Talk:Statesman (politician)

Definition
Who is a statesman and who is a mere politican?? LirQ

A statesman is a politician who has been dead for at least fifty years. RickK 03:51, 28 Sep 2003 (UTC)

oh really? so JFK was a politican, but Robert Taft was a statesman? LirQ

From American Heritage Dictionary: Don't see a significant difference. Maybe the article should be merged into politican? -- Taku 03:56, 28 Sep 2003 (UTC)
 * 1) A man [or woman] who is a leader in national or international affairs.
 * 2) A male [or female] political leader regarded as a disinterested promoter of the public good.
 * 3) A man [or woman] who is a respected leader in a given field: “a mature statesman of American letters” (Toby Thompson).

Never thought much of JFK as a "statesman". RickK 03:57, 28 Sep 2003 (UTC)


 * These terms ought to be defined in regards to their individual history. When did each enter the language, and how was it originally used?

But if Hitler thought of himself as a statesman, would we call him one? I think statesman is an inherently POV word -- a statesman is a "good politician" -- Im sure Winston Churchill would be a so-called "statesman" -- I see no reason to refer to individuals, within their articles, specifically as "statesmen". LirQ


 * I agree. It shouldn't be applied to anyone unless it's some sort of title, like "Statesman of the Year" or something like that.  RickK 04:08, 28 Sep 2003 (UTC)

Given that any list like this is inherently subjective, how about cutting the examples and just describing the conditions under which someone might be considered a statesman? After all, people will probably arrive here from another article...Mackensen 18:25, 1 Jan 2004 (UTC)

The list could definitely be shortened, a few examples might be ok. Lirath Q. Pynnor

For the love of everyone, please destroy the list. It can never be NPOV. --Jiang 10:38, 2 Jan 2004 (UTC)

Aristotle quote
Aristotle wrote in ancient Greek, and of course never used the word as such. What ancient Greek word are we translating here as "statesman"?--Pharos 02:49, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

Propose to disambiguate
I think disambiguation of "statesman" will be useful since it can take on several distinct usages. I want to move the page currently at "statesman" to "statesman (politics)", and the page currently at "politicus" to "statesman (dialogue)." Does anyone object? --Antireconciler

Kissinger quote
I don't think Kissinger should be used as an example of a statesman given his track record in Latin America and Vietnam
 * Complete --Antireconciler

Move
Move to Statesperson.70.74.35.144 (talk) 11:23, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

There is a significant difference between politician and statesman. Anyone elected to office is a politician but only a few politicians congruently and consistently manage to work as "disinterested promoters of the public good" with integrity. There is a huge difference between the two. True, the words statesman, stateswoman, and statesperson are often applied loosely to any head of state, any senior political figure, or anyone who in a given moments exhibits a certain quality of "statespersonship." Just as the word politician is often applied to someone who knows how to manipulate others. In a sense, generalizing greatly, a politician is a master of manipulation, managing certain aspects of human behavior, and political science whereas a statesman is a master of political philosophy and has a different frame for understanding and working with human behavior. [User:]] 00:00, 11 Jun 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.193.206.1 (talk)

Move to Statesperson
Since my move to Statesperson was undone, I think it should at least be discussed here. I don't think that "statesman" is particularly more common that "statesperson". Generally women who hold the position are referred to as a statesperson, not a stateswoman, so "statesperson" makes more sense as the default than "statesman". Also it's just weird that "stateswoman" currently redirects to "statesman". I know that Wikipedia is not about prescriping usage, but this is obviously sexist usage. Spock of Vulcan (talk) 17:06, 13 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Also, see WP:GENDER. "Man to stand for both genders in general, either as a separate item (man's greatest discoveries), a prefix (mankind, manmade), or a suffix (businessman, fireman)" is listed as a case when gendered language can easily be avoided. This clearly falls in that last category.

AfD
This is a rather pointless article more suited for wiktionary. 'Statesman' is a rather ill-defined term of respect for long-serving politicians. There's no really encyclopedic distinction to be made here — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.205.120.39 (talk) 05:02, 30 January 2012 (UTC)