973) lists a "Spy Vs. Spy" Strip in the "Joke And Dagger Department" (page 33) but features a not-Spy-related Prohías strip titled "A Witch's Tale" about a witch's flying broom being made into toothpicks. Since the strips featuring the Gray Spy were titled "Spy Vs. Spy Vs. Spy" and were also listed by that title, next to "Spy Vs. Spy" listings, there only was a total of 217 Prohias Spy Vs. Spy strips published in MAD Magazine. In addition, there were 21 "Spy Vs. Spy Vs. Spy" strips (for a total of 238 spy-related strips), plus the one "A Witch's Tale" strip metioned above (239 strips) and 4 political strips (MAD #68 Nyets To You Department). In sum that makes 243 strips written and drawn by Porhías and published in MAD Magazine. A single strip in that body of work spread over two pages and might account for a single miscount. Including the not-spy-but-witch strip and, irrationally, counting the two page "Nyets To You" as one, could be how the source arrived at 241. Don't drive me MAD searching my collection for strips that might not even exist!!!!--2003:CA:3F02:8D2D:F97E:6AF4:FC32:74A6 (talk) 12:21, 24 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Finally found it! MAD #150 features Prohías' colored "The Tourist" on the inside cover which, what-a-surprise, is not listed among the content and, due to the non-spy story, is easily missed. The accurate count of single strips written and drawn by Prohias, including the ones that were not-spy-related, is 244. Thanks for nothing! 2003:CA:3F1D:ADFA:D592:AC09:8C81:A9C3 (talk) 17:39, 14 July 2022 (UTC)