Talk:Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic (video game)/Archive 1

Spoilers
There are some pretty serious spoilers in this article without any warning. I don't know how these things are handled, but I think it should be addressed.


 * Indeed SwedishPsycho (talk) 01:41, 16 June 2008 (UTC)


 * See WP:SPOILER. --EEMIV (talk) 02:00, 16 June 2008 (UTC)


 * I had never played this game before, but I found it yesterday at a used game store for 3 bucks. I just started playing and I wanted to see what the critical reaction was (you know, to see if my investment was worth it the price), thinking all the spoilers would be in the plot description. There is actually a huge spoiler right there in the "Critical reception" section. Oh well. :-( Since Wikipedia doesn't mark spoilers there seems to be no way to handle this particular case. --Mosquitopsu (talk) 17:59, 14 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Its an encyclopedia, not a game review site. You don't like it, don't look it up; play the game first. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.76.60.163 (talk) 05:18, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

I went ahead and removed the spoiler from the critical reception section. I just changed the details of the spoiler to "the plot twist". LocrialTheSequel (talk) 19:31, 21 July 2008 (UTC)


 * In my opinion that is still too much. Tigerthink (talk) 20:55, 26 August 2009 (UTC)
 * As noted above, Wikipedia has no policy excluding spoilers. "Plot twist" is about as innocuous as you can reasonably expect.
 * That said, it's important to emphasize that just because there's no no-spoilers policy doesn't mean we have to go out of our way to insert them into articles. I think the current Story section covers all the important points without going into (incidentally spoileriffic) detail. YLee (talk) 21:01, 26 August 2009 (UTC)


 * I agree that the addition of spoilers should be permitted though not excessive, but I'm not sure the plot synopsis is adequate in its current state. If you look at featured articles like Half-Life 2, BioShock and The Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind, they very definitely outline the beginning, middle and end of the plots. I think descriptions of the searches for each Star Map are unnecessary - it's only necessary to say that the player spends a great deal of the game searching for them. However, critical details such as the player's true identity, Bastila's capture and turn to the Dark Side and their possible romance need to be described. It is slightly more complicated in our case as there are multiple endings, but nevertheless I think these plot-critical points deserve a mention. Una LagunaTalk 19:06, 27 August 2009 (UTC)


 * There is currently no information at all about the ending of the game, that should be added. As observed above, this is an encyclopedia, there is no such thing as a spoiler here, wikipedia has a clear policy on that.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.10.170.59 (talk) 22:05, 14 September 2010 (UTC)

KotOR III
"A third game is projected by Obsidian."

Is there a source for this? I've recently contacted Obsidian about a new KotOR sequel and they stated that no plans have been made yet regarding KotOR III at all. HK51 17:38, 28 May 2006 (UTC)


 * You're right. KOTORIII is only speculation. IGN is of the opinion that there will be one, but Obsidian and Lucasarts remain silent. I'll remove that. – Xolatron 18:23, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

Cannon?
I've got a friend who says that KOTOR is not cannon to the movies OR the expanded universe. I'm not sure if that is true and if someone could clarify and (if it is not cannon) make a note of that on the article, that would be grand.-norton112200


 * The KOTOR storyline is canon to the expanded universe (EU), but the game mechanics (d20 - systems for determining hits, etcetera) are not. And in the canon version of the storyline, Revan went to the light side and was male. Generally these Star Wars articles don't have notes about canon, but perhaps a system should be started to add a small note somewhere on the page. – Xolatron 19:47, 24 Telona 2006 (25 May)


 * It's canon. You're is probably one of those people that can't expand it's horizon to EU... The Wretched 02:42, 10 July 2006 (UTC)


 * The official website treats it as canon although it takes no preference to any of the alternative endings that can happen in the game. Emperor001 22:18, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

When the game first came out there was questioning as to how canon it was, moot point now due to retcons.--Darthbalmung 01:47, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

Wait, I thought that Revan went darkside. Comments in game suggest this. Also Atton states that Revan was female first, you have to tell him that Revan was male. Was it just loading my KOTOR 1 data and using it? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.120.253.173 (talk) 22:22, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

pictures
i've got countless pictures of KotOR which i can contribute. 68.192.172.119 19:37, 25 Aug 2004 (UTC) <-twas me. Lockeownzj00 19:38, 25 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Modding Community
There has been a modding community for KOTOR I and II for some time. Its called Holowan Laboratories should I create a section on this article for it? or make a entire article for it? -- User:Psi edit

Why not add a link?

