Talk:Starvation response

Limiting scope
Most of the issues below were fixed by limiting the scope of the article. 75.92.165.67 (talk) 08:46, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

Undue weight
The criticism section takes up 2/3rds of this article: this is certainly undue weight and needs to be rectified, preferably by expanding the rest of the article or recharacterizing this subject as a fringe hypothesis such as flat earth. Skomorokh 18:31, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

More importantly, this article is about the same thing as the existing article famine response. Friday (talk) 18:54, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

Needs to be rewritten
Hawkins et al, Ketone-Body utilization by Adult and Scukling Rat Brain in vivo, Biochem. J. 122, pp13-18(1971), puts the lie to the notion that humans are unique in not requiring glucose ingestion to fuel the brain. Indeed, rat liver also carries out gluconeogenesis via phosphoenolpyruvate carboxykinase (PEPCK), See Hebda & Nowak, JBC Vol. 257, 5503, (1982). This article misinforms. Ppetrel (talk) 04:51, 7 May 2015 (UTC) It needs to be rewritten. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ppetrel (talk • contribs) 04:46, 7 May 2015 (UTC) Whoever wrote this article is retarded. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 141.161.196.203 (talk) 14:50, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

I also think that the article should be rewritten. More importantly (regarding the quality of the article at least) it seems that this particular article is a bit contradictory. The first paragraph states that the body conserves fat resources by eating lean tissue and muscle, yet it states in the second paragraph that in order to conserve muscle and other tissues it consumes the fat reserves first. However I feel that we should just eliminate this whole section together and merge it with famine response. Chrisrhode (talk) 17:44, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

Resistance training (such as weight lifting) can also prevent the loss of muscle mass while a person is caloric restricted. Who works out while on a calorie restricted diet? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.53.75.161 (talk) 04:09, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

MERGE Famine response into this article
I concur that Famine response should be merged with this article. They are about the same subject. Starvation mode is the better title as with "Famine response" many unrelated items come up in searches. 220.101 talk\Contribs 08:15, 15 September 2010 (UTC)

Done D O N D E groovily   Talk to me  05:26, 17 January 2011 (UTC)

Definitely needs to be rewritten
This article is factually false in several ways and is in desperate need to be re written.

1. The body's primary fuel source is not even cited. ATP. This is the primary fuel source of the body for most functions and is made primarily from digested fats. Carbohydrates can be used as fuel but are non essential.

2. The body converting fat for fuel is called ketosis and is in no way starvation!!. Every body does this daily, especially during sleep.

3. Ketoacidosis can be called starvation mode because it is the body's conversion of body parts (muscle, bones, organs, etc) for fuel when not enough proteins and fats are eaten. It is also caused when type1 diabetes causes an insulin deficit.

Somebody please rewrite this terrible definition!! I don't have time to. — Preceding unsigned comment added by John Cather (talk • contribs) 02:35, 9 June 2011 (UTC) 1. ATP is made in the CELL, your body doesn't make ATP and transport it to the cells. This article does mention how cells get the energy necessary to live (e.g. Make ATP)

2. Sleeping includes not eating for up to ten hours, do that during the day and you'd start getting hungry.

3. The final stage of starvation is not the only stage, if the article would only talk about the ULTIMATE starvation response, then it would mention cardiac arrest and organ failure. In order to understand the response to starvation (not eating), one must understand it at increasing durations of time.

I hope you weren't referring to the article I just read, why is it still flagged? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.108.2.109 (talk) 19:14, 4 December 2012 (UTC)

From medical boichem we learned the initial 8-14 hours of glucose supply without food intake is generated by the glycogen stores in the liver through glycogenolysis. Glycogen stores in the muscle is mostly reserved for gluconeogenesis for itself as it does not have a bidirectional transporter, nor does it have the liver exclusive Glucose-6-phosphatase to remove the phosphate so that it can even exit the muscle cell so it does not contribute directly to stabilizing blood glucose. After liver glycogen is used up there is a period of up to 24 hours where there is increased protein breakdown in the muscles to release amino acids which can be converted to glucose in the liver. There is also a slower response by the adipocytes (fat cells) to increase fatty acid synthesis from it's stored triglycerides so the liver can also use it to produce ketone bodies which is an alternate form of energy substrates (although only some tissues such as cardiomyocytes and neurons can use them). Once starvation continues beyond 3 days, protein breakdown decreases at THIS point to conserve further structural degradation. The brain also switches from using glucose to ketones for much of it's energy generation and many other organs begins to adapt to lowering its energy requirements, albeit with detrimental consequences. Eventually protein breakdown will occur towards terminal starvation and organ systems will begin to shutdown while trying to maintain critical functions such as neural and cardiorespiratory functions till the very last point.66.243.219.227 (talk) 16:01, 14 December 2012 (UTC)

