Talk:St. Stephen's Episcopal School (Austin, Texas)

May 2008 - Let's Clean This Up
I'd like to make this a good article. Let's discuss in this talk page section how we can improve it. --Danorton 19:38, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

"Saint" or "St." ?
Although the school's seal reads "Saint Stephen's" the school otherwise almost exclusively refers to itself as "St. Stephen's". Consequently, I've chosen the latter and made the usage consistent in the article. -- 04:15, 10 May 2008 (UTC)
 * It is St. I go there. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2602:306:35B0:5980:C69:504:ABAF:B10D (talk • contribs) 01:45, 14 April 2015 (UTC)

Misc
Someone did a major rewrite of this. Who was it, since I'm probably a classmate of yours?Foster2008 00:24, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

Does Boyd Vance really count as a famous alumnus!?!?! --Oliver Meek '97

He's all we got.Foster2008 00:24, 25 August 2006 (UTC)'08

Naming Chris Breckwoldt under the famous people category certainly does not count. Mr. Binky may be a great math teacher, but he is not famous. And Boyd Vance does count as a famous alum - he is well known in other circles besides Austin. Also.. "Jebby Smith" -- I'm PRETTY sure this is NOT the founder. Dear, sweet middle schoolers -- stop messing with wiki.70.253.81.24 00:15, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

You cannot have a "most unique" anything, as unique equals one of a kind. -- unsigned comment

I just added a "needs work" box on this page. My complaints primarily stem from the use of the following "weasel word" phrases:


 * "commonly known"
 * "widely regarded"
 * "widely recognized"
 * "wide appeal"

I'd prefer someone did some background checking and support the claims with objective references but, lacking that, it is my intention to remove the claims entirely. --Danorton 18:50, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

Danorton - you take this WAY to0 seriously. --Connor Class of 2007 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 155.48.150.21 (talk) 2008-07-18T15:35:10 UTC (IP address owned by Babson College)

Connor, Danorton is taking this seriously because Wikipedia is a place people go for reliable information. This page has too many issues, currently. On that note, if you're an Alumni, stop giving us a bias opinion, okay? I'm currently enrolled in St.Stephen's, and I love it here, but online, we don't give ourselves good names. I'm going to try and fix this issue ASAP. And stop using slang in the discussion page, please. --Fiard 8:32, 10 April 2011

I don't see any weasel words, but the tag is still up on the page. -- 3 June 2011 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.34.100.246 (talk) 15:10, 3 June 2011 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:StainedGlass.jpg
Image:StainedGlass.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

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BetacommandBot (talk) 06:30, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

Notability of Alumna Lauren C. King
I see no evidence to support the inclusion of Lauren C. King in the list of alumni. For more information, see the related Wikipedia guideline about notability. --Danorton 21:05, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

Here's a google search of the production company listed that she works for: and a link to her information on imdb :   —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.89.165.83 (talk) 13:34, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

Did a simple google search and noticed this as well: According to the Screen Actors Guild she is producing five movies this year. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.89.165.83 (talk) 13:42, 9 May 2008 (UTC) More links from google search: —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.89.165.83 (talk) 14:11, 9 May 2008 (UTC)


 * I see no reference to her in the SAG link and the other references are little more than directory entries. Thousands upon thousands of people have similar credits.  Is there something that makes her particularly notable?  Again, please review the related Wikipedia guideline about notability. --Danorton 16:09, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

The SAG link lists her production company (according to imdb she is the CEO & Executive Producer) Angelblue Productions LLC and lists I counted at least four projects being filmed in Texas that her company is producing. Both Lauren King & Blake Mycoskie seem to have credits listed that are provided by neutral and legitimate sources. I hadn't noticed the thousands of other credits by alumni. Variety and Hollywood Reporter are considered pretty legitimate within the entertainment industry and outside, and they stated she specifically is executive producing those projects rather than a "directory entry". Just helping out since the page stated it needed assistance finding valid and verifiable information. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.62.156.210 (talk) 21:04, 9 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Thanks. There are many directors who are producing multiple films, so I'm still not seeing how this person is of encyclopedic notability.  The following is lifted from the current version of the related notability guideline:


 * Scientists, academics, economists, professors, authors, editors, journalists, filmmakers, photographers, artists, architects, engineers, and other creative professionals:
 * The person is regarded as an important figure or is widely cited by their peers or successors.
 * The person is known for originating a significant new concept, theory or technique.
 * The person has created, or played a major role in co-creating, a significant or well-known work, or collective body of work, which has been the subject of an independent book or feature-length film, or of multiple independent periodical articles or reviews.
 * The person's work either (a) has become a significant monument, (b) has been a substantial part of a significant exhibition, (c) has won significant critical attention, or (d) is represented within the permanent collections of several notable galleries or museums, or had works in many significant libraries.