Bugs (PC Version)
I'm starting a section on bugs because, as excellent a game as KotOR is, it still has its bugs...at least, the PC version does, I'm not sure about the XBox version. Any info on bugs from the X-Box version would be highly appreciated. Ynos 02:38, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC)

bugs

A bug I've encountered mulitple times is where the screen goes black, but I can still here my character move around. I use an x box.

In my PC version of KOTOR, the game would not load from desktop. You would hit "play" on the menu, the Ebon Hawk would appear, but nothing would happen. After several minutes a message would appear reading that the machine couldn't authenticate the disk in time. This problem seems to happen when you have another Lucasart game installed, and all of the Lucasart games I have played do the same thing.

207.160.168.243 18:47, 31 July 2007 (UTC)Well, thats Actually a hardware problem. Some disk drives have trouble with Lucas Arts games because of the copyright codes they put in the cd to protect from burning interfere with the burning capabilities of the disk drive

There are also a few major issues with Windows Vista, especially on machines running an ATI video card. This could also be considered a hardware issue, though since it is only with that one game, "hardware issue" doesn't quite tell the story. The most common of these is a launch-error that makes the game fail to even launch. The only true fix for this issue is to play it on XP. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.184.167.3 (talk) 19:16, 6 March 2009 (UTC)

Gameplay
Perhaps somebody should write about gameplay? Hey, there's a thought. I might do it eventually. Also, the bugs section is really unnecessary. Some guy 07:08, 30 October 2005 (UTC)


 * I agree. It should mention what the game mechanics are like.(Like the combat system)

Flaming Toad 22:59, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

Quote
Does anyone know where, or even whether, this quote from Grey Jedi is taken:
 * "They are the embodiment of Darth Revan's quote from Knights of the Old Republic: "The best Jedi are the ones who are still human.""
 * --Maru (talk) Contribs 22:12, 31 October 2005 (UTC)


 * I've played through the game several times and don't recall that quote. It's possible I missed something I guess. Some guy 00:04, 9 January 2006 (UTC)


 * I commented on this on the Grey Jedi page (which I think a significant amount of is bogus anyways - 90% of the text was anon created and makes little sense to me). I've played through the games many times (although I have personally only playe as a light-sider, I've seen the dark side played) and I can be fairly certain that it wasn't in KOTOR I. Kreia might have said something similar in KOTOR II, but I wouldn't trust her - she is definitely NOT NPOV, and she has so many unlockable dialogs that I have a hard time getting to because of my low influence with her. Grey Jedi needs serious cleaning up and standardization though (which I will do - based on KOTOR, if anyone will give me the okay, because it would destroy a lot of the currently existing text). -Xol 03:00, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

Revamp?
Does anyone else think this article could use some serious attention? It just seems to be a laundry list of random facts about the game, none of which would be particularly useful for anyone trying to learn about it that hasn't played it already. I realize there are articles about all the characters and locations, but I think this could use a treatment similar to what's going on with the Final Fantasy games - gameplay information and summaries of the story and characters (with links to the main articles for each, of course). Maybe I'm the only person who noticed this and I'm just being annoying, but compared to all the Final Fantasy games, this seems kind of lacking. Adamantium Guy 06:41, 17 January 2006 (UTC)


 * No, this article and the KOTOR 2 page both need major revamps or cleanups. The problem is over time, as newbies and anon. users keep adding in their annoying data, no one's been patrolling to maintain some level of readability.  That is what is causing this "random" factor feel to them.  If you're up to do a re-write, then go for it.  --LifeStar 21:04, 17 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Alright, cool. I'll start working on a rewrite towards the end of this week when my exams end. I don't know how much of the game I'll be able to cover right from the start, but hopefully it'll be a good base for others to work off. Adamantium Guy 04:18, 18 January 2006 (UTC)


 * I can do some revamping - I love this game, and have played it many times. -Xol 03:03, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

The 'Voice Acting' section dosn't even mention the man who voiced Calo Nord. The same guy narrates quite a lot of programs on the 'History' channel too, including 'Modern Marvels'. Paco 21:40, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

I think someone ruined the plot summary.. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.108.26.205 (talk) 17:05, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

Jolee Bindo =Mace windu (possible)
Do you think its possible that Jolee Bindd is Mace windu's ansector (since kotor is four thousand years before the first movie)?

