Talk:Stay-at-home dad/GA1

GA Review
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Hey all. I'll be reviewing this article for possible GA status. Please note that the GA nomination was not completed properly, as the template was not added to the talk page; I've now added it to create this review. Nikkimaria (talk) 17:28, 25 July 2009 (UTC)
 * I've now completed my review and am placing the article on hold pending improvements. Cheers, Nikkimaria (talk) 22:43, 25 July 2009 (UTC)

Writing and formatting

 * Take a look at WP:Lead - the lead needs to be longer and should outline the main points made in the article (without becoming essay-like)
 * The lead now appears to be partially doubled - why is this?
 * It was an accident, I apologize. Denastroje (talk) 02:47, 29 July 2009 (UTC)Denastroje


 * The "essay-like" tag already on the page needs to be addressed before the article can achieve GA status.
 * I don't really know how we could make it more essay like. We've done a lot of work on it, however I don't know what you would think about it. Also, what do you mean by addressing the tag? Who deletes it? Furthermore, what could be done to make it more "essay-like"?Denastroje (talk) 02:47, 29 July 2009 (UTC)Denastroje
 * The intent is to make the article less essay-like, not more. This is done by writing in a encyclopedic tone / style. Look at WP:TONE for some suggestions, WP:MOS for more. You address the tag by correcting the issues that it raises - here, by making the article less essay-like. You can either remove the tag yourself once you've done this or, if you're not sure, ask on the talk page if it's been dealt with. Either way, be prepared to justify its removal - if the problem has not been fixed, you're better off not removing the tag.


 * The table of contents is overly long. This could be fixed by combining some of the smaller sections, which would also make the article flow better.
 * "Most families typically" - redundant wording
 * "brought over as initially as indentured servants" - grammar
 * "slave trade was a thriving business" - "the slave trade" or "slave trading"
 * Why is "African-American" hyphenated in the heading but not in the section itself?
 * "Although, without all of the major events in the twentieth century, including the Great Depression, World War II, and the baby boom, the American family would not have transitioned to what it is today" - grammar + clarity needed
 * The article as a whole could use more internal links
 * When a sentence ends with a citation, there needs to be a period between the last word and the citation
 * Dates are not possessives - instead of "1950's", use "1950s"
 * "which is often contributed to many families" - grammar
 * "in the Western world of the recent years" - grammar
 * The article uses too many lists, some of which would be better incorporated as prose
 * Could you further explain this?Denastroje (talk) 21:37, 28 July 2009 (UTC)Denastroje
 * Instead of using a lot of bulleted points, try incorporating these points in paragraph form. You can do that by removing the asterisks, making sure that all sentences are complete, and exapanding on certain points if necessary. The completed prose should be 1-3 paragraphs.


 * "we are to presume" - not encyclopedic tone
 * "utilize" -> "use"
 * Some of your citations have an extra curly bracket that bleeds into the text
 * "Stereotypes/Costs" is a poor choice for a section heading
 * Should not use "you" in an encyclopedic article
 * "However, despite the gains in acceptance of the role of househusband, there are still many men who are trying to find acceptance in this role" - awkward
 * "worry about loosing" - meaning?
 * "households who with a stay-at-home mom" - grammar
 * "Full time working women were also more engaged with their children on a day to day basis then working fathers were" - grammar
 * "Most notably the character Charlie Conway" - not a complete sentence
 * The entertainment section as a whole needs copyediting
 * What do you mean by copyediting? We're deleting some of the insubstantial examples, is there anything else you'd like us to do?Denastroje (talk) 21:37, 28 July 2009 (UTC)Denastroje
 * Yes - by copyediting, I mean checking the section for spelling, grammar, etc, and making changes as necessary. I appreciate the reduction in examples, but the section still needs some work in regards to mechanics of writing.
 * Better, but there's still more to do...
 * What else do we need to do? Do you think this will EVER pass? I'm running out of patience! Thanks for all your help though! Denastroje (talk) 03:07, 29 July 2009 (UTC)Denastroje
 * You know, if you'd asked me at the beginning of this if this would pass, I'd have said no - we all expected this assignment to improve articles, but probably not pass them. However, you've put a lot of work into this, and I bet that at least one of these articles will pass - and at this point, yours is one of the front runners. There are issues, but they are being resolved - it just takes time and patience, so save some of yours. I'll do the entertainment section, but feel free to look at the history after to see what I did (ask if you're not sure how to do this). Nikkimaria (talk) 03:24, 29 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks nikki, you've been so helpful! Denastroje (talk) 03:37, 29 July 2009 (UTC)Denastroje
 * No problem, glad I can help. (P.S. one assignment just passed GA! Don't give up!). Nikkimaria (talk) 03:54, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

