Talk:States in Medieval Britain/Archive 1

Discussion on the timespan of the middle ages in Britain

Are these medieval britain? They sound more like those around, say, 6-9th century. After 1066, the existence of separate states in england at least would be dubious, and I thought medieval referred to a time more like 11th -15th century? Would Dark Ages Britain be more accurate? And I don't think there ever was anywhere actually called Camelot, whatever Malory says! -- Malcolm Farmer

Most English historians consider Medieval England to be 1066 (Norman Conquest) to 1485 (War of the Roses and beginning of Tudor period). By this earlier date many of the still extant counties of England were formed (naturally including the protagonists, Lancashire and Yorkshire). Data from the UK Public Record Office, and in the public domain.


 * As I can recall the Middle Ages started in Britain with the fall of the Roman empire in the 5th century A.D.
 * Isn't Britain the whole island? Including Wales & Scotland?

Medieval England aside, the first use of the term middle ages was referring to the period from 476 to 1453. The idea was that this was the dark period between the brilliant light of Rome and the brilliant light of the rennaissance. Since then the attitude has changed and the boundaries have dissolved a little, but the dark ages have always been considered a part.

I would guess the reason Medieval historians start with 1066 is because they are considering what came before then to be Medieval pre-English stuff. If not, then they are using the term in a way inconsistent with everyone else. In any case, since this page is referring to Medieval Britain, I think anything post-Roman should be fine and move to end the weird segregation on the page/

--Josh Grosse -- Do counties really qualify as states? They weren't independent; they were subject to the King. -- Simon J Kissane

I don't think that they do and I will move them to Geography (if they aren't already there) in a few days -- unless anyone objects between now and then. England post 1000AD was basically one state, as was Scotland. As for the medieval/dark ages thing, that was a lot more apparent in Britain than it was in Europe. In France and Italy, written history was more complete so there wasn't so much of a "Dark Age" as there was in Britain, therefore calling everything between 450 and 1450, the Middle Ages made perfect sense to them. -- Derek Ross


 * well the 'Middle Ages' made perfect sense to them if you believe in the social construct they called the 'renaissance' ;). In all seriousnes, please see periodization for what historians keeps historians up at night. --MichaelTinkler