Talk:Steam (service)/Archive 1

What is steam?
Ok, so I have no clue what steam is, so i went to the article to find out, i'm sure it makes perfect sense if you do know about steam, but to a non-user it does not provide much information about it. Would a small section at the start explaining clearly about it be posssible?

Current status of Offline play
--- Can someone go over and post a coherent article on the current state of offline play,I recall HL2 being forced into a online only mode after update,allot of confution over this has lead me to come here and ask

1.Is there a offline mode,will steam or steam games function with no internet. 2.If some games do and some don't what are they?

Sorry if I am posting wrong I am a noob >< I feel these questions are valid since it was the buggy launch of steam that made me not touch anything connected with steam.

ZippyDSMlee 10:15AM est, 19 March 2007 (UTC) (wiki needs a time stamp....badly...)

Pricing
---

I'm not entirely sure where to add it. But perhaps the new geographically based pricing system should be added to the article. I just looked on steam now, and Prey is retailing at around $50, but in North and South America, it is listed as roughly $20. Should this go under the criticism section?

---

The first sentance defining steam doesn't make sense and is very difficult to understand. I removed Half-Life: Blue Shift as a likely future Source game on Steam. Neither Half-Life: Opposing Force nor Blue Shift will likely get the Source remake, as Valve did not create them, but Gearbox did. Blue Shift is not even available in the "classic" version on Steam, and probably will never be:
 * Blue Shift is not available under Steam and there are no plans to make it so.
 * Blue Shift was produced by Gearbox (not Valve) and so Gearbox would need to do the conversion.

From Steam support

I'd love to see where the info on 'Blue Shift' in Source comes from, and be proven wrong! Anárion 23:38, 5 Dec 2004 (UTC)


 * Blue Shift is now available via Steam. --Charron 01:36, 26 August 2005 (UTC)

Chunk mistakenly added to steam

 * Steam is also an video game distributing system created by Valve( Half-Life, Counter-Strike , Day of Defeat are some of their more popular titles) that allows costumers to buy, download, and play games without ever leaving their computer. After download steam instantly updates all installed games allowing weekly updates to it's interface. Steam also contains development kits for dedicated servers and mods . Steam offers a instant messaging system that allows you to communicate with other users out of game and allowed them to play board games such as checkers and chess with each other.

Above text posted to the talk page by User:Aarchiba.

There's nothing there that isn't said in the article already. --Mrwojo 00:08, 31 Mar 2005 (UTC)

---

I think another criticism of steam that is worth mentioning is that it prevents users of linux and other operating systems from using Valve products.

A valid point, which the article does address. Steam has problems, not only with Linux users but dial-up and many players outside of North America. This article should point them out when they are valid and Valve has done little or nothing to resolve them. However, any attempts to do this are usually met with charges of bias and "Steam Bashing" by certain Zealots here, who are themselves biased in Steam's favor. And who replace our edits with their own that glance over Steam's shortcomings.


 * It works fine under Linux, just load up a somewhat recent version of Cedega and play. --Tom Edwards 16:38, 27 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Not everyone can afford Cedega. I would much rather have bought that than Windows XP, but XP was included with basicly every computer, so that wasn't an option. Oh well, that's what dual-boot is for. --Kinkoblast 23:46, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

Connectivity/Reliability Issues
I think somewhere in the article, the stability issues present in earlier versions of Steam should be mentioned. For a long time (until a few months before HL2 if I remember correctly), Steam was extremely unreliable for some users, often not connecting at all or encountering numerous other problems. These problems varied from computer to computer. Some computers would never have trouble with Steam and some would never work right with it. Also, perhaps mention that the Friends server is perpetually down? Some guy 08:27, 13 October 2005 (UTC)


 * Ahh yes September 2003. I remember it well. The supposed launch of Steam was delayed by nearly a year due to these problems. I think the Criticism section would be the perfect place to mention this. Go for it guy! Be bold!
 * Better still, Centralised Issues. --Tom Edwards 21:32, 14 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Thanks for adding it. Some guy 01:59, 29 October 2005 (UTC)
 * I think that Valve has admitted that the Friends feature isn't coming back into operation for quite a long time, so I wouldn't describe it as down as such, just undergoing heavy redevelopment. --Film11 10:16, 15 October 2005 (UTC)

Removed paragraph
"Another major issue is the auto-update model. To play a game offline, Steam and the game itself must be fully updated; and updates are always checked for when starting Steam while online. If there is an update the game is marked as not up to date, regardless of whether the user wants to update or not. They must then update the game before being able to play offline again. The worst affected are dial-up users: not only are they the ones who are most likely to use offline mode, they are the ones least capable of updating. Once applied, an update cannot be rolled back; thus, outside of offline mode, even buggy updates are mandatory." -- Taken from the criticism section, this is no longer true. Games can be marked as "DO NOT UPDATE" and the system will not automatically begin updates.
 * It's actually do not automatically update. It doesn't make any difference except that the game not update on its own. It is still marked as not being up to date, and the game still cannot be played without downloading the update. --Tom Edwards 07:19, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

