Talk:State University of New York at Geneseo/Archives/2013

Rankings Claims
I have adjusted the ranking claim of being the number one value for out of state students in the country and number 7 for in-state. In fact, Geneseo is ranked number 2 and 9 respectively. (For the record their SUNY counterpart, Binghamton University was ranked number one for out-of-state students, perhaps these just got mixed up?

The "SUNY rankings" section is puzzling. It seems to suggest that it's conventional to rank the universities in a state university system. While many states (North Carolina, California, etc.) have flagship universities in addition to less selective schools, and it's worth pointing out that this is not the case in the New York system, I don't believe that any state ranks its universities from one to eight or whatever.Flyte35 (talk) 05:35, 3 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Agreed. There are no flagship schools in the SUNY system. FireAllianceNX (talk) 19:10, 15 June 2010 (UTC)

New Science Center
69.122.13.108 22:21, 27 August 2007 (UTC), Someone might want to update the bit about the new science building. It will have been open for a year come this November...

Academics
02:37, 19 March 2007 (UTC)~ can someone explain what's so "differentiating" about Geneseo's core requirements? Looks pretty standard to me. I read and re-read it and I think it's typical of most colleges and universities to have a broad liberal arts core. Some rotate faculty through the core, some have a prescribed cirriculum of courses, or some hybrid. Comments? Keep or pull?

24.58.0.225 00:58, 15 May 2007 (UTC) Geneseo pioneered the HUMN program (8 hours of western humanities), and it does not allow any student to graduate without taking the I and II sequence, and it does not accept transfers of other humanities courses from other institutions to replace its sequence.

Public Ivy Claim
I have removed the statement that Geneseo has been dubbed a "Public Ivy." You can follow the wikipedia link to the public ivy page, where it verifies Geneseo is not included on that list. Let's not forget, this is a no-point-of-view reference.The 7th edition of Barron's Guide to the Most Competitive Colleges refers to to the school as "New York's Public Honors College" (p.739) It is the only SUNY to be included in the book.

Honors College Claim
02:30, 19 March 2007 (UTC)~ agreed and pulled. There is no such thing as an "honors" college in SUNY.

02:34, 19 March 2007 (UTC)~ pulled the "most selective college publically funded undergraduate in new york state" and I forget what other qualifiers. The selectivity of Geneseo is not noteworthy -- we're not exactly in Williams or Amherst land, or even Colgate land for that matter. This is supposed to be an NPOV encyclopedia article, not promotional material.

Geneseo IS NOT an "honors college" and this title doesn't even exist within SUNY. It's the creation of their PR department and if it's mentioned here, it should be explained as such - continual self-promotion. It's a plan, not a fact. Citing their own self-promotion is not appropriate for NPOV and citing it's own claim might be considered "original research" which is not allowed. No one but Geneseo calls them the honors college.

The statement/idea of the honors college was subtly endorsed by the Lt. Governor at the 2007 Commencement. It's all but inevitable, so I think the reference (even if it's about the college's desire TO BE the honors college) ought to remain on the page for the benefit of high school students/adult learners planning their educations. MartinDuffy 17:17, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

Notable Student Organizations
Since it seems inevitable that everyone is going to want to add their organization to the list, I've made a separate page where such a list will be more appropriate, and replaced the section here with a blurb and a link to the list of Geneseo student organizations. Sevenstorieshi 04:02, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

Response to edit
I have somewhat restored the wording in the paragraph about the New York Times article. Although the original article directly compared Geneseo with its "upstate cousin" Binghamton, in order to avoid any further problems I deleted those references and added a direct quote that does not mention Binghamton at all.

If opinions or statistics about selectivity need to be debated, I hope it would be done in another section of this page or in another forum altogether. All that I did was quote the New York Times, and if their facts are incorrect on this I would contact the newspaper itself.

