Talk:Squad Advanced Marksman Rifle/Archives/2024/March

1/24/2007 Revisions
Added the Weapons Infobox, moved the AR15 related links and cleaned up the article. Tr1290 21:51, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

KAC Free-floating RAS

 * KAC makes the Free-Floating RAS in three lengths, a 7-inch long M4 Carbine FF RAS (KAC part number: 20208), a 10-inch long M4 Medium FF RAS (KAC part number: 20214), and a 12-inch long M4 Match FF RAS (KAC part number: 99266). There is no "long" M4 Match FF RAS.
 * The section edited was referring to the SAM-R "simulator" used during the Operation Metropolis tests in Guam, which were not the production SAM-R. The pictures are of production SAM-R, not the testbed M16A2 used in Guam.Pettifogger 03:42, 25 Oct 2004 (UTC)

(tin soldier) This is a misunderstanding, on your part, and unclear usage of words, on my part. The    Match FF RAS is commonly referred to within enthusiast circles as the 'long' FF RAS. I had put the term in quotes, indicating it was a term in common usage, not official nomenclature (which I did later put in, sans quotation marks). tin_soldier 03:13, 31 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * The original line had "(this most likely implies the use of the Knight's Armament Company (KAC) M4 Match Free-Floating RAS (Rail Adapter System), and, judging from the photos, would be the long 'Match' model)". The quotes are around Match. Pettifogger 03:36, 31 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * Oh. I stand corrected. Good of you to point that out. I was probably thinking that KMC's use of the term "Match" isn't exactly as descriptive of the tube as the word 'long,' thus the flip flop on the quotes. This "Match" tube also used to be called the "Sniper" tube (both identical, as you know), so, I used the term 'long.'tin solder 04:39, 31 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Is this thing a Kreiger barrel or a Compass Lake barrel?
 * The barrel starts off as a blank made by Krieger. Compass Lake buys the blanks and Frank White at Compass Lake turns and chambers them. Compass Lake has a page on it. Pettifogger 05:01, 7 Nov 2004 (UTC)

8 November 2004 Revisions
The revisions made on 8 November 2004 seem to contradict some of the information I have, which was posted to AR15.com by Wes Grant of MSTN on 9/17/03 and 3/16/04, and by Lt. Col. David Lutz, VP of Military Operations and Support at Knight's Armament Company on 9/20/04. Wes Grant specifically mentions the "KAC 2-stage semi match trigger" and "KAC M4 QD comp flash suppressor" being used. According to the linked article about Project Metropolis, the test simulator for the M16A2 used a "M16A1 trigger with the sear removed". It also mentions "The day optic used was the Trijicon TA31F Advanced Combat Optical Gunsight (ACOG)," and "We used the AN/PVS-17B." There is no mention of use of the Hensoldt Beta Lighted Infantry Telescopic System (BILTS) or of the Leupold scopes. I would very much like to know the sources for the new information. Pettifogger 04:29, 9 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * I read no edits on 8 Nov. I don't know why they wouldn't have considered the Leupold: it was already on use on the Army/Navy SPR, which is quite similar to the SAM-R.Tin soldier
 * The history of the article shows there were edits on November 8 by a user at 66.56.197.182. Official Marine documentation as well as various news reports in Star and Stripes and the Marine Times all report use of the 4x TA31F ACOG in the tests at Guam. There are pictures available of Marines using 4x ACOGs in the tests at Guam. There is no mention of the Leupold CQ/T or the TS-30 scopes. The section of the article was referring to the M16A2 used at Guam to gather test data, not to the actual fielded SAM-R The article should reflect the facts in evidence, not supposition.Pettifogger 09:30, 10 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Unlikely
The 600 yards effective range for an 5.56mm weapon is highly dubious. These projectiles are light and prone to easy diversion by wind, tree leaf and even grass blades. The riling is not ideal, slowing .223 projectiles have a tendency to fly in sideways position. The 600 yard is more suitable for 7.62mm weapons like an SVD Dragunov or the RPK-47 with the long barrel. Effective range of 5.56mm is 300 meters. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 195.70.32.136 (talk) 10:44, 29 January 2007 (UTC).
 * I would have to disagree as the M-16A2 (everyday rifle) is a 5.56 round and is accurate out to 550 yards at a point target. Marines are required to qualify annually at 500 yards.  I don't think that it is to much of a stretch to think that a rifle specifically designed as a marksmanship rifle can get an extra 50 yards of accuracy.--Looper5920 11:05, 29 January 2007 (UTC)
 * I also disagree. Service rifle matches (like the one held at Camp Perry, OH in July) requre the M16 to shoot at 600 yards from the prone position with iron sights.  Winning scores typically require consistently placing the shots within the 10 or X ring (about 12" or 6").  Most shooters use the heavier 77 or 80 grain Sierra BTHP bullets and a fast twist (1:8 or 1:7.7) barrel.  Again, they are using "Iron sights" so the SAM-R rifle should be even more effective with the use of optics.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.243.206.132 (talk) 11:19, 21 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I disagree as well. I've seen finely-tuned .223 AR-15s reach out to 800 yards, so 600 isn't much of a stretch for a standard A2, A4, SDM-R, or SAM-R. Spartan198 (talk) 02:15, 1 January 2010 (UTC)
 * I disagree. In October of 2003, I was among the first Marines to shoot and deploy to Afghanistan with the SAM-R.  In high angle training I shot this weapon at 1,000 yards center mass.  At the time, we used the TS-30 A2 scopes.  There were 1 or 2 other Marines who shot 1,100 yards.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.126.165.28 (talk) 15:06, 26 December 2011 (UTC)

Title
Shouldn't we abbreviate the title, or at least a portion of it so it isn't ridiculously long? Koalorka (talk) 18:45, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

Serious timeline issues
You guys need to take a closer look at your timeline for the service of the SAM-R system. By 2011-2012 and earlier into 2009-2010, infantry battalions were using mk12 and mk11 as our DM rifles. I know for certain my company had no sam-r and had never heard if anyone with them in 2011 (marjah). Perhaps you guys need to go back and look at the collection of dm rifle pages as a whole and get them synced up. Also, the m27 is not a dm rifle per se, it is filling the role of automatic rifleman. It is accurate enough that precision shots have been taken with it in theater but the optic (sdo) is not optimized for that role. Good luck and hopefully you guys can get this figured out,.because right now it is pretty rough when viewed from someone on the inside. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.184.38.116 (talk) 01:03, 1 September 2015 (UTC)