Talk:StarCraft (video game)/Archive 3

Project Revolution
I would just like to say that a company (or group or something) called Snowflake Entertainment is making a WarCraft III total conversion mod that is, basically, a 3D version of StarCraft. It is not finished yet, and, unlike previous comparable efforts, Blizzard has not sued them for copyright infringement, probably because it requires StarCraft: Brood Wars and WarCraft III: Frozen Throne to play. It features an original storyline and maps, but the units, sounds, and maps are all StarCraft, except they are 3D and stuff.
 * See Sequel. Although it might qualify for its own section. Dizzydog11235 03:48, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

Name References
I have noticed that many of the games names (unique characters and hero characters) can be references to other games, sources (books), and even real life.

(Try pronouncing them) Samir Duran seems to be named after Samus Aran of the Metroid series. Gui Montag, the hero firebat, is named after Guy Montag, of the book, Fahrenheit 451. Gerard DuGalle, the UED Admiral, is named after Charles DuGalle, the French WWII General.

A number of the Zerg hero names are derived from Norse mythology and the like.

Edmund Duke's battlecruisers, Norad II and Norad III, are named after the North American Aerospace Command.

I wonder how many of these there are, and under what section they should be put under.

--68.176.139.148 02:29, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

All your base are belong to us
Was "All your base are belong to us" not a cheat in Starcraft? I think it was, it gave all your troopo's Invincibility. Should this not be mentioned, both here and there? Thanks, Dfrg.msc 08:57, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
 * If it belongs anywhere, it should be in the AYBABTU pop-culture section. --Mitaphane talk 17:30, 9 August 2006 (UTC)


 * No, it wasn't. AYBABTU became popular after Starcraft came out. ShardPhoenix 13:21, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

Inaccuracy on sale numbers
LA times says that http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/asia/la-fg-gamers21mar21,0,3029910.story?coll=la-home-headlines over 6 million of starcraft sold in South Korea alone, which is quite a different figure from the one the wikipedia page currently has...

Operation CWAL?
How come there is nothing mentioning them isant it noteable that such a group of people formed. from agentheartlesspain or something like that

They are mentioned, under "Development". Try reading articles through before you suggest changes that are already in place. :) -FrostyBytes 18:18, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

Starcraft Color mode
I wonder about how the graphics in SC work. I heard a rumour that it uses only 256 colors. But the graphics might look too good for that (transparent shadows and explosions...) Could anyone write something about the graphics, or explain it on this discussion page? Thanks 84.178.105.203 20:36, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

It runs in 256 colors and uses Smacker video technology. 24.146.28.214 03:49, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

It uses multiple palletes(of 256) to achieve more colors.

Influences
Does anyone have a source they can use in the influences section? For instance, if lines are repeated from Aliens, can a few be listed in a footnote? Marskell 12:56, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

With no inline citations the "Influences" section appears to be casual observations made by Wikipedia editors. However, it should be written & cited to illustrate it is true (cited to Blizzard creators, wirters, etc) or thought to be true (cited to the source that made the observations). This is a valuable section so it is copy&pasted here, please re-insert into the article when it can be verified. Maintain 20:10, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Influences

"StarCraft owes its basic concept to its predecessor Warcraft II, but draws heavily from characters and scenarios taken from popular science fiction books and movies and the Warhammer 40,000 table-top gaming series from Games Workshop. Elements of the Terran race in StarCraft are reminiscent of James Cameron's film Aliens. Terran Marines were clearly inspired by Aliens USCM Marines; both the Terran Marine and the Terran Dropship units in StarCraft directly quote characters from the movie. Terran buildings closely resemble the installations of the Hadley's Hope colony in Aliens, which is especially obvious in StarCraft cutscenes such as The Amerigo. The Terran Marines and Firebats are nearly identical in appearance to Warhammer 40,000's Space Marines. The Gauss Rifle used by the Terran Marines has an LED digital ammo display much like the M41A pulse rifle from Aliens. The Zerg and their infestation process resemble Aliens' Xenomorphs and Warhammer 40 000's Tyranids. The Protoss technology and story concept is very similar to those of the Eldar in Warhammer 40,000, while seeming somewhat cosmetically similar to the Tau. There are also noticeable similarities between the 'brain bug' of Starship Troopers, the norn queen and hivemind of the Tyranids and the Zerg Overmind."


