Talk:Sri Lanka Matha/Archive 3

Analyzing the sources
OBIs

Questionable from 2015
'''do not use websites that mirror Wikipedia content or publications that rely on material from Wikipedia as sources. Content from a Wikipedia article is not considered reliable unless it is backed up by citing reliable sources. Confirm that these sources support the content, then use them directly. '''
 * May 2015 https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Sri_Lanka_Matha&oldid=659275665 : International Business Times - Sushmita Sen, DNA of New Delhi - Aakanksha Singh, NewsX - Charnamrit Sachdeva, Hindustan Times
 * August 2015 https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Sri_Lanka_Matha&oldid=672388878 : India Today

UNRELIABLE; CAN't BE USED TO BACK UP STATEMENT OF FACT
'''self-published media are largely not acceptable. Self-published books and newsletters, personal pages on social networking sites, tweets, and posts on Internet forums are all examples of self-published media.'''
 * SELF PUBLISHED: Ashish Nandy, Sudip Bhattacharya

Editorial commentary, analysis and opinion pieces, whether written by the editors of the publication (editorials) or outside authors (op-eds) are reliable primary sources for statements attributed to that editor or author, but are rarely reliable for statements of fact.
 * OPINION: Haroon Habib of the HINDU, Mamun Rashid of Dhaka Tribune, Bipin Dani of Pakistan Observer, Khaled Ahmed of the Indian Express

BlueLotusLK (talk) 00:50, 12 January 2017 (UTC)
 * ClEAR ERRORS that disqualify their use: NTV (claim Tamil national anthem), Bengali Daily Star (admitted history of false articles)


 * Well, folks, I am in Canada so this topic is outside my area. I cannot comment on what the Sri Lanka Matha article should include. I hope that you can use the sources I found OR find some other recent experts from newspaper articles. If you simply cannot resolve the dispute among yourselves then you might consider filing for Mediation These are the sources that I found.