As stated below, I am finding the links for you guys for both Lauren King and Blake Mycoskie. My niece attends school in Katy ISD and Lauren King's production company donated a large amount of money to the schools. Katy ISD has set up an endowment in her name and HISD is in the process of doing the same. ABC News discussed this as well. I will provide you guys with the links for her as well, as stated below. Again, hopefully you will deem those rather noteworthy. In addition to the fact that she, like many others as you note, have produced many films as well. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.62.156.210 (talk) 22:34, 9 May 2008 (UTC) Newspaper article in Ireland discussing Lauren King's upcoming production and the actors in it.   [ http://www.amazon.com/Behind-Palisades-Lauren-C-King/dp/1434810577/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1210452460&sr=8-1 ]

Those are a few links. I am looking for the press releases published by Katy ISD and HISD last year discussing the endowment in Lauren King's name. Also the ABC News link. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 166.124.98.21 (talk) 20:54, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

Notability of Alum Blake Mycoskie
I do not see sufficient evidence to support the inclusion of Blake Mycoskie in the list of alumni. For more information, see the related Wikipedia guideline about notability. --Danorton 21:05, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

Here's some links for Blake Mycoskie as well. His imdb page:, TOMS shoes google search: , and Blake Mycoskie google search:  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.89.165.83 (talk) 13:37, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

Just found another link to include:  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.89.165.83 (talk) 13:48, 9 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Several of the links you mentioned are published by Mycoskie himself. Millions of people have similar credits.  Is there something that makes him particularly notable -- of encyclopedic notability?  Again, please review the related Wikipedia guideline about notability. --Danorton 16:17, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

Again, my apologies. Didn't realize that Blake had written the reviews on Oprah and Vanity Fair magazines. He has had quite a few interviews on television and in magazines and newspapers. More so than Boyd Vance. It seems particularly notable to people outside of Austin, Texas. The original statement for both Blake Mycoskie and Lauren King was that there was insufficient evidence to include them in the list of alumni. It stated that a simple google search provided mass quantities of information for Boyd Vance. Hence the reason you wrote a stub to support it. I was attempting to assist with finding information for you guys. I know according to IMDB, Lauren King is the CEO of Angelblue Productions, so therefore her company is producing the five films listed in SAG. SAG lists her company specifically as producing five films this year. I saw both Blake Mycoskie and Lauren King were listed in outside sources, that they clearly did not publish themselves. Boyd Vance, seems more notable within the Austin, Texas community rather than the entertainment industry. He wasn't listed in the IMDB at all, which seems fairly accurate and neutral. For a "prominent and notable" director it would seem that he would have had at least one entry in the imdb. I could be wrong. You said millions of people have similar credits, yet Boyd Vance did not. I thought both seemed particularly newsworthy. Again, my apologies, simply trying to be of assistance.


 * Could you possibly provide links to the articles you mention about Mycoskie? (If you look at the article about Boyd Vance, you'll see that the references are not to Google searches.  There are only a very a tiny fraction of notable stage directors in IMDB.)  Thank you. --Danorton 21:50, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

I read the stub on Boyd Vance, and I noticed that all the references were from Austin TX outlets, that was why I stated he seems more notable within the Austin TX community. I am well aware of the number of stage directors in IMDB. I have worked within the entertainment industry for the past 20 years. I have had the pleasure of meeting both Blake Mycoskie and Lauren King. Both of which I have mentioned either their names or projects they are working on and people have heard of them. I know Katy ISD and Houston ISD as well as ABC news in Houston have done pieces on Lauren King and her production company's donations to the Houston schools. I will add her links above under her section. Below are some of the links for Blake Mycoskie:

http://www.america.gov/st/foraid-english/2008/February/20080228151911akllennoccm1.350039e-02.html     These are a few that I found on the first few pages of a google search. Those should suffice for Blake Mycoskie, hopefully. The Vanity Fair article is a pictorial. I found the link on the photographer's site. Off to look for the link from Vanity Fair. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.62.156.210 (talk) 22:26, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

Wonderful, thanks very much. I'm convinced. Now I just need to find out his last year of attendance... --Danorton 22:46, 9 May 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Danorton (talk • contribs)

Blake graduated in 1996. . . Maybe I should take over this page? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 166.124.98.21 (talk) 20:23, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

Well, no one can really "take over" or "own" a page. Generally, anyone at all can edit any page (most pages can be edited anonymously), and all are encouraged to edit boldly. Expect people to change what you edit. The best approach is to discuss it on the talk page if there's any question. But please, by all means, edit the article to include Blake's year of graduation and list him in order on the existing list. -- Danorton 01:15, 11 May 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Danorton (talk • contribs)