6 or 24 hours???
An ip-editor changed the sentence: "The body's glycogen reserve is enough to provide glucose for about 6 hours" into 24 hours. I cannot find a reliable source for either 6 or 24 hours and I don't know which one is correct. Please help to make sure we mention the correct number of hours! Lova Falk    talk   09:53, 6 July 2013 (UTC)

Psychological Response?
Shouldn't there be some sort of analysis of the psychological response people undergo when in a starvation/semi-starvation state? I know there was some discussion of it with the Minnesota Starvation Study (links below). Every person had irritability, felt cold, lost sexual appetite, became preoccupied with food... and other symptoms that seem like they should belong in an article on starvation response. http://www.psychosomaticmedicine.org/content/10/1/31.full.pdf (analysis of case studies from the starvation study) http://jn.nutrition.org/content/135/6/1347.full (the starvation study itself)173.13.237.18 (talk) 21:22, 5 November 2013 (UTC)

Timeline
There are two paragraphs called "timeline" in this article and they don't exactly say the same. Additionally, there might not be enough references. Does anyone have reliable sources and can resolve the differences and merge the two paragraphs? --Salanola Ortoluron (talk) 13:11, 4 June 2014 (UTC)

Magnitude and composition
The Magnitude and composition section concludes that the decreased metabolism was caused by decreased weight and activity. Since the decreased metabolism outlined in this section has nothing to do with starvation response, should it even be in here? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.130.147.167 (talk) 06:37, 26 June 2015 (UTC)

In the section "Magnitude and composition" -> "General" it is said that "Fatty acids can be used directly as an energy source by most tissues in the body.". On the other hand in the "Biochemistry" section it says that "Fatty acids by themselves cannot be used as a direct fuel source.". 80.223.209.149 (talk) 10:46, 1 October 2015 (UTC)

Muscle macros
At end of 'general' section:
 * Fatty acids can be used directly as an energy source by most tissues in the body.

Should we have some kind of disclaimer here regarding how this affects energy levels for prolonged high-intensity work? A cellular respiration issue. These are burned in the muscle tissue aerobically as explained in fatty acid metabolism. They can replenish ATP but I think it's a slower process than glycolysis so even though both metabolisms can fuel a quick burst of energy, it appears that if you lack glycogen then you can't do high intensity stuff continuously for as long a period before fatigue sets in. People subsisting mostly on fat may not be able to work hard enough in a short period to get 'the burn' from pyruvate fermenting into lactate because they won't have the glycogen to ferment for it.

Exception being that when breaking down triclygerides in the body or food the glycerol molecule can be converted into some glucose so that might be enough to top off glycogen stores while fat feeds the mitochondria. Extra ketones produced from burning more fat instead of glucose might also offset brain demands on glucose since ketones can fuel brain. 184.145.18.50 (talk) 16:07, 3 February 2016 (UTC)

Link #2 seems suspicious.
It doesn’t seem like a legitimate resource 67.201.8.150 (talk) 02:55, 21 December 2023 (UTC)

I agree. A chiropractor who published a couple preliminary studies on fasting in the "Journal of Manipulative and Physiological Therapeutics" and the "Journal of Alternative and Complementary Medicine" over 20 years ago is not a reliable reference. This is junk science.

Contradiction: Reason why fatty acids cannot cross the blood-brain barrier?
In the section "General" it's written

'Fatty acids can be used directly as an energy source by most tissues in the body, but are themselves too ionized to cross the blood–brain barrier.'

However, later "Biochemistry" it's written

'Triglycerides and long-chain fatty acids are too hydrophobic to cross into brain cells'

So it the reason that they cannot cross into the blood-brain barrier that they are ionized or that they are hydrophobic? Or are both properties connected? Though to me it seems weird as ionization and hydrophobia seem different and the latter seems to be more likely the truth for me. I might add the contradiction template. Elimik31 (talk) 13:43, 29 February 2024 (UTC)