 * The anthem, called "Sri Lanka Matha," was authored by Ananda Samarakoon, a student of Shantiniketan. It is said to have been influenced by Rabindranath Tagore. Criticising the government’s move, Uday Gammanpila, leader of the Pivithuru Hela Urumaya, said there is no Constitutional sanction for the action. http://www.thehindu.com/news/international/sri-lanka-iday-to-have-anthem-in-tamil/article8189939.ece
 * The original Sinhala song written by Ananda Samarakoon has been translated into Tamil by poet Muthuthambi. And the music score is the same. Therefore these hardliners are nothing but extreme racists who reject anything Tamil and who are trying to take our country backwards. Tamil speaking people of this country have been using the Tamil national anthem for the last 65 years until a group led by Wimal Weerawansa and Udaya Gammanpila opposed it in 2010 – Leader of the Democratic People’s Front Minister Mano Ganesan ..... "The original Sinhala song written by Ananda Samarakoon has been translated into Tamil by poet Muthuthambi. And the music score is the same. http://www.thesundayleader.lk/2015/03/22/national-anthem-in-tamil-mixed-reactions/
 * Most of you readers must be aware as to who composed our national anthem. It was Ananda Samarakoon. On his return from Shantinikethan, Rabindranath Tagore's School of Music and Dance, he set a new style both in the composition of songs and in singing which were very different to the Tower Hall style then in vogue in Ceylon. The songs were in simple every-day Sinhala and the tunes appealing to the masses. Ananda Samarakoon has admitted that he was greatly influenced by the Tagore school of music this was in the late 1930s. .... It is on record that Namo Namo Matha - now Sri Lanka Matha - was composed while he was a teacher at Mahinda Colege, Galle. T.D. Jayasuriya then Chief Inspector of Schools for the Southern Province had suggested to Samarakoon to compose a song that would inspire a feeling of patriotism in the listeners. Namo Namo Matha was his response to Jayasuriya's suggestion. He called it a Jatika Geeya national song. Samarakoon has made a note in one of his books that he composed it in October 1940. ....This fact was stated in an article in the tabloid Nava Yugaya of Nov. 5, 1984. It was first sung in public before W. Dahanayaka, then Mayor of Galle. He was accompanied by Elain de Silva with whom he had earlier sung the duet Endada Menike. Two years later in 1942 he sang Namo Namo Matha in a 'Sarala Gee' programme on Radio Ceylon. This time he was accompanied by a pupil of his, Swarna de Silva who was then his partner in singing duets. The song first appeared in print in 1943 in a book of songs titled Kumudini with a foreword by T.D. Jayasuriya. Namo Namo Matha and some other songs that Samarakoon sang with Swarna de Silva were recorded by H.M.V. the gramaphone record company. http://www.hirunews.lk/125414/origin-our-national-anthem
 * It was in 1951 that newly independent Lanka adopted Shantiniketan-trained Ananda Samarakoon’s Sinhalese-language song  "Sri Lanka Matha,  Apa Sri Lanka" as the national anthem. Simultaneously,  a Tamil version, "Sri Lanka Thaaye Nam Sri Lanka", composed by the Lankan Tamil poet, M.Nallathambi, was also adopted. For decades, both versions were sung, although only the Sinhalese version had constitutional sanction.     http://www.adaderana.lk/news/30176/sirisena-allows-singing-of-lankan-national-anthem-in-tamil#sthash.PdpkXKbA.dpuf
 * The Sri Lankan National Anthem was written and composed by the late Ananda Samarakoon in 1940. It was officially adopted as the National Anthem of Sri Lanka on November 22, 1951, by a committee headed by Sir Edwin Wijeyeratne. Samarakoon who was a student of the great Indian musician Rabindranath Tagore and reportedly the tune had been influenced by Tagore's genre of music. The Sri Lankan national anthem was translated into Tamil by M.Nallathamby and for decades, both versions were sung without any restrictions, although only the Sinhalese version had constitutional sanction. As the majority of Sri Lankans speak the Sinhala language, theSinhala version of the National Anthem is mainly used in Sri Lanka for State and private events. The Sinhala version is also the only version used during international sports and other events. http://archives.sundayobserver.lk/2015/03/22/fea15.asp Peter K Burian (talk) 02:56, 12 January 2017 (UTC)
 * Being Canadian is good because it means you are a neutral third party. And as such you've been of great help bringing attention to the fact that articles that deal exclusively with the anthem state that Ananda Samarakoon is the author as opposed to articles that only deal with the anthem in passing (Obi's sources) which make the Tagore claim while not even displaying even rudimentary knowledge of Sri Lanka. So articles that deal exclusively with the anthem as well as Western sources like the CIA World Factbook support my view meaning it should be given precedence over Obi's. I think that settles the issue unless Obi wants to go to mediation. BlueLotusLK (talk) 03:41, 12 January 2017 (UTC)


 * ok yes. I will do some editing on this article in the next day or two. After reading all those articles I know quite a bit about several issues of this topic. User: Peter K Burian from my cell phone. January 12 2017. 1:22pm Eastern Standard Time in Toronto


 * Please don't just take BlueLotusLK's word for anything. Please read some of the WP:RS which state that Tagore wrote the anthem, in full or in part:
 * 1. Nira Wickramasinghe (2003): "After the mass at St. Mary's Church, one of the largest churches in Ceylon, Boy Scouts and Girl Guides formed a guard of honour in front of the Church and a large number of school children sang the national anthem, the music of which was composed by Rabindranath Tagore."


 * Vague - Which National Anthem? "Jana Gana Mana?"
 * 2. Junaidul Haque / The Daily Star (7 May 2011): "In April 2011 we learned that Sri Lanka's national anthem was also penned by Tagore. 'Apa Sri Lanka, Nama Nama Nama Nama Mata, Sundar Sri Boroni' was originally 'Nama Nama Sri Lanka Mata' in Bangla, written and set to tune by Rabindranath. He did so at the request of his favourite Sri Lankan student at Shantiniketan, Ananda Samarkun, in 1938. In 1940 Ananda returned to his native land and in 1946 he translated the song into Sinhalese and recorded it in Tagore's tune".