Notability of Alum L. Jeffrey Minch
I do not see any evidence to support the inclusion of L. Jeffrey Minch in the list of alumni. For more information, see the related Wikipedia guideline about notability. --Danorton 21:11, 4 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Note in this page's revision history that this section has been deleted three times by a person at Internet IP address 24.178.78.226.
 * This IP address corresponds to the internet name 24-178-78-226.dhcp.athn.ga.charter.com which identifies it as being in Athens, Georgia.
 * The UGA Delta Tau Delta fraternity website shows a "Leonard Jeffrey Stephen Minch" who claims to attend the University of Georgia in Athens and plans to graduate in December 2008. --Danorton 22:01, 9 May 2008 (UTC)


 * This section was deleted again by someone at Internet IP address 190.33.59.59. --Danorton (talk) 02:19, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

Notability of Alum Boyd Vance
The notability of Boyd Vance (Class of 1975) was questioned above. I believe that he satisfies the Wikipedia notability guideline. I cite the numerous independent articles easily located on the web by Google search.

I have restored Boyd to the list of notable alumni. --Danorton 22:12, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

More information about Boyd Vance is on his wiki page that I just created. --Danorton 02:19, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

Major Cleanup Imminent
I noted numerous problems with this article several months ago and there has been little improvement and regular vandalism. If no one else is interested, I'll do a little digging and add some references, but unless I get some help from others, I'll likely end up removing most of the content, as it's either unreferenced or self-referenced. Please help! If you'd like to help, but haven't done much article editing, please review these Wikipedia policies and guidelines that relate directly to the issues I noted (the quotations are my personal selections from the articles):
 * Verifiability - "If no reliable, third-party sources can be found for an article topic, Wikipedia should not have an article on it."
 * No original research - "[A]ll material in Wikipedia must be attributable to a reliable, published source."
 * Neutral point of view - "When editorial bias toward one particular point of view can be detected, the article needs to be fixed."
 * (See also the NPOV tutorial.)
 * Citing sources - "If you do not know how to format a citation, provide as much information as you can, and others will help to write it correctly."
 * Notability (people) - "[M]ultiple independent sources may be needed to prove notability; trivial coverage of a subject by secondary sources may not be sufficient to establish notability."

Regarding discussions on this talk page: As I mentioned before, I'd like to see this become a "good article," but that's only likely to happen with the contributions of several editors. Thanks! --Danorton (talk) 05:41, 27 August 2008 (UTC) Small text
 * Civility - "Editors are expected to remain civil, refrain from making personal attacks, operate within the scope of policies, and are urged to be responsive to good-faith questions."
 * Consensus - "[U]se the talk page to discuss improvements to the article, and to form consensus concerning the editing of the page."
 * Also see the article on the "BOLD, revert, discuss cycle."
 * Finally, review the Talk page guidelines.

Notablility of Alum Janna Ryan
I'd say being the wife of a vice presidential candidate of a major party is good enough for a mention on your high school's wikipedia page. Apparently some don't think so since the entry has been deleted twice. Is she notable enough that she deserves her own wikipedia page yet? No, probably not. If her husband were to win and become VPOTUS, then she'd probably rate her own page. But how can someone object to her now being notable enough to include on this page? 98.196.14.18 (talk) 20:45, 13 September 2012 (UTC)


 * Wikipedia edits must be backed by reliable sources. Time Magazine says Janna Ryan attended Camp Waldemar school in Hunt, Texas, not St. Stephen's Episcopal School in Austin, Texas. All biographical information on living people must be supported by reliable sources. so unless you have a reliable source to back your original research, Janna Ryan must be removed from the Alumni section. Mesconsing (talk) 18:04, 18 September 2012 (UTC)


 * Time magazine is wrong. A minimal amount of searching on your part would have informed you that Camp Waldemar is a "camp" and not a school, so Time may be a source, but a "reliable" source? Maybe not. Janna and her sister Dana both graduated from St. Stephen's, and photographs of them can easily be found in St. Stephen's yearbooks published between 1985-1988. For example, Janna's senior page is page #29 of the 1987 St. Stephen's "Deacon" (otherwise know as a "primary source") But if you want to go with LESS accurate information from Time magazine, be my guest! 98.196.14.18 (talk) 18:30, 18 September 2012 (UTC)


 * I suggest you take some time learning about Wikipedia policies. One of its core policies is Verifiability, not truth. That means that material added to Wikipedia must have been published previously by a reliable source. WP:BLP also says that biographical information on living people must have a reliable source. All you have to do is add a reliable source to the Janna Ryan entry, and it can stay. -- Mesconsing (talk) 18:40, 18 September 2012 (UTC)


 * How unfortunate for Wikipedia. Is the school itself a "reliable" source? On page 10, Janna Little Ryan (class of 1987) and her husband Paul Ryan are listed as contributors to the school. http://www.sstx.org/images/annualReport2004.pdf. I find it sad that someone would need to jump through hoops in this manner to correct misinformation from so-called "reliable" sources. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.196.14.18 (talk) 18:51, 18 September 2012 (UTC)