Retention rate/Selectivity
I have corrected the statement that Geneseo has the highest freshman retention rate in SUNY. While they do, in fact, boast a very high 91%, Binghamton University typically sits at 91-92%. Perhaps they meant to write, the highest for undergraduate colleges in SUNY? I also deleted the comment that Geneseo has, "surpassed," Binghamton in selectivity (among other incorret statements). Geneseo had an admissions rate of 41%, according the numbers given on their own site (http://admissions.geneseo.edu/?pg=frcriteria). Binghamton had 22,800 applicants (as opposed to geneseo's 8861), and out of those, they accepted roughly 7,500. That equates to a 32% acceptance rate. Evidence of this is also supported by Princeton Review's "selectivity" rating, in which Binghamton is, again, listed as more selective.

It has recently been brought to my attention that perhaps Geneseo was confused by seeing a published acceptance rate of 42% for Binghamton University. That recently publish statistic also includes Transfer students and Graduate students. The Freshman acceptance rate remains at just 32%, a previously 35%. Applications are also growing at a rate of over 7%, increasing it's selectivity on a yearly basis, and at a more rapid rate than Geneseo.


 * My acceptance letter from admissions from way back said they received over 10,000 applications way back in 2003. Did you even read the Geneseo admissions site that you cited?. You're misrepresenting it... It never once mentions 41%, it mentions that there are 10 applications for every freshman slot! And http://admissions.geneseo.edu/?p=freshmencriteria says 11,000 applications! That's 34%, not the 41 you "read". I'm presuming right now that you've also gone ahead and inflated the 32% acceptance rate you claimed for Binghamton. Also note that the acceptance rate this coming year is far lower because of the new foreign exchange programs Geneseo has begun with Moscow, South Korea, and Spain. Please don't vandalize. Signed, a suny ALBANY student. MartinDuffy 17:30, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

The section about admissions says that Geneseo is "moderately selective" and then goes on to say that the admissions rate is 33%. I realize moderate is vague word, but 33% seems like more than moderately selective.Flyte35 (talk) 08:21, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

Binghamton Troll
People don't seem to understand the difference between college and university, they think that means the same thing. You need to make sure you clarify, 'as apposed to university,' or something to that effect, otherwise you are being entirely misleading and insulting to other SUNY institutions.

This is not an article about SUNY Binghamton and therefore comparing and contrasting SUNY Geneseo with SUNY Binghamton is out of place. Further, why compare these two schools? Why not compare Geneseo to Colgate or Hamilton or SUNY Buffalo or any other school?

Perhaps we need to elaborate on the structure of SUNY so that it is clear that this is a college, not a research university like Binghamton. I thought this was already very clear.

About the honors college claim: the college has lobbied the State and SUNY for this distinction and is in ongoing talks to make the distinction official. Until then, the college's publications claim de facto honors college status.

Even if Geneseo had the honors college distinction, it wouldn't be putting Binghamton down, or throwing mud on the quality of Binghamton. Binghamton and Geneseo are apples and oranges. Honors college denotes liberal arts college, not research university.

This is not a place to scream "me too" about Binghamton. If you want to write about Binghamton, go contribute to their article.

By the way "prospective" is not the word you wanted there. You wanted "perspective."


 * See Avoid academic boosterism--also, the above probably would be better suited for the offender's, rather than this article's, talk page. --DanielPenfield 15:07, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

Phi Beta Kappa
"[T]he first SUNY school to receive a chapter" is an overstatement:  The official press release is subtitled "First Undergraduate Institution in SUNY To Achieve This Honor"
 * SUNY Albany's chapter (Alpha Alpha of New York) was established in 1974.
 * SUNY Binghamton's chapter (Psi of New York) was established in 1971.
 * SUNY Buffalo's chapter (Omicron of New York) was established in 1938.
 * SUNY Stony Brook's chapter (Alpha Beta of New York) was established in 1974.

Well, Those four SUNY's are all doctoral granting universities, not colleges. It's a pretty big deal for a public school the size of Geneseo to have Phi Beta Kappa.