Dumoren 05:29, 20 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Very doubtful; names are referenced directly (like the Organa family), and that is too much speculation for an article. -Xol 03:02, 25 January 2006 (UTC)


 * I'd have to agree... just because Jolee is bald and black doesn't mean he's Windu's great great great great great great great great... you get the idea.


 * I doubt it. His family name isn't Windu.


 * It's highly unlikely. According to Shatterpoint, Mace is from a backwater planet whose native population is entirely force-sensetitive. The most common explanation for this is that they're all descended from a ship of Jedi that crashed during the Great Sith War, which is set before the game. Stilgar135 23:54, 29 September 2006 (UTC)


 * just as likely as it is everyone on earth is related to Noah of Noah's ark --Ditre 06:40, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

I'm not usually the racism finger-pointer, but suggesting that ALL black people are related is fucking racist. -76.16.71.212 (talk) 05:08, 18 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Technically they are, and so is everyone else. We all came from a group of evolved apes after all. But I do agree that that was just a stupidly racist observation. 78.33.14.133 (talk) 11:11, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

KoToR III Pushed Back
"As of August 13, 2004, Kotor III has been stalled for production. "

If KoToR III has not been acknowledged as existing in any way whatsoever, as stated on the main KoToR page, then how could it be stalled for production? If I'm missing something just pop this line back in, it was at the end of the sequels section, but it and the proceeding sentence seem to be in direct contradiction. JBK405 23:03, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

NOTICE
THIS IS A DISCUSSION PAGE FOR THE KOTOR 2 ONE ARTICLE, NOT THE GAME OR KOTOR III. PLEASE DIRECT THOSE TYPES OF COMMENTS TO INSTANT MESSENGER, EMAIL, OR A GAME FORUM. THANK YOU. :)  Darthgriz 9  8  00:46, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

Sorry to contradict, but this is a discussion page for the KOTOR ONE article, two's at a different page (Petulant, I know, but I've always been a stickler for accuracy). JBK405 04:29, 21 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Whoops, how did I mix that up?  Darth griz 98 02:53, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

voice actor of Revan - Rino Romano
was there even a voice for Darth Revan at all in the game? --Ditre 03:02, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
 * He does make random grunting noises, small talk during battle and when he is selected.  Darth  griz 98 02:51, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

Units sold/Earned revenue
The page lists the various awards that the game has won, and that it is an X-Box Platinum Hit (Meaning it's sold over 1 million copies), but it doesn't give the actual number of units sold, or the amount of money earned. Not vital to the article, I know, and I wouldn't expect more than just a single sentence if it were to be included, but I feel that related information should be included somewhere; the units sold/money earned gives a better indicator of public opinion than critial awards, and simply "more than 1 million" doesn't really help. 1.1 million is more than 1 million, but so is 300 million, and there's a big difference between the two (No, I don't think the game sold anywhere close to 300 million, I was exagerating to prove a point). Does anybody know how well the game sold? JBK405 19:11, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

According to Bioware it has sold 3 million copies to date. 85.211.248.25 22:14, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

New look
I have been working on this article in my user space sandbox for some time now and thought now was a good time to move it to article space. I prosified the critical acclaim section, fixed up a lot of the articles lengthy and unnecessary parts, and added real citations. It still needs a lot of work and a lot more citations, but maybe we can get it to GA someday soon.  Darth griz 98 01:14, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

Sequel section - rumoured Kotor MMO
Major problems with this section. The Kotor MMO rumour dates from when Bioware announced they had set up a studio in Austin Texas (press release in March 2006.) Various other rumours have appeared since then but absolutely nothing confirmed. The entire section is rumour and speculation with no sources.

Also, it has been known since March 2006 that Rich Vogel, Gordon Walton and James Ohlen are the three key people at the studio. Vogel was the main Producer on SWG, he had nothing to do with it creatively, Raph Koster was the main creative lead. Also, Vogel/Walton/Ohlen did an interview with Games for Windows magazine at the end of 2006, the game is going to be completely different from SWG (both pre and post NGE.) Bioware want to bring what they are famous for in single-player games to the MMO world, story-driven gaming (the complete opposite of the 'sandbox' style of SWG.)