 * The Daily Star known for publishing false articles
 * 3. Haroon Habib / The Hindu (17 May 2011): "Sri Lanka's national anthem was also penned by Tagore: Apa Sri Lanka, Nama Nama Nama Nama Mata, Sundar Sri Boroni was originally Nama Nama Sri Lanka Mata in Bangla, written and set to its tune by Tagore. He did it at the request of his favourite Sri Lankan student at Santiniketan, Ananda Samarkun, in 1938. In 1940, Ananda returned to his native land and translated the song into Sinhalese and recorded it in Tagore's tune".


 * Yes, Tagore was teaching at Santiniketan and not bed-ridden in Calcutta in 1938 as reality shows. Ananda also became his favorite student! Also, this is an opinion piece.
 * 4. Ashis Nandy / Occasion, Stanford University (17 February 2012): "Tagore also scored Sri Lanka’s national anthem, though he did not write the lyrics".


 * Isn't aware of the name of the song "Namo Namo Mata" or Ananda Samarakoon. Really sparse on details. Also disagrees with the other sources and says Tagore did not write the lyrics.
 * 5. J. P. Alexander (2014): "It is indeed a matter of national pride that Tagore also scripted the anthem of Sri Lanka, apart from "Jana Gana Mana"!"


 * Isn't aware of the name of the song "Namo Namo Mata" or Ananda Samarakoon. He scripted some vague anthem.
 * 6. Raj Gonsalkorale/ Asian Tribune (14 March 2015): "In recalling the history of the Sri Lankan National Anthem, the great Bengali poet Rabindranath Tagore’s association with it is reported in The Hindu."


 * Repeating the disreputable Hindu source.
 * 7. Aakanksha Singh / (7 May 2015): "The original song of Sri Lanka's National Anthem was also written and tuned by Tagore".


 * What is the original song? Is it "Namo Namo Mata." Where does Ananda Samarakoon come into this? Did Tagore head down to Sri Lanka to hand in his contribution? Also according to Obi the actress wrote this.
 * 8. Sushmita Sen / International Business Times (8 May 2015): "[Tagore's] notable works include 'Gitanjali', Rabindra Sangeet, India's National Anthem 'Jana Gana Mana', Bangladesh's anthem 'Amar Shonar Bangla' and also, the original song of Sri Lanka's National Anthem".


 * What is the original song? Is it "Namo Namo Mata." Where does Ananda Samarakoon come into this? Did Tagore head down to Sri Lanka to hand in his contribution? Also according to Obi the actress wrote this.
 * 9. Hindustan Times (9 May 2015): "few know that Sri Lanka's national anthem is based on a Bengali song originally written by Tagore in 1938. It was translated into Sinhalese and adopted as the national anthem in 1951."


 * Bears a striking resemblence to the text of the WIKI article in May 2015.
 * 10. Khaled Ahmed / The Indian Express (12 June 2015) - "Another poem by [Tagore] about Sri Lanka was actually translated into Sinhalese and set to music by Sri Lankan genius Ananda Samarakoon, a Tagore pupil, in 1940; it became the national anthem of Sri Lanka in 1951."


 * Bears a striking resemblence to the text of the WIKI article in May 2015.
 * 11. India Today (7 August 2015): "[Tagore] wrote...'Nama Nama Sri Lanka Mata', in Bengali, for Sri Lanka."
 * 12. Mamun Rashid / Dhaka Tribune (13 August 2015): "The lyrics and music for the original song of Sri Lanka’s national anthem were also the works of Tagore".