-Nevertheless, that's no reason not to clarify the truth exactly. Tchalvak 04:36, August 29, 2005 (UTC)

-Removed claim that the SUNY Geneseo is the 2nd SUNY Institution to receive a PBK chapter, it is the 5th (after Buffalo, Binghamton, Albany, and Stony Brook. It is, however, the first undergraduate college in SUNY to receive a chapter. Sevenstorieshi

SUNY Geneseo Motto
I've added the SUNY motto, as SUNY Geneseo does not have its own specific motto. GregChant 19:52, 1 October 2005 (UTC)

More pictures on the page?
Could anyone post a few pictures on the main page of the obvious buildings like Welles, Sturges and the like? The links to the pictures in the text are nice, however I think a few displayed pictures would really add something nice to the article.


 * Pictures have been added since this post was made. --bdesham ★  15:03, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

Notable Faculty
Is there a criteria for notable faculty? The people listed are notable within the college, but in terms of outside of the college, I find this highly specious. Why isn't Dr. William Edgar or Jeremy Grace on this list? It seems to be that if someone is going to be notable enough to warrant being on some list for a college, they would've been notable enough to have their own wikipedia article. GregChant 06:24, 24 February 2006 (UTC)
 * I listed Meisel, Over, Herzman, Cook, and Harding because they are nationally recognized for their research/work.


 * Meisel is involved with such large research projects as the Arecibo Satellite.


 * Harding is still recognized as the most important Thoreau scholar who ever lived.


 * Herzman and Cook are often on television and produce educational videos.


 * Over's research on the devonian extinctions is widely recognized.


 * Edgar, excellent teacher, but not really "reknowned" outside the school for his research, nor would he characterize himself that way.


 * I did not post Stelzig on there, and would'nt have because I think his work isn't as widely respected as those others who I posted.


 * Firstly, please sign your contributions to the talk page. But the point remains that if they are notable, they should have an article about them. There is no indication on this page or any other page why the notable faculty are, in fact, notable. And there are many researchers involved in large research projects as the Arecibo Satellite: how is Meisel notable in that regard?


 * I agree on Harding, but his name should be wikified, and it should be noted either on a separate page for Harding or in this list why he is notable (with references).


 * While it's arguable whether Edgar's work on Ethics is "renknowned," he is widely recognized in the SUNY system and in the region as being one of the best teaching professors of his time. He has been recognized several times for his teaching and contributions to the college community.


 * While not scientific, just to give you sort of a general idea of whether or not the people you listed are notable, I did a Google search on specific terms:
 * * william edgar geneseo : 49,700 hits
 * * william edgar : 27,300,00 hits
 * * bill edgar : 15,700,000 hits
 * * bill edgar geneseo : 46,900 hits
 * * ron herzman : 10,000 hits
 * * david meisel : 561,000 hits
 * * david meisel geneseo : 483 hits


 * Over returns about as many hits as Edgar, and I grant that Cook returns several hundred thousand.


 * The bottom line is, if the person isn't notable enough to warrant his or her own wikipedia article, they are not notable enough to be included in a notable faculty list. I think Dr. Harding is notable enough for that distinction, but I am incredibly dubious about any of the others (including the ones I suggested). GregChant 19:46, 25 February 2006 (UTC)

I agree with the general idea here -- that the list of notable faculty needs to be validated using external criteria -- but a reliance on web hits or Wikipedia entries is simply ludicrous. Neither has anything to do with scholarly merit. I'd suggest using Web of Science to identify the Geneseo authors whose work has been cited the greatest number of times in the scholarly literature. (Unfortunately, I don't have access to Web of Science. Sorry.)

About the sunset claim.
I wrote to National Geographic Magazine asking about the purported claim here, and I receieved this response:

"Thank you for contacting the National Geographic Society.

There are no references in our files indicating that National Geographic magazine has said Geneseo has one of the best sunsets in the world. We are asked from time to time whether the National Geographic Society has ever rated lakes and sunsets as to beauty or towns as to climate. It has not generally been our policy to do so, since personal opinion plays so large a part in determining such things.