I suggest the entire MMO rumour section be deleted until we get official confirmation on the project one way or the other.85.211.248.25 12:22, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

The 'SOE losing the license' story is an old rumour, quickly debunked at the time (March 2006) by both LucasArts and SOE representatives. 85.211.248.25 22:29, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

Pazaak
Pazaak is redirected to the KOTOR page but nothing about it is mentioned in the page should I add a small section explaining that


 * Pazaak is a mini-game involving cards
 * It is similar to blackjack —Preceding unsigned comment added by Silent Elf (talk • contribs) 01:21, 30 October 2007 (UTC)


 * A sentence about the minigames might be appropriate, but more than that about this minor part of the game isn't necessary. The bit about "being similar to blackjack" is WP:OR. --EEMeltonIV 01:25, 30 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Actually I might just get an admin to remove the Pazaak redirect altogether that might be a better option --Silent Elf 00:15, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

Changed my mind again and decided to add in the Pazaak section I didn't add in the other mini-games because I never actually played KOTOR and don't know about the other mini-games. I added in the blackjack reference because without it anyone new to KOTOR would make little sense of what Pazaak is without it sorry I just couldn't think of a better way to add it in of course feel free to edit/delete it if you think it mangles the page a bit. --Silent Elf 01:34, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

Release date of PC version.
Near the top of the article it gives a release date for the PC version, and later in the same paragraph contradicts it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tzvi Katowitz (talk • contribs) 17:17, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

If your referring to the release date which I'm thinking of, there are different known release dates for different regions and locations for different versions ,Windows may be released later in the year while the xbox version is released early. Is this what's confusing you SKYNET X1000 19:47, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

Certain pages i monitor more closely, and i sometimes don't often go to this article, i will respond more quickly on my user talk page. SKYNET X1000 13:00, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

Redirect
How does Starcraft's Starforge redirect to here? Please fix this 68.228.14.91 (talk) 22:57, 11 April 2008 (UTC)


 * A "Starforge" also appears in KotOR. If you think a disambiguation page would be more appropriate, then feel free to make one. --EEMIV (talk) 04:47, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

To be fair, Starcraft predates KotOR by a very, very long time. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.16.71.212 (talk) 05:13, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

KOTOR II Picture
Should there really be a picture from the sequel on here? —Preceding unsigned comment added by ChuckCoke (talk • contribs) 21:24, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

Admiral Karath
Anyone else find it odd that this link redirects to the page it's on?68.187.137.38 (talk) 09:10, 19 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Fixed Texcarson (talk) 22:43, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

His/Her
Why does the plot section only say his when referring to Revan? Since the summary gives both the light and dark side endings, shouldn't Revan be referred to as he/she since the player can choose Revan's gender? I once made this change, but it was reverted back. Emperor001 (talk) 23:39, 19 December 2008 (UTC)
 * In canon, Revan is light side and male. JAF1970 (talk) 18:52, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

Crapload of new info
GameTrailers JAF1970 (talk) 18:53, 7 April 2009 (UTC)
 * It's not a crapload, and it's old news anyway. Texcarson (talk) 20:05, 4 July 2009 (UTC)

Optional Characters
"Eventually joining the main character's quest are the Jedi Bastila Shan and Juhani" is not strictly true. If the player is playing pure dark side, they kill Juhani, so she does not join the player's party. HK-47 is also optional, as he must be purchased. These are not even hinted at in the page. I'm not entirely sure quite how to go about including them. Perhaps this?

''Eventually joining the main character's quest are the Jedi Sentinal Bastila Shan, Grey Jedi Jolee Bindo, veteran Republic pilot Carth Onasi, Mandalorian mercenary Canderous Ordo, the Twi'lek teenager Mission Vao and her Wookiee companion, Zaalbar and utility droid T3-M4. As well as these, the game also features two optional characters that may also be added to the party - the Jedi Guardian Juhani and the Assassin Droid HK-47 - each of which must be earned by performing certain actions within the game. Antagonists include bounty hunter Calo Nord, crime boss Davik Kang, Sith Admiral Saul Karath, Sith Master Uthar Wynn, Sith apprentice Darth Bandon and Darth Malak.''