 * Opinion piece, sparse on details - seems inspired by the rumour spread above.
 * 13. Sudip Bhattacharyya (2015): "Another poem by [Tagore] about Sri Lanka was actually translated into Sinhalese and set to music by Sri Lankan genius Ananda Samarakoon, a Tagore pupil, in 1940; it became the national anthem of Sri Lanka in 1951."


 * SELF PUBLISHED; Bears a striking resemblence to the text of the WIKI article in May 2015.
 * 14. Bipin Dani / Pakistan Observer (20 March 2016): "The National Anthem for Sri Lanka was also first written by [Tagore] in Bengali which was later translated in their local language".


 * Opinion piece, not even bothered figuring out what the local language is. Repeating a rumour about Tagore writing some song that was adapted in Sri Lanka.
 * 15. Charnamrit Sachdeva / NewsX (23 March 2016): "not many are aware that...the lyrics of Sri Lanka’s National Anthem were given by [Tagore]."


 * Yes, not many are aware because it is not true. Does this source believe Tagore wrote the Sinhala lyrics because it doesn't have anything about translating.
 * 16. NTV (Bangladesh) (7 May 2016): "While [Tagore] both penned and composed the National Anthem for both India and Bangladesh, Sri Lanka’s anthem was also written by him in Bengali in 1938. After the country got independence, the song was translated in Tamil and few lines were changed and adopted as its National Anthem".


 * Here Tagore writes a song and its translated into TAMIL before it is adopted as the Sri Lankan anthem. This source is so ignorant that they don't even bother learning that Sri Lankans speak Sinhala as the majority language.
 * -- obi2canibe talk contr 20:36, 12 January 2017 (UTC)
 * Please don't take Obi's word for anything. According to his sources Tagore wrote something and then it was translated into Tamil before being adopted as the Sri Lankan National Anthem when Samarakoon didn't speak Tamil. His sources include self publised and opinion pieces which can't be used to back statements of fact according to WP:RS which he ignores making a mockery of wikipedia policy and only deal with the National Anthem in passing hence making them not as credible as the sources that deal with the National Anthem exclusively. BlueLotusLK (talk) 20:48, 12 January 2017 (UTC)


 * According to Obi's sources, Tagore wrote both the words and the music or just the music and not the words or just the words and not the music to the original song of the Sri Lankan National Anthem and it was translated into Sinhala or Tamil by someone or handed to his favorite student Ananda Samarakoon in 1938 before being translated by him in 1940 and being adopted as the National Anthem in 1951. <- his sources are not even consistent to state one single narrative. BlueLotusLK (talk) 21:36, 12 January 2017 (UTC)

I am not taking anyone's word for anything. I have conduncted my own research - using 2015 and 2016 sources - all major news organizations. There has been extensive coverage of the anthem since February 2016 and most of the articles that I have read were written since that time. Peter K Burian (talk) 23:27, 12 January 2017 (UTC)

Finished editing - origin and use of the Tamil version of the anthem
I have completed my edits, using major newspaper articles (from Sri Lanka, England and India), most from 2015 and 2016, as well as BBC sources re: the origin of the anthem and the use (and legality) of the Tamil translation.

Since I am Canadian, I am totally unbiased and have based the edits on the facts as reported by the highly-respected news agencies. Hopefully, this well rounded version will stop the arguments which have been going on here on the Talk page.

Some other sections of the article might also benefit from revision, based on articles published by the major news media. I will not work on those and I hope they will not re-start the arguments. Peter K Burian (talk) 13:37, 13 January 2017 (UTC)

These are the sections where I have done major revisions:

''ORIGIN: Although there has been disagreement as to the origin of the anthem, the formally recognized source, as discussed at great length in the news media before and after the February 2016 independence day celebration, is as follows. The song is an original, written in Sinhala by Ananda Samarakoon after he returned from Shantinikethan, the School of Music and Dance operated by the renowned Indian musician Rabindranath Tagore. According to several sources, including Hiru News, "Ananda Samarakoon has admitted that he was greatly influenced by the Tagore school of music this was in the late 1930s.[15] It was officially adopted as the national anthem of Sri Lanka on November 22, 1951, by a committee headed by Sir Edwin Wijeyeratne[16][17][18] ''