 * Starcraft Legacy has a "units quote" website where they list the quotes of all SC units, and sometimes where (they think) the quote is from. Check under "Marine" and "Dropship". They mention Aliens. I don't know where the recurrent mention of WH 40K as a major influence comes from - to me all that is listed in the article is just similarities both SC and 40K share with other science fiction works. Phil s 22:07, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
 * That's interesting that you don't see WH40k's influence; the fact that Starcraft was the first major game I'd played on a computer (I was young) was what motivated me to pickup one of those dull WH40k computer games in the first place (Space Marines are cool no matter what the setting). Soon after, the similarities became clear, and because of the age, I knew who was copying (a harsh word, but it works) whom. I mean, barring other influences, such as Aliens or Starship Troopers, WH40k acts as a fully functional source for all the major ideas within Starcraft. The Zerg are almost carbon-copies of the Tyranids (even down to their underling's design), sharing both cosmetic and theme similarities. The protoss are, as stated before, a mix of Eldar and Tau, being cosmetically like the Tau (Blueish-skinned aliens with hoof-like feet, benevolent and such), while also sharing Eldar aspects (no pun intended), such as the Wraithlord/Dragoon, imperial, and religious themes. The Terrans shouldn't need much of an explanation, but I'll say that as a kid I enjoyed the bulky marine suit in SC and I enjoyed it even more when I saw the ridiculously exaggerated suit design of the WH40k Space Marines, I realized who wins the awesome-ness contest. Honestly though, the Terrans do seem to be the least influenced by Warhammer, except the obvious Vindicare Assassin/Ghost similarities. I didn't realize I wrote so much about this. Yikes.--72.148.136.13 12:37, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
 * That's mostly correct, but how can the Tau be the inspiration for the Protoss, when Starcraft was developed before Games Workshop came up with the Tau? Kasreyn 01:41, 26 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Hmm, you're right. I had known they were a new race, but given Games Workshop's age, I thought "New" meant around ten years old. Who knows, maybe this is a case of reverse influence! Either way, it could still be said that the Protoss are loosely based on the Eldar. Thanks for correcting me.
 * --72.148.136.13 05:52, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Maybe you're correct. To me it just seems like all that stuff you mentionned (bug-like aliens, noble psychic aliens, oversize mechanical armor) is present in so much science fiction material that one would be hard pressed to find a definitive source. I haven't done any research on this though. Would be interesting to track down the initial occurrences of all these sci-fi clichés. Phil s 23:12, 26 August 2006 (UTC)
 * I do agree with you on that, Phil. Even in fantastic science fiction stories, you'll find many of those cliché elements. Which isn't bad at all-- it depends on how it's developed. Which I would have to say Warhammer 40,000 does rather well. The table-top game never interested me; rather the story and setting is engaging both in the degree of detail and in the way it provides no sympathetic elements. The grim nature of that future is a welcome contrast to the relatively benign Star Trek universe. Anyways, as far as the initial instances of these cliché, I'll take a look. I'm sure Robert Heinlein had something to do with it, but even he may have been a second-hand thinker as well.
 * --72.148.136.13 05:52, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Something else to consider is the similarity between Warhammer fantasy and Warcraft, also. In a sense it establishes a pattern of imitation, although some will probably argue there are similarly cliche ideas there, too. MKV 04:03, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