RV "Vandalism"
I don't see how the sections Tom edwards reverted were vandalism. Others have just as much right to edit and add to this article as you Tom. It is not the property of you or Valve Corp, You did not even start it!
 * That does not make their edits correct. Call it what you will, the older revision is neither as accurate nor as detailed as mine. --Tom Edwards 10:50, 16 November 2005 (UTC)


 * Well let's compare, here's theirs:
 * Steam would allow a game developer to "cut out the middleman" &mdash; namely game publishers and storefronts &mdash; and directly sell and distribute their products to users via the Internet, many have predicted Steam and future concepts like it would revolutionize the gaming industry in the same way P2P threatens the livelihood of the music and movie houses. This fact culminated into a legal battle between Valve and their publisher Vivendi Universal Games, where VUG argued that Steam was an attempt to circumvent their publishing agreement. However, on November 29, 2004, Valve announced the courts had granted their motion of summary judgement in this case.


 * And now yours:
 * Steam was primarily developed to attain 'secure content delivery and rights management', allowing users to download, update and use content wherever they are, ensuring in the process that they own the product. This reasoning came about after Valve looked at their own products and realised that patching and getting new content (for example mods) for them could be a very slow and laborious process, with enourmous, monolithic patch files that the user had to both find out about and find a download for themselves. From this idea came today's system, which also incorporates anti-cheat technology (see VAC 2), marketing tools and communication services.


 * Theirs sounds more NPoV, whereas yours sounds more like a Valve press release. Especially here:


 * Despite popular opinion, and perhaps their past actions, Valve do not today seem particuarly concerned with using Steam to combat piracy. Their future plans revolve around making the platform more useful for developers and customers than more frustrating for anyone stealing the games on it.


 * And now theirs:


 * Valve's Doug Lombardi revealed in October 2004 that Half-Life 2 required activation via Steam in order to play. When Half-Life 2 hit some store shelves earlier than its intended release date of November 16, Valve reported that Vivendi prevented them from activating the Steam authentication servers until the 16th.


 * Here it seems they are presenting the facts, while you are presenting Valve's opinion. That does'nt seem to be vandalism to me. They are raising some points which should at least be DISCUSSED. In the meantime ASSUME GOOD FAITH. You seem inclined to do neither.--R.D.H. (Ghost In The Machine) 11:50, 16 November 2005 (UTC)


 * Everything you quote is beneath the new text, seeing as it is more specific and not as good an introduction. Take a look. --Tom Edwards 11:52, 16 November 2005 (UTC)


 * That is your PoV, Sir, I think it is just as good if not better.--R.D.H. (Ghost In The Machine) 12:11, 16 November 2005 (UTC)


 * You've re-added the warez links. This is against policy. I'll leave it for a while to make sure you have time to respond, then revert to my last edit unless I can be convinced otherwise.


 * If you really want the second paragraphs above the introductory ones, I'll do that. It won't read as well but will at least be accurate. --Tom Edwards 12:21, 16 November 2005 (UTC)


 * Hey it is only providing specific information. C'mon what happened to BE BOLD?! But if you think it best I will remove it. It does drive the point home, though, about Steam not being 100% secure, as you (and Newell) earlier claimed. Hmm maybe it belongs under the SECURITY section instead :>--R.D.H. (Ghost In The Machine) 12:45, 16 November 2005 (UTC)

Separation of Client and Service?
Most of the article concerns Steam's webservice side, with one section and a few other snippets specifically covering the client program. What do people think of making the distinction larger? Not to the point of having two articles, but having two top-level headings. --Tom Edwards 21:17, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

What's this all about?
Here's the text that an anon with the IP 85.206.65.13 added: "Though the real purpose of Steam is to verify each player's CD-key. Players can't even play LAN games without Internet connection and that is a huge draw-back of Steam. In theory, Steam is meant to prevent playing the game without paying. Though there is already unoficial non-Steam releases of various games, such as 'Counter-Strike 1,6', 'Counter-Strike Source'. These non-Steam releases are a lot simplier. You can just play multiplayer games, which are ideologicaly free (for example, Counter-Strike) really freely and easily. You can just download non-Steam releases of various free multiplayer games like Counter-Strike series from the Internet (for example, using Google) and play them over Internet for free, the way it should be." I know it violates the Manual of Style a bit and the person behind the IP could be some person who is opposing Steam (if you look at the last two sentences). What do you think about this text? --Bruin_rrss23 (talk) 03:31, 23 April 2006 (UTC)
 * I dont think that this text should be included in the article for several reasons. First of all, in my experiance, unless something has changed recently, it is possible to go to an "offline mode" to play on LAN without an internet connection. Also, my intuition says that the games mentioned in the last sentence are not legitimate, and the last two sentences are biased even moreso than the rest of the section.
 * The text is correct, I think, i have no sources, that Steam was created as a way to simplify content control for games, as well as to be a digital distribuition service. My 2¢ Mythmon 03:57, 17 May 2006 (UTC)
 * The last phrase "the way it should be" is just a biased point of view anyway, if not encouraging piracy. The text should be kept out.  --Film11 20:27, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
 * It's clearly opinion, from start to finish. --Tom Edwards 06:09, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