''TAMIL VERSION: The Cabinet's December 2010 decision to scrap the Tamil translation of the anthem[43] (which was not subsequently enacted) caused much furore in Sri Lanka. Later, the government denied allegations that the Tamil translation was to be abolished.[44] The Presidential Secretariat has stated that there was no basis to the media report and follow up reports which intimated the same.[45] Nevertheless, an unofficial ban[46] on the Tamil version came into being as fearful public officials in Tamil speaking areas stopped using the Tamil version or blocked attempts to use it.''

During Sri Lanka's 68th national independence day celebrations on 4 February 2016, the Tamil version of the anthem was sung for the first time since 1949 at an official government event, the independence day celebrations.[57] Lifting of the unofficial ban on the Tamil version had been approved by President Maithripala Sirisena (who had said he would unite the nation after the nearly 26-year civil war that ended in 2009) and by others in the government.[58] This step was viewed as part of the plan for "post-civil war ethnic reconciliation".[59]

''Naturally, Sri Lanka Matha was also sung in the majority Sinhalese. Some groups, and Sri Lanka's former President Mahinda Rajapaksa, were opposed to the government officially allowing the Tamil version to be sung.[60][61][25][62][63]'' Peter K Burian (talk) 13:42, 13 January 2017 (UTC)


 * Thanks for your efforts but I'm afraid the WP:NPOV issue has still not been resolved. I have opened a case at DRN if you wish to comment. FYI the Tamil version wasn't part of this dispute.-- obi2canibe talk contr 20:03, 13 January 2017 (UTC)

Dispute Resolution process has started
fyi to anyone interested in this topic.

obi2canibe has opened a case dispute resolution case about the origin of the anthem. (Who wrote it?} at DRN

Peter K Burian (talk) 21:00, 13 January 2017 (UTC)


 * I got a note that the Dispute Resolution will be handled by JustBerry Peter K Burian (talk) 16:56, 14 January 2017 (UTC)


 * This was the content I had written after extensive research via 2015 and 2016 articles from major news agencies in several countries: Although there has been disagreement as to the origin of the anthem, the formally recognized source, as discussed at great length in the news media before and after the February 2016 independence day celebration, is as follows. The song is an original, written in Sinhala by Ananda Samarakoon after he returned from Shantinikethan, the School of Music and Dance operated by the renowned Indian musician Rabindranath Tagore. According to several sources, including Hiru News, "Ananda Samarakoon has admitted that he was greatly influenced by the Tagore school of music this was in the late 1930s.[15] It was officially adopted as the national anthem of Sri Lanka on November 22, 1951, by a committee headed by Sir Edwin Wijeyeratne[16][17][18]


 * My sources: 15. "The Origin of Our National Anthem". Hiru News. Sri Lanka. 4 February 2016. Retrieved 12 January 2017. 16.Karunarathne, Waruni (22 March 2016). "National Anthem In Tamil: Mixed Reactions". The Sunday Leader. Sri Lanka. Retrieved 12 January 2017. 17.Kodagoda, By Anuradha (22 March 2015). "A matter of language". Sunday Observer, The Associated Newspapers of Ceylon Ltd. Sri Lanka. Retrieved 12 January 2017. 18."Sirisena allows singing of Lankan national anthem in Tamil". Ada Derana News Portal. Ada Derana. 18 March 2015. Retrieved 12 January 2017. "In a major reconciliatory move, Sri Lankan President Mathripala Sirisena will be sending a circular to all institutions saying that there is no bar on singing the Lankan national anthem in Tamil" '''  Peter K Burian (talk) 16:56, 14 January 2017 (UTC)

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Expansion of the lead section
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Gk
National anthem of sri lanka 42.108.65.14 (talk) 08:47, 20 June 2023 (UTC)