Korlus (talk) 22:42, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

Major expansion/improvement
Given that there is currently no major push to improve the quality of this article, and that I've finished doing most of the work on my previous project, The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King (video game), I've decided to look at improving this article to a similar standard. I'll be doing this in my sandbox. Currently there's quite a bit of good content; however, I'm looking to expand the Reception section (to give some of the specific praises and criticisms the game had, in addition to the awards it won), write a section detailing the game's development, expand and source the Gameplay section, and expand the synopsis and other details in the Story section. The current screenshot needs to be converted to a JPG and severely reduced in size, and in time more screenshots will be needed to illustrate the various aspects of the game and the plot. Una LagunaTalk 20:22, 5 July 2009 (UTC)


 * I've made a lot of progress; however things have been going slowly due to other commitments outside the 'pedia. Una LagunaTalk 07:15, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

"intellectual properties"?
There's a sentence in the first paragaph: The sequel, Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic II The Sith Lords, was developed by Obsidian Entertainment at BioWare's suggestion as BioWare wanted to focus on their own intellectual properties. Looking past the controversies with the term intellectual property, I don't even know what it's supposed to mean. Was BioWare focusing on some other projects? Were they engaged in a law suit? 217.153.90.242 (talk) 23:24, 19 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Kinda old, but the intellectual property (IP) in this instance was Star Wars, which is owned by Lucasfilm and can be used by all LF subsidiaries, such as Lucasbooks, Lucasarts, etc. Bioware created the game engine and wrote the story, but the trademarks for all the Star Wars storylines, characters, weapons, ships, and such is all owned by Lucasfilm. Bioware, rather than work on a sequel for a game they didn't own the IP of, decided to create their own IP: Jade Empire. Sorta like how with Halo, originally Bungie was the owner of the IP. Then Microsoft got it when Bungie split with Microsoft and now 343 Industries deals with the Halo IP, even though Bungie made 4 of the 5 Halo games. Anakinjmt (talk) 00:23, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

Gender redux
I agree that Revan is canonically male, and also that it needs a citation. Wookieepedia points toward a defunct forum post (perhaps wayback has it?) where Jason Lee(?) cleared this up. Wikipedia, though, probably needs more than a forum post. However, considering that there's a Revan book out, a MMORPG that alludes to Revan, and a Revan toy, finding a concrete assertion of gender shouldn't be too hard. But, please, User:Markeer and User:Some guy, you're both experienced-enough editors to know that edit summaries passing in the night isn't the way to address this. --EEMIV (talk) 02:53, 17 January 2012 (UTC)
 * I just added a valid source. There are three sources at the Wookiepedia article that would probably be good, but I don't have access to them to verify, so I used the source from the Wikipedia article on Revan. Some guy (talk) 02:59, 17 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Indeed. That reference was added to the Revan article by one of my favorite editors ;-). --EEMIV (talk) 03:18, 17 January 2012 (UTC)
 * I am confused as to why you even bothered with starting this talk section when you already knew a source, even if you missed I had added it. Some guy (talk) 03:23, 17 January 2012 (UTC)
 * For one thing, the bigger issue is the failure to engage beyond edit summaries; rather than reverting back and forth, WP:BRD is best practice. And, beyond that, I added the reference to Revan over three years ago and haven't touched it much sense, beyond vandalism reversion; I didn't recognize the citation until I recognized the author's name. --EEMIV (talk) 02:37, 18 January 2012 (UTC)
 * It didn't strike me as a big enough issue to start a talk section, especially with how easily it was resolved. I probably would have been unnecessarily critical to Markeer anyway. Some guy (talk) 06:03, 19 January 2012 (UTC)

All hail Lord Revan!
I recognized if you finish the game on the dark side then there is a scene where Revan comes and all of his empire are shouting "All hail Lord Revan!". Isn't that similar to the Nazi salute when Adolf Hitler comes and his empire is shouting "Heil Hitler"? I think we should mention that in the main article. Morgan Katarn (talk) 11:12, 10 June 2012 (UTC)
 * This would be considered original research and not signficant in any case. Some guy (talk) 06:21, 11 June 2012 (UTC)

Not d20 - WotC had nothing to do with it
Although it very much looks like the d20 Star Wars PnP game, and it used the Aurora (Neverwinter Nights 1) engine, I believe Lucas Arts and Bioware licensed a different system. You'll note there's no mention of WotC in the box or manual. I think this part of the article needs to be updated, especially since no citation is given. I am tracking down the system they actually licensed - its relatively obscure. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 73.48.170.188 (talk) 20:25, 5 November 2015 (UTC)