More/new issues:
 * The Books section is cited using [26] instead of citation templates - needs to be fixed
 * In "Statistics", there should not be a space between period and citation
 * Might consider breaking "Disadvantages" into the same categories used for "Advantages" and expanding slightly
 * Missing hyphens in some places - see WP:HYPHEN for guidelines
 * Should consistently use the term "stay-at-home dad(s)" instead of househusband
 * Father should definately be linked in the main body of the article

Accuracy and verifiability

 * Page number tag needs to be addressed
 * All "citations needed" tags must be addressed
 * Section tag on increase in popularity needs to be addressed
 * Citations needed for:
 * In the colonial United States, the nuclear family was the most common family form
 * The first African Americans to reach America were brought over as initially as indentured servants, but instead they became slaves, and by the nineteenth century, slave trade was a thriving business
 * As this rapid transition took place, families lost many of their production functions. Instead, family members had to work outside the home to earn enough
 * At the beginning of the twentieth century, married couples began to emphasize the importance of sexual attraction and compatibility in their relationships. This lead to more intimate and open relationships and also more freedom for adolescents from their parents. The transition of the family was also influenced by the Great Depression, which forced many women into the workplace in order to help compensate
 * There are two parts to this, and I think the first may need to be cited also, for clarity. The part satisfactorily cited has been italicized.
 * Due to the draft, work was scarce in many industries and employers began to fill many jobs with women, especially in nontradtional positions. This increase in working women became one of the few times in history in which women were praised for their work outside the home
 * It is hard for these men to adapt from being a financial provider in the family to being a homemaker
 * Many stay-at-home dads dislike being labeled Mr. Mom largely due to the bumbling nature of the title character, the implication that stay-at-home dads are maternal rather than paternal, and the general emasculating tone of such terminology
 * This is briefly touched upon in the Blue-ray commentary of the movie.
 * Bombay clearly cares about Charlie and spends the film shaping him into a leader and a good man. This is seen throughout the trilogy of films. Most importantly though Bombay's character displays ways in which you can still be seen as a man in society without being the breadwinner. The clearest example is through coaching and being involved in the child's athletic life
 * It has been described by Allison Pearson as "a very very funny and often touching account of one man's struggle to run Planet Home."


 * Need ISBN numbers for as many books as possible
 * The same source used multiple times should be cited using the multiref format. See WP:REFNAME.
 * Refs 22, 24, 26, 29 need to be expanded
 * References have been altered after adding new citations. Which references still need expanded?
 * 11, 20, 28

More/new concerns:
 * If one book title is italicized in references, they all should be
 * References and External links should have no entries in common
 * External links 2, 4, 5, 6 are broken
 * Blogs are generally not acceptable external links
 * Consensus is against IMDB as a source, especially where other sources are available. Replace if possible.
 * I would strongly encourage you to place citations throughout the paragraphs, rather than simply one at the end. If other editors add material to the paragraph, it becomes unclear what is cited and what isn't
 * The start of the entertainment section needs citations

Broad

 * Tag about worldview needs to be addressed
 * What should we do if we haven't found any information on worldwide views? We've looked thoroughly but haven't come across anything. Can we delete the tag? Denastroje (talk) 21:38, 28 July 2009 (UTC)Denastroje
 * No, you can't delete the tag because the issue hasn't been addressed. Here's Canadian, British, Australian, and Chinese for starters. There's plenty of stuff out there - I got these off of Google. Be patient, and keep looking. You can try using the region-specific parameter in Google Advanced Search if you can't find anything in the regular search.
 * This says "But in South Africa, we are fortunate that many stay-at-home dads have the luxury of a domestic helper." although not much else. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 02:36, 29 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Here's Japan, Italy (I think), Islam (Housewife has a tiny bit more), Judaism, and India (some).
 * Thanks so much for your input and help, it's really appreciated!Denastroje (talk) 03:04, 29 July 2009 (UTC)Denastroje


 * Why are there no benefits to the father listed?
 * The pop culture tag needs to be addressed

Neutrality

 * Take a look at WP:WTA - certain words introduce an editorial bias to an article and should be avoided

Stability
No issues noted

Images

 * The article could use another image, but this is not a requirement for GA
 * The image's tag may need to be replaced - see the note on the image's page for details.