Talk:St Albans School, Hertfordshire/Archive 1

March 2007 V2
Hello all, and thank you for contributing to this school site. I'm part of the WikiProject_Schools/Assessment team, and, as it has recently been editted, then I'm reviewing this page. I'm currently giving it a grade of start on the Wikipedia 1.0 Assessment Scale and an importance of Mid on this importance scale.

My reasoning is as follows: This article is more than a good start, but it lacks references. This is a very old school so Mid Victuallers 20:58, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

Notable Students
I note that Category:People_educated_at_St_Albans_School,_Hertfordshire has been removed from the page. Was this deliberate. or can we put it back? Pemboid (talk) 22:10, 21 June 2020 (UTC)

While I'm sure all students of St Albans School are notable, some will be more notable than others. I suggest that in order for someone to be listed in this section, there must be a separate page dedicated to them elsewhere in Wikipedia. In which case, the two most recent additions, Anthony Williams, musician and Chris Bhantoa, actor, while undoubtedly talented, would not yet qualify, and I propose to remove them for the time being. Any objections? Alf Boggis (talk) 11:35, 4 October 2005 (UTC)

Sensible suggestion. In the meantime has anybody any information about the latest addition (Bursack)- unknown to me? Presumably a 'spoof'; a current pupil is of that name, and should therefore be removed? It's a bit infantile and demeans the site and the value of Wikipedia. More names to follow!

Not sure how long ago the above was, but Bursack's not a current pupil. The new additions today (apart from 'joke' addition of Brennan?) should remain; they're all relatively well-known. Just because no-one on Wikipedia has got round to chronicling their success doesn't mean they should disappear! -crafty.

"However, over time the houses have lost their distinctions, and due to significant variation in the quality of the "housemasters" (the teacher in charge of each house) competition between the houses is now taken much less seriously." Doesn't strike me as very NPOV. Supergrunch 22:12, 28 February 2006 (UTC)
 * I agree. And BTW - why is Alistair Jolly notable outside the school? Does he have a particular claim to fame? Unless there are any objections I propose to remove his name. 195.217.52.130 20:02, 10 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Alistair Jolly's name has been removed: I have no quibbles. However, Marsh was for a long time headmaster (until the mid 1960s).  I am currently researching his dates.  As he has a House named after him, he must, by definition, be notable. I have therefore reinstated him.195.217.52.130 14:22, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
 * In the same list, "Bruce Balden", although perhaps worthy of note for his appearance on "Seven-up", is a member of staff, and was never a pupil. Also, unless anyone disagrees, I'll change the change the sentence that I thought wasn't NPOV. Supergrunch 17:24, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Yes, please amend the sentence you thought wasn't NPOV (2 weeks have elapsed). However, re Bruce Balden - he's not the only person on the list who wasn't a pupil (eg, Olympic athlete Tommy Hampson was a teacher).  It may be better to amend the heading from "Notable students" to "Notable persons" or even "Notable persons connected with the school". Any objections from anyone?195.217.52.130 16:11, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Second thoughts - how's about a separate "Notable members of staff" page? We can then move Balden, Hampson and Marsh with impunity.195.217.52.130 14:06, 17 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Sounds good, and btw I've changed that sentence.Supergrunch 19:03, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

Can anyone shed any light on who "Alistair Kieth Jolly" is (allegedly, "basically a legend"!!)? Some legend that doesn't appear on the School's own website; in any guise! Obviously it's pleasing when a teacher makes an impression on a pupil to such an extent that they want to see his name on Wikipedia. It seems a shame that his influence as an English teacher doesn't seem to stretch to the correct spelling of his name (I have grave doubts over its accuracy) or indeed the use of grammar ("English teacher with unique opinions, philosophical and political views. An astound comedian and entertainer."). I propose to delete his name if no objections are received.195.217.52.130 17:33, 12 May 2006 (UTC)


 * I removed Rolfe Kent as I can't find a source for his being an OA, and I can't remember him (he'd have been a year or at most two above me). Guy (Help!) 20:14, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

I have deleted Ernest Gellner from the list of notable alumni. The biographical note in the 1968 Pelican edition of "Words and Things" says he was at "St Albans County School", which became the Boys Grammar School and then Verulam; and indeed Verulam also claim him as a notable alumnus in their wikipedia article. It is surely unlikely that he was at SAS as well? Insomuch (talk) 16:15, 4 July 2010 (UTC)

I would like to strongly support the idea of removing all references to Notables (both staff and pupils) who do not appear in Wikipedia. "Well-known" is not the same as "notable". If you think someone is notable, then by all means write a wikipedia article on them, but frankly there are people on this list who don't even appear in a Google search. So I propose removing all notables within two weeks who don't satisfy this fairly simple test of notability. Pemboid (talk) 10:31, 24 May 2013 (UTC)


 * That discussion was three years ago, Pemboid - I suspect what you see is newly added entries since then. Go ahead and remove them where appropriate - more will be added on a monthly basis! Are you going to remove the 19th century redlinks as well? Or perhaps look into whether any of the redlinks can be made into bluelinks, first? --Demiurge1000 (talk) 20:32, 24 May 2013 (UTC)