 * The policy requiring reliable sources is to prevent anyone from adding spurious information to Wikipedia. That's particularly important for living people. Although using entities (e.g., schools) as sources for information on themselves is discouraged (because it's a conflict of interest and potentially self-serving and biased), it's not prohibited. The source to which you linked seems reliable for that particular information. Still, Janna Ryan is not notable. The rule of thumb is that for someone to be included in a list, s/he must be independently notable, i.e., s/he must have a Wikipedia article, as do all the entries in the Alumni list in this article, except Janna Ryan. As soon as she gets her own article, she can be added to the alumni list. -- Mesconsing (talk) 19:10, 18 September 2012 (UTC)


 * "Still, Janna Ryan is not notable." According to whom? You must be kidding yourself. Of course she's notable. https://www.google.com/search?btnG=1&pws=0&q=Janna+Ryan She's had huge amounts of media attention in the past several weeks and you, yourself even stated just a little while ago that "All you have to do is add a reliable source to the Janna Ryan entry, and it can stay." So you appeared to think she was notable enough then? Why not now? Does she need a page that's as detailed as Viola Canales? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viola_Canales That should take all of 30 seconds to put together. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.196.14.18 (talk) 19:26, 18 September 2012 (UTC)


 * According to whom? According to Wikipedia. Read the policy: WP:LISTPEOPLE. A person may be included in a list of people if the person meets the Wikipedia notability requirement. It has already been determined on one or more talk pages or notice boards that Janna Little does not meet the WP notability requirement, so give it a rest. -- Mesconsing (talk) 19:51, 18 September 2012 (UTC)


 * Sure, whatever. Boyd Vance is notable, but Janna Ryan, who has been on national television and mentioned hundreds of times in the political media in the past few weeks somehow isn't. LOL. You certainly aren't much for logic, especially considering how you've changed your tune since your original objection was to the reference and not to her notability. Obviously there's some political sour grapes going on here as well since Jill Biden had her own page back in 2008, well before her husband became vice president. Janna Ryan was already mentioned on her husband's page - which I linked to. And that link plus her verified status as an SSS graduate are good enough evidence for me to decide that her link here is appropriate. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.196.14.18 (talk) 20:11, 18 September 2012 (UTC)

One of the previous discussions on Janna Ryan's notability took place here:.

You may not like the decision, but Wikipedia operates on the basis of consensus (WP:CONS). Editors are also expected to assume the good faith (WP:AGF) of other editors. Please learn about Wikipedia policies and precedents and proper Wikiquette (WP:ETIQ) before spouting off and insulting other editors. -- Mesconsing (talk) 20:39, 18 September 2012 (UTC)


 * "Spouting off?" Hardly. I'm merely pointing out that you don't appear to be able to back up your rationale. First you claimed that the link wasn't sourced appropriately. Then, once I did provide a source that you found suitable, you decided to move the goalposts so you could try to ignore your earlier statement: "All you have to do is add a reliable source to the Janna Ryan entry, and it can stay." It's intellectually dishonest to try to maintain that a person who is involved (even as a spouse) in a national presidential election isn't notable. Want proof? Go look at past elections, and until you get into the 60's, EVERY *losing* VP candidate's spouse (but one) has a Wikipedia page! The last losing VP spouse who doesn't have one is Lloyd Bentsen's wife from the 1988 race with Dukakis. Every other one: Todd Palin, Elizabeth Edwards, Hadassah Lieberman, Elizabeth Dole, John Zaccaro, Joan Mondale, Eunice Kennedy Shriver has one. Care to explain that? You can claim that there's a "consensus" but I'm showing you the actual consensus - what has Wikipedia done (or not done) with the spouses of people who ran for (but did not win) VP. Since 1972, in all cases but ONE, Wikipedia has created a page for that person. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.196.14.18 (talk) 21:20, 18 September 2012 (UTC)
 * The link I provided already explained that. The talk page of St. Stephen's Episcopal School (Austin, Texas) is not the place to question the lack of an article for Janna Ryan. Please take your concern to the appropriate WP page. -- Mesconsing (talk) 21:33, 18 September 2012 (UTC)


 * Sorry, you'll have to be more specific about what "that" is. And fyi, I did not question the lack of an article for Janna. What I did do was show that EVERY VP candidate spouse (save one) winds up with a Wikipedia article page about them even if their spouse loses the election, so your objection to her status as a notable alumnus isn't convincing because she already satisfies Wikipedia's criteria for being a 'notable' person with many secondary sources of information about her, she is a public figure, and history shows that her red article link will eventually turn blue. If you have some sort of an axe to grind - great. Grind away. Just be honest about why you're doing it, okay? 98.196.14.18 (talk) 21:49, 18 September 2012 (UTC)