Talk:St John the Evangelist's Church, Kirkham

Bells
I had a look at Mowbreck Hall and The Willows: A History of The Catholic Community in the Kirkham District of Lancashire by F. J. Singleton (1983). The opening of The Willows is covered in some detail on pages 32-38, but again it just says "said to be the first to ring out in a Catholic church since the Reformation." It does say that there was a detailed description of the church and its opening in the Preston Chronicle and Lancashire Advertiser for 26 April 1845 and "There is also a very readable account in Hewitson's Our Country Churches and Chapels (1872)". Singleton's book also says that the church is "the only church by the elder Pugin in the Fylde." Martinevans123 (talk) 12:58, 21 June 2014 (UTC)

Old news cuttings
There are images of old news cuttings about St John's on Wikimedia Commons:
 * --Storye book (talk) 13:13, 21 June 2014 (UTC)
 * I see that the second of those describes the "graceful spire" ... "pointing with silent finger unto heaven" and that is also mentions that the chancel was "ornamented with a tesselated pavement". Martinevans123 (talk) 13:43, 21 June 2014 (UTC)
 * I agree; the consecration article contains a gorgeous description of the interior - a great memento of the days of no TV and no common access to photography, when the reporter had to re-live it in full detail for those who could not be there - including us of course. And then there is the obligatory recounting of the interminable speeches by increasingly merry clergy and well-fed benefactors at the inevitable "cold collation" afterwards - excellent. I've read quite of few of these consecration reports now, and this is one of the better ones, but they all miss out the central thing, i.e. how exactly the buildings were consecrated. I know that in earlier days the bishop used to put chrism on a certain number of places around the interior and exterior walls (often 12 per building-circuit), intoning certain words as he did it, and sometimes consecration crosses marked those places. In 1965 at the consecration of the Church Army Chapel, Blackheath, my father asked Archbishop Ramsey how he did unusually-shaped modern chapels. Ramsey said that he usually did the four exterior corners of a traditional church, but regarding differently-shaped churches he just had to adapt. It is is an extraordinary experience for an architect to create a secular building which suddenly in one day moves into the otherworld. The details of this are missing from this article, as they are from most of our church articles, yet the practicalities of the rite by which this is achieved is a central issue for the building. I should stress that this comment is not about religion; it is about what the building was intended to be. --Storye book (talk) 16:28, 21 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Yes, that could be quite an intriguing question. Martinevans123 (talk) 16:35, 21 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Haha, yes. Although I was told that Ramsay's problem was that his ritual book told him to make circuits of the exterior of the building, and the 1965 chapel was attached at one end to another building. In the round church article, the gallery mostly shows stand-alone churches which would have been easier for an elderly bishop doing circuits. Those great, heavy copes and the mitres which would really show up if they fell to one side must have been a pain to yomp around outdoors in. Nevertheless they had two of those glittering personages at the consecration of this church. It must have been a grand sight. --Storye book (talk) 17:13, 21 June 2014 (UTC)
 * All of the denominations have their special rituals, I guess. Martinevans123 (talk) 17:23, 21 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Excellent! --Storye book (talk) 17:42, 21 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Excellent! --Storye book (talk) 17:42, 21 June 2014 (UTC)