I hope that this information will prove helpful.

Sincerely, Carey Lozano Research Correspondence"

So can someone change the article to put this claim to rest? That isn't to say that the sunsets here aren't beautiful (they are absolutely gorgeous) however I thought this information might be informative.


 * Sounds like a pretty robotic response. Is there no online archive that can be google-term searched?MartinDuffy 17:37, 14 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Well, it doesn't sound like they have published ratings. I'm sure if they had the response would be different. --bdesham  ★  15:02, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

Notable Alumni
Whoever posted Jon Hartman needs to provide some context for his inclusion. As it is, it is not clear who Jon Hartman is and why he is notable.

I would like to suggest the addition of Glen Caron, the writer/creator of the television series "Moonlighting" and the producer of the telvision series "Medium", as a notable alumni. 65.126.203.130 17:22, 26 June 2006 (UTC) Greg F. '95

Cleanup / Citation
I'm going to begin an overhaul of the page, attempting to cleanup/organize/ and verify the information on here. Hopefully this will do away with some of the recent back and forth, and also produce a better page. I'm hoping to use some other major universitys' pages as a guide. One thing I need help with is creating a "Sources" or "Notes" section where references can be presented. I'm also going to try to consolodate/rename categories so that they make more sense. All are welcome to contribute to (or undo, with justification) this process. --Sevenstorieshi


 * Hey, I wrote the first major revision of the page, adding the bulk of the information here. My source was the SUNY Geneseo Tour Guide Handbook for 2005-2006, which provided many of the facts and descriptors of the college.  If you have any specific questions about the handbook or what was contained therein, just ask me.

--Cluster One


 * References section is up. Please post references for any info you previously put up, or put up in the future.  It's done in the system. --Sevenstorieshi 19:11, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

Fly Day?
Should there be a discussion of Fly Day in the traditions/Geneseoana section? I never attended when I was a student so I don't much about it, but I know it's an annual event. Sevenstorieshi

Deletion of Binghamton information
I believe that your deleting this pertinant information is vandelism. It is supposed to be an unbiased article, and you twist wording in order to edify your school. I did not mention Binghamton at all in the article, simply added the non-biased fact into the article. Further more, there are rankings that put Binghamton up against Geneseo, and the fact of the matter is Binghamton is ranked as the top public school in the Northeast (a citation from Fisk Guide on Binghamton's page will support my statement). —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 128.226.94.117 (talk • contribs).


 * It’s fairly amusing to read the above statement for someone promoting Binghamton, when the author makes several grammatical and spelling errors. This Binghamton troll certainly isn’t showing the best of that school’s graduates (assuming 128.226.94.117 is a Binghamton student or graduate). The troll also takes the position of being unbiased, but is just writing from a different bias. Don’t feed this troll, just revert the inappropriate edits and eventually he’ll go away. It’ll take a while, but it will happen.Zotdragon 14:41, 22 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Zoltdragon, thanks for backing up what I've been saying. 128.226.94.117 is an IP owned by SUNY Binghamton, so it's safe to call it an inside job.  I did begin formal warnings once I acquianted myself with the proper procedure.  I think other page editors should do the same so it doesn't look like a personal attack on 128.  As for the Geneseo page, there are npov problems that should be addressed.  I'd like to set up a footnotes system so we can link to/cite sources, but I need to read more wiki guidelines before I'm able to know how to set it up right.  Anyone know how those are made? Sevenstorieshi 03:43, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

"Geneseo's entry [...] is significant because of the difference [...] between a liberal arts college and large research university"
The reality is that many, many liberal arts colleges and research universities received charters for ΦΒΚ chapters long before any of the SUNY Colleges or University Centers. It's really not as significant as we would like. --DanielPenfield 16:29, 24 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Agreed. The original wording tries to point out that Geneseo's charter is significant in light of the SUNY system --- ie being the first and only liberal arts college to have a chapter.  It should be reworded.