Woollam playing fields
Are you quite, quite sure it's "Woollams Playing Fields"? I think it should be Woollam (as in Woollam Crescent), and sundry references to it on the Internet (not a good source, I know!) as Woollam Playing Fields in planning applications etc. At the very least, if it must have an "s", it should be Woollam's Playing Fields: after all, it was named after "Charles Woollam OA, who in the late 19th and early 20th centuries was a local philanthropist, a benefactor of both the School and the City of St Albans". See also "Miscellany" in St Albans. 195.217.52.130 21:53, 20 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Well I changed it to Woollams because that's what everyone refers to it as; whether or not there should be an apostrophe I don't know.Supergrunch 17:29, 21 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Well, I've changed it back to the Woollam Playing Fields because that's what it is called - in letters a foot high on signs on both sides of the entrance from Harpenden Road. This is an encylopedia, after all. 195.217.52.130 13:24, 3 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Fair enough; I can't argue with that. Supergrunch 13:23, 4 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Didn't there used to be a school swimming pool and some pitches off Belmont Hill, as well? Just zis Guy you know? 20:15, 13 May 2006 (UTC)
 * I don't think they're used any more. Supergrunch 20:39, 18 May 2006 (UTC)
 * The open air swimming pool and playing fields were sold off in the 1980s for a housing development: De Tany Court.

House System

 * The new house system was introduced in September 1996, not 1994. The suggestion that "these Houses were supposed to excel in the same areas as their namesakes" is a manifest nonsense.  Were those allocated to Hawking House supposed to excel in astrophysics or artificial voice production?  Those allocated to Renfrew showed no special skill in Archaeology.  Pupils were allocated randomly from the outset. It just happened that, for the first few years, Hampson won most of the sporting competitions, which probably had more to do with the personality of the then Housemaster than the innate talents of the pupils. I've made the changes. proviseur 09.55, 6 September 2006 (UTC)
 * I agree with the above. It is hard for me to believe that pupils were allocated to a house, presumably at age 11, and then expected to excel in its designated field throughout their time at the school. For that reason I have adjusted JzG's contribution to remove this statement. Alf Boggis 11:24, 6 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Thanks Alf. Nice to have corroboration.  However,it appears to be my corrected contribution you have adjusted, in the process of which you have uncorrected one of my corrections. The new House System was introduced in September 1996.  Trust me on this one.  I was there. I have changed it back again. Otherwise, I'm not unhappy with your pared-down para. proviseur 15.31, 6 September 2006.(UTC)
 * Are we sure the current house system dates from 1996? I have an email from Jane Galloway, Headmaster's PA, dated 13 Mar 2006 in response to an enquiry from me, which reads:
 * > The current House system came into use in September 1994. Previous House
 * > names were Abbey, Breakespeare, Debenham, Pemberton, Shirley and School
 * > House, which being the Boarding House, finished around 1955 when those boys
 * > in Boarding House were integrated into other Houses.
 * Surely this is cast-iron evidence for 1994?? And 1 year after Andrew Grant became HM (new broom and all that!), rather than 3 years. Also, my recollection is that there were only SIX houses, not seven. Anyone else with a better memory than me?195.217.52.130 13:09, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

In the period 1966 to 1973 there were six houses : Abbey, Breakespeare, Debenham, Pemberton, Shirley and Woollams. My elder brother who left in 1965 has no memory of Woollams so perhaps the change dates from then. All Harpenden boys were allocated to Shirley. Abbey was light blue, Breakspeare dark blue, Debenham red, Pemberton yellow, Shirley green and Woollams purple Daventryman 19:31, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

School motto
"Non nobis natis" literally means "Not for ourselves born":

- NON = not

- NOBIS (dative case, plural) = for us

- NATI (past participle, nominative plural of the deponent verb NASCOR) = born.

In passing, Geoffrey de Gorham's motto presumably derives from Cicero's: "Non nobis solum nati sumus" ("We are not born for ourselves alone"). I have changed the translation back to what I originally put, since "We do not live for ourselves" doesn't mean quite the same as "Born not for ourselves". 195.217.52.130 21:20, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

"Moderation is stable" or "Moderate things are stable" was what I was told while at the school. Daventryman 19:38, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

Public School
Surely it is misleading others by referring to St Alban's School as a Public School. When the term 'public school' is used, people are most likely to think of the original nine great public schools as laid out by the first Public Schools Act 1868. See the entry on Public Schools. 82.152.149.10 (talk) 03:27, 17 September 2009
 * Nonsense. Your argument doesn't agree with the article you cite. And your phrase "the original nine great public schools" acknowledges the existence of other public schools, undermining your argument. I'm reverting your edit. Bazj (talk) 08:41, 17 September 2009 (UTC)


 * CF: all the stuff on "Britain's oldest public school", we don't use this term in this sense traditionally in Scotland (although anglified people have picked it up). And they don't use it that way in Ireland traditionally (either part). It's only used that way in England, and possibly Wales.-MacRùsgail (talk) 15:20, 31 January 2015 (UTC)

Categories for discussion: nomination of various 'Former pupils' categories
A 'former pupils' category associated with this school has nominated for renaming, along with all similar categories. Comments are invited at the categories' entry on the Categories for discussion page. Thank you.Occuli (talk) 23:54, 17 August 2011 (UTC)

Edited for style
A lot of private school articles are full of gushing praise (probably written by the staff), but this one wasn't too bad. Have edited out a few bits of this nonsense.

I'm sure the school has numerous scandals and problems too (like every other place), but none of them appear in the article.-MacRùsgail (talk) 15:18, 31 January 2015 (UTC)

Co-education
One part of the text says that girls were admitted in 1991 (to sixth form), and another that they were admitted in the 1980s for the first time. Which is it? -MacRùsgail (talk) 15:24, 31 January 2015 (UTC)