One influence of the Starcraft characters and storyline was Starship Troopers. "Indeed, the developers of Starcraft at Blizzard Entertainment have openly stated that one of their inspirations was (mainly Verhoeven's) Starship Troopers. The 'Zergling' Zerg unit bears a close resemblance to the 'Bug Warrior' of Verhoeven's movie, and Zerg Cerebrates are sort of a Brain Bug equivalent. The similarities were more pronounced in an add-on pack to Starcraft, Starcraft: Brood War (the original contained Episodes 1-3 of the story, while the add-on contained episodes 4-6). A new faction was revealed when the lost colonies of the first game re-stablished contact with Earth: the United Earth Directorate, which acted much like the Terran Federation. UED officers dressed like the intelligence officers of Verhoeven's movie, and repeated semi-patriotic mantras such as 'Serve the Directorate! Serve Humanity!'. Most striking was a computer generated in-game movie that runs after successfully completing the UED campaign, which essentially copies the 'wartime news broadcasts' seen in Verhoeven's film.

On the other hand, Joe Haldeman's antiwar novel The Forever War is popularly thought to be a direct reply to Starship Troopers, though Haldeman has stated that it is rather a result of his personal experiences in the War in Vietnam War. (1998 SciFi.com interview (http://www.scifi.com/transcripts/1998/JoeHaldeman.html))

Harry Harrison's book Bill, the Galactic Hero is often considered a criticism of Heinlein's book, though his other parodies, like Star Smashers of the Galaxy Rangers (1973) also lampooned the military SF typical of Starship Troopers.

John Scalzi's first novel Old Man's War is an obvious homage to the work of Heinlein and especially to Starship Troopers. " http://www.infoshop.org/sf/index.php?title=Starship_Troopers   from there go to the Influences and Homages part.

List of links in todo box
Why is there a large list of links in the todo box on the talk page?-Localzuk (talk) 15:09, 2 September 2006 (UTC)


 * That was when I was working to greatly expand the references in the article to help keep its FA status. I may still add some more to further help the article. Judgesurreal777 17:38, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

Bad structure
Article is disorganized. Just look at the TOC, the game editor "StarEdit" is part of "Gameplay"? I don't think this article deserves WP:FA on the account of structure. I would tagged it Template:Bad structure, but want to discuss first. --Voidvector 05:21, 7 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Well, what category would you put it in? Judgesurreal777 05:26, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

Here i listed a list of topics covered in this article paragraph by paragraph. I made some comments. The "bullets" are actual headings, the "numbers" are topics. --Voidvector 06:27, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

I would direct you to almost any other Featured Video Game Article, and suggest you look there and reconsider your formatting. A lot of what you have highlighted is what I changed originally to keep this article at Featured Article level. Look at an article like Final Fantasy VII for inspiration. Judgesurreal777 13:54, 7 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Hmm, explain to me how does "rushing" fit in the same section as sales figures? --Voidvector 05:01, 10 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Easy, its part of the reception section, which includes both sales figures and positive and negative reactions. Judgesurreal777 21:38, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

Secret Zerg Song
I don't have the time to do it, but can someone make a wikiarticle on the "Secret Zerg Song?" Death Dark
 * Why not just find a reference and we'll add a sentence about it to this article? Probably not enough material for its own article. Judgesurreal777 14:58, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Serve the hive, feel the groove, I control the way you move! How 'u like my moves, Gangalot?
 * It's How'd you like my moves, Daggoth? - Daggoth being one of the Zerg Cerebrates. Grimmie 09:17, 13 April 2007 (UTC)
 * What are you talking about, the "zerg song"?
 * if you type "radio free zerg" while playing as zerg, you'll hear the song. but it's only on brood war, so it doesn't belong in this articleParsecboy 03:11, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

Ill put it on notes and trivia stuff..Lokinjo 22:47, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