This page seems immature
Do we really need an entire section devoted to just a list of buildings on campus with that many subheadings? There are a few other examples on the page that just seem like immature writing, especially considering how strongly writing is stressed here. We should be demonstrating in this article just how strong our writing courses are, not how we only write well for papers.

Krock923 14:52, 21 December 2006 (UTC)


 * That section has since been removed. --bdesham ★  20:31, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Geneseoseal.gif
Image:Geneseoseal.gif is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in Wikipedia articles constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 10:03, 4 June 2007 (UTC)


 * I have added the appropriate information to the image talk page. --bdesham ★  20:30, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

Highest Percentage of Singles?
Is it worth mentioning that the Town of Geneseo (as a result of the college, I'm sure) has one of the highest percentage of singles in the coutnry?

Source: http://money.cnn.com/galleries/2007/moneymag/0707/gallery.BPTL_most_singles.moneymag/10.html  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Cluster One (talk • contribs) 20:35, 6 October 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:GeneseoLogotype.gif
Image:GeneseoLogotype.gif is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot 09:44, 7 November 2007 (UTC)


 * I have added the relevant information to the image page. --bdesham ★  15:00, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:GeneseoAthleticsLogo.jpg
Image:GeneseoAthleticsLogo.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 21:53, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

POV
These recent edits removed several references in the course of updating the statistics to 2009, but provided no replacement sources. It also seems very promotional in tone. Suggestions? Powers T 13:47, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

Most prestigious?
An anonymous editor insists on inserting a statement into the lead of this article proclaiming that this is "the most prestigious in the SUNY system." That statement is not supported by reliable sources and thus should not be present. Thoughts? --ElKevbo (talk) 03:41, 26 April 2010 (UTC)
 * It's widely considered so, along with SUNY Binghamton:
 * "Prestigious organizations rank SUNY Geneseo among the top public universities in the United States, and the very best value for international students. 'The Harvard of the SUNY system' says the Princeton Review. 'One of the country's most highly regarded public colleges,' writes The New York Times" - http://profiles.studyusa.com/State_Univ._of_New_York_at_Geneseo_NY060_English.html
 * -- Powers T 22:20, 26 April 2010 (UTC)


 * Can you please directly cite those sources (Princeton Review & NYT) so we can verify and evaluate them? That description at studyusa.com was clearly written by the institution and thus is not a good source for your claim.  I am suspicious of the Princeton Review quote because that is a notoriously bad source and is not at all reliable since it is compiled from a handful of self-selected students.  And the NYT quote, even if substantiated, does not support your claim.
 * Are there other, better sources that substantiate your claim? --ElKevbo (talk) 02:39, 27 April 2010 (UTC)
 * It's not my claim -- I'm just saying the claim isn't unreasonable. That was just the first source I found with some information on the topic.  Powers T 15:03, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

Study Abroad?
How does attending coursework in New York City constitute a "study abroad?" — Preceding unsigned comment added by Floribr1 (talk • contribs) 04:11, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

Banning 128.226.94.117 ???
I think it is vital that the deception being posted on Geneseo's article is dealt with... I feel that appropriate wording has now recently been applied that doesn't even mention Binghamton University, but is also no longer lying to the readers. They exploit the distinction of college and university in a way that technically makes sense to a more informed individual who understands the difference. In reality, most people do not, and Geneseo knows that. Readers are here for real information, and they don't want to know that you are the first of the undergraduate colleges to recieve a distinction, rather, they want to know about you relative to everyone... stop being deceptive. Again, wording has been added that is not only accurate, but puts Geneseo in a generously positive light, and does not mention Binghamton.

Is it possible to ban 128.226.94.117 from contributing to this entry? Everytime he/she does he/she adds the same things about Binghamton University which we then have to erase.


 * See WP:VANDAL for advice. --DanielPenfield 15:07, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

This IP address is from a location at Binghamton University. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.183.3.6 (talk) 21:04, 12 May 2013 (UTC)