Rushing
What you are adding has spelling mistakes and no reference, so I have been reverting it to keep unsourced info from getting into the article. Do you have a reference for it? Judgesurreal777 12:07, 15 September 2006 (UTC)
 * If you're talking about rushing as part of "criticism" of SC, then there is no reference. Blizzard can't take the blame for n00bs' inability to survive. -- Chodorkovskiy  (talk)  13:13, 15 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Have you ever actually played Starcraft Judgesurreal777 ? There is no "rushing" controversy. It is naturally a part of any RTS game, and not a problem, simply another tactic. If you've ever watched real South Korean SC replays, rushing is a fundamental part of the game, the first few minutes are vital to how you are going to develop. This does need to be sourced, because it is a by definition, part of RTS, as it is a completely valid tactic. --Rake 00:04, 16 September 2006 (UTC)
 * That section is about criticisms of the game, and that was a criticism at the time of the games release by a major video game reviewer. That section is not a forum to dispute or disprove the critics opinion, even if he is wrong. Judgesurreal777 01:34, 16 September 2006 (UTC)
 * So what? In the Doom (film) article, you have the following pieces of "criticism":


 * "The origin of the "demons" is no longer Hell"


 * "Iconic weaponry such as the BFG, chaingun and the chainsaw are not used much. "


 * "When it was first announced that Hell would not be featured, it was widely hoped that at least some alternative dimension, or even space aliens (such as in the novels) would have been featured. These hopes were dashed when it was revealed that the creatures were created from gene therapy."


 * Compare this with:


 * "allowing players to swiftly conquer one another by attacking first instead of allowing time to build up forces."


 * I actually heard the following phrase once:


 * "I don't play C&C games anymore, as there is only one tactic - rushing."


 * Should we put the "criticism" about rushing in all RTS articles? Let's face it, WC3 has rushing, ZH has it... Hell, even RA 1 through YR have it. Almost like an epidemic. This isn't about SC, it's about the n00bs. -- Chodorkovskiy  (talk)  07:08, 16 September 2006 (UTC)


 * I don't see a point to your argument... If critics mentioned the rushing as a negative characterstic, it is notable.  Remember that SC came out last millenium, so the rushign criticism is relevant as it may not have been as common then. &mdash; Scm83x hook 'em 07:15, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

Not really - Tiberium Sun also had rushing. My point is that such criticism, if at all, belongs in the real-time strategy article, as rushing is an integral part of any RTS.-- Chodorkovskiy  (talk)  07:21, 16 September 2006 (UTC)
 * This is probably a good idea. If you're going to mention it as a critisism, mention it in the RTS article. Whichever critic said that rushing was a "problem", obviously did not have much experience gaming (not that there were many RTS's in the day, but nonetheless, it's a crappy arguement). Bottom line is, no matter who said it, in today's RTS's, rushing is a tactic, not a problem. --Rake 20:13, 16 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Again, this article isn't a forum for criticizing critics of the game when it was released. Maybe to sophisticates and big fans of the game it seems silly, but oh well. Judgesurreal777 21:17, 16 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Here's a quote from the reference:


 * "Only a heavily defended base will survive an early rush of Terran Marines or Protoss Zealots. Starcraft has a built-in safeguard to discourage rushing, but it's one of the game's most problematic areas."


 * Makes me want to say "whatever". Think I'll follow my heart on this one... -- Chodorkovskiy  (talk)  21:40, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

If rushing was unethical, then the makers of Starcraft would not include the option in the game. They would make units obviously more expensive and with less speed. The same controversy swamps mkds with snaking and mph with shadow freezing. If you cant counter simple rushes, either get better or gtfo. ~Sage1989

Remove the opinionated 'rush' information in regards to Starcraft as this is merely an opinion of a lesser player in MY opinion. I personally invented the 'hyper zerg' rush in Broodwars and can tell you that this is one of the very strategies that leveled the playing field for Zerg early game. I would also like to see less emphasis on the Korean games and more-so on the America or North American gamers as I never had problems with Korean players in Tournaments, however I agree it never reached the popularity in North America that it did in Korea. I was in one of the first 'pay for prize' tournaments back in the day when such clans as Vorte(X) or [i]mmortal were the top clans.
 * I'm sorry but Starcraft did NOT suffer from rushing tactics being the be-all, end-all for strategies. Very elementary gameplay would prove to alleviate a rush from even 2 opponents. In team combat, this was combated through attacking an opponents base or critical resource line. There are countless strategies to counter and overcome an early rush. As far as being rushed on a 1v1 basis either in 1v1 or 2v2 or more games, you could easily combat a rush as 1. you should have the same amount of units 2. it's always harder to attack ones base than to defend ones base.

South Korea
I removed the references to South Korean players in the opening section of this article for one main reason...the "source" quoted for that original line links to a story about a South Korean man dying after playing Starcraft for 50 hours, whereas the original line in the article says something completely different. See the original link here http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,3-1729573,00.html.


 * The last sentence of the article discusses the popularity of Starcraft in South Korea....Judgesurreal777 17:38, 28 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Yeah, but how about next time READ the source that statement cites - it has nothing to do with the statement itself. Scott 110 03:00, 29 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Yes it does, it cites the popularity and how the game is played in South Korea.... That's the way a reference works. Judgesurreal777 03:08, 29 September 2006 (UTC)


 * From the source itself: "Computer games are enormously popular in South Korea and professional gamers can earn big money through sponsorships and television stations devoted to broadcasting matches." I'm sorry, but nowhere does it say STARCRAFT is specifically more popular than any other computer game in general. You perhaps are simply interpreting the statement for something other than it is.Scott 110 03:13, 29 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Oh, you could have said that in the first place :) We know they mean Starcraft, being the most popular game in South Korea....but we should get a more specific link. Please do not delete the text, maybe just put a citationneeded tag and I'll fill it in. Thanks! Judgesurreal777 03:39, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

"Cult-like following"
While I agree that Starcraft is clearly popular, the statement in the opening paragraph about the "cult-like following" is pure puffery and is not supported by the source cited. I have removed it since it violated both WP:NOR and WP:NPOV. Nandesuka 21:29, 9 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Just a general comment: please try to avoid using rollback or rollback-related functions during content disputes - they are meant to be used for vandalism. &mdash; Deckill e r 21:36, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

Noob?
"where noob players"

This appears in the introduction. Is the word "noob" to appear in an encyclopedia now?
 * You're right. Purge. -- Chodorkovskiy ( talk ) 04:06, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
 * But noob is a valid encyclopedia entry. 17:17, 3 December 2006 (UTC)


 * But a neologism with a limited use of the word (mainly just players, who use the "noob" variation of the word "newbie") —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Kessingler (talk • contribs) 00:29, 5 December 2006 (UTC).

Versions and sequels
''Blizzard had been working on a first-person shooter/third-person shooter, StarCraft: Ghost to be released in 2006. It was originally slated for release in late 2003 on console systems only, but the company that wasthe license was scrapped.''

I would've changed this but I have no idea what it means. Someone who knows should fix it. --Wafulz 05:18, 25 October 2006 (UTC)


 * Okay, it now says It was originally slated for release in late 2003 on console systems only, but the company that had the license was scrapped. Did the company go under? Or was the license killed. --Wafulz 22:09, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

Starcraft Ghost was cancelled by Blizzard.

New Category: High Honor Games
I'm putting in question the newly added category, 1990s High Honor Video Games. Seems a little too POV for me, even if it has elegibility criteria. That and it's category text isn't as well-written as I'd like it to be. Please add to the discussion at WP:CFD--Htmlism 01:42, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Biblical References
Should something be added about all the Biblical references in StarCraft? (Most notably, Tassadar dying for his people, a Protoss city named Antioch and Kerrigan's "fall" to the Zerg, etc.)


 * Please, claim your comments. Care to elaborate on what you mean and how it specifically relates to the Bible? If it's substantial enough, we can put it in. --Htmlism 02:53, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Its possible thats its wider influence from western culture.Diablo never references Christianity directly but game is full of religious motives.

Relationship to WarHammer?
I think it would be valuable to include a section about the obvious influence of WarHammer: 40k on StarCraft. I was moderately suprised not to see something on it.

Mikepwnz 09:15, 18 December 2006 (UTC)


 * That's like saying we should mention Doom/Wolfenstein in every FPS article. --Voidvector 10:03, 18 December 2006 (UTC)


 * It would be more akin to mentioning WarCraft II in an article about FreeCraft. Plus, it's verifiable -- you don't have to search very hard to find someone saying something like "The similarities between the StarCraft and Warhammer universes are uncanny even if one began as a tabletop war game in 1987." or "No sooner had we had our first taste of Terran vs Zerg vs Protoss action, than longtime fans of the Warhammer 40,000 series of tabletop games began to argue that the rich back story and universe of Blizzard's hit RTS lacked originality." (http://pc.ign.com/articles/533/533146p1.html) It's one of the cheif criticisms of the game, and the similarities are apparent to anybody familiar with both franchises. Mikepwnz 00:32, 19 December 2006 (UTC)


 * There is the No original research policy, so you need to back up the claims with reputable references. (e.g. If you can find Blizzard devs/writers commenting on Warhammer 40k, you are golden.) Also, how this subject would fit into this article is not my knowledge. Other editors might know better. --Voidvector 01:33, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

I think the way that the plot is advanced is very similar to that of Warhammer Dark Omen. Samx 16:57, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

Image in the Plot section
Image in the Plot section is from the expansion pack Brood War not the main game. It should be replaced with a more approriate image. --Mika1h 22:07, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

Equality among race articles
i posted a comment about this in the zerg talk page, but i have recieved no responce there, so i thought i might write something here

i know that all the unit articles have been removed, and this is something i agree with, what i don't argee with is the short changing of the zerg article, or the favitorism bestowed on the terran and protoss articles. why is it that the units section of the zerg page, not individual articals just their section on the page, has been removed and all attempts at bringing the zerg page to a state of equality with the protoss and terran pages are imidiatly quashed, while the other race pages are allowed to retain their units section. these sections have a very game guide feel to them and i for one cannot see why they remain on those pages when the zerg unit section does not. by allowing these two pages to have the mentioned sections but not allowing the zerg page to have such makes the zerg page seem unfinished and shabby. i move for the removale of those unit sections or for the readdition of the zerg unit section, with the greater emphasis on the removale of said sections.

i will post a similar commant on the terran and protoss pages --Manwithbrisk 20:08, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

I would be glad to see them on all of the "races" pages, but if they can't be because of the anti-guide thing maybe they could be moved to another page and linked to from the "races" pages. I beleive I have already recommended it on all of those pages. --63.65.45.102 19:59, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

Fast Maps
No mention of fast maps in Multiplayer which are user created maps that make up the majority of non ladder multiplayer games. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 67.180.147.127 (talk) 03:58, 21 January 2007 (UTC).

Mention of bots wrong/No mention of Illegal accounts or money maps
The mention of "bots" in the article is wrong. Bots are 3rd party programs that are used to log into battle.net and do functions other then gaining an unfair advantage in the game. Bots are primaraly used to chat on or hold "ops" (The ability to ban/kick from a channel). Some bots are also used to "load" channels with the objective to spam the channel as some sort of an attack. The term used for cheating programs on battle.net is simply refered as "hacks". Also, there is no mention of Illegal accounts (old accounts with illegal charecters in them that were allowed to be made before one of the patches). For example a name with the +,=,{,},!,@,~,`,',:,;,^,&,$,| charecters would be an "illegal" account (often called "Illys"). The accounts with the symbols still allowed that are infront of the username would be an "Illy" too. If the symbols are repeted it would also make it an "Illy". There is no reference to "money maps" either. "Money maps" are maps that were created using a 3rd party program to make the minerals/gas closer to the starting building in order to gather the money more quickly. The minerals/gas in these maps are also unlimited so that you can never run out of them. The minerals are "stacked" so that one several minerals are on top of each other so that it looks like there is only one but multiple gathering units can mine from that one area. These maps are one of the most widely used maps in the game.

68.238.135.138 11:09, 27 January 2007 (UTC)NotAvailable