Meta Score?
I noticed a section in the steam client labeled meta score for some games, i didnt find anything about it in a quick search, does anyone have a source to add it to the article with? Mythmon 03:51, 17 May 2006 (UTC)
 * I would like to know what this is as well. Someone should put something in the article about it 69.136.162.114 22:27, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Here's the announcement. --Tom Edwards 09:07, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

Protest
I remember posting on a forum of a website which was protesting against or boycotting steam, but I can no longer find it. It would be a good external link if anyone knows it.--Darrelljon 20:28, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Are you thinking about steamwatch.org? It's been gradually shut down through lack of activity and interest. It was an 'open letter' and empty forum in March last year, then it became just a front page, and now it's been abandoned entirely. I guess they had nothing to talk about... --Tom Edwards 07:52, 27 May 2006 (UTC)
 * I used to visit http://atev.tk, not sure if it was the same thing, but that's closed now.--Darrelljon 17:09, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

Stardock link?
Because it's good to "be bold", I removed the *Stardock Central link in the 'See Also' section as I see no reason why there should be a link to Stardock - it is not mentioned in the article and seemingly has nothing to do with Steam. Does anyone know why it was put there in the first place?

Desire Campbell 24.222.158.63 17:42, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

Regarding a time issue

 * SteamID reporting error
 * In the Winter of 2005/6 to mid-Spring 2006...

Winter is rather relative, how can one know if it's the winter on the north or south hemisphere?
 * Good point. It's North. I'll fix that now. --Tom Edwards 12:49, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

P2P Analogy
"...has led many to predict that Steam and future concepts like it will revolutionize the gaming industry in the same way that P2P threatens the livelihood of the music labels and movie publishing houses"

Not sure about that analogy. I mean, wouldn't it be more accurate to compare Steam with iTunes or bands/musicians who sell their own music directly from their website? --Joshtek 20:24, 24 August 2006 (UTC)
 * That seems more sensible. --Tom Edwards 20:27, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

Dead links
removed few dead links Prithvi raj 14:42, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

Guest Passes
The Steam Review has found some info on a possible new feature in Steam called Guest Passes. The assumption is it allows your friends to play on multiplayer games with you that don't have the game for a limited time. Should we add this info into the wiki yet?
 * While it isn't "official" yet it's fairly obvious that it's planned, so I'd say go for it. The article would need a new section for future functionality, mind. --Tom Edwards 09:13, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

The Steam Account Does Not Own This Game
In the article the following is stated....

"On October 1 2006, approximately 40% of active Steam users [14] (50 000 at the time) were consistently disconnected from online servers with an error stating that their account did not own the game in question."

Now i would have thought that 50,000 would be a lot less than 40% of all steam accounts, even active ones, you dont mind me asking where these figures have come from?

Or am i reading that wrong?
 * Click on the [14] link and you'll be taken to a footnote with source information. --Tom Edwards 11:58, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Ahh i see, i thought it meant 40% of all active steam users at the time, not 40% of currently online users. Thanks for clearing that up!

Steam can't connect to steam servers (Dec. 15, 2006)
New connectivity problems today posted on the steamforums. Added it to the article. 62.235.143.29 16:07, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Thanks. I wondered why it said my account didn't exist, and http://support.steampowered.com/ is unavailable. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 62.31.43.124 (talk) 20:38, 15 December 2006 (UTC).

Wondering about the verb tense in this sentence...
 * This problem has still not been rectified, and in a statement, Steam said that they do not know when the servers will be back online and fully functional.

If this is referring to December 15, 2005, wasn't it resolved at some point? Or did someone just screw up and write 2005 instead of 2006? I'm kind of confused... there was a power outage knocking down Steam on December 15, 2005 and 2006?! --geoff 21:15, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Strange. 15 Dec 06 (today) 14:00 here in sweden I couldnt log onto the servers. But, don't they have servers in other places? Hope they solve it soon - I want to play Sin Episodes :/ Cybesystem 21:56, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
 * There was a storm until around 7 a.m. December 15, 2006 PST (UTC-8). Power might still out at the VALVe offices, where their server farm is most likely at, in Bellevue, King County, Washington State, United States.--Rabbitdude 22:39, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Man, I hope they get them back online ASAP. I was planning to play Natural Selection for a while, but I guess I won't be able to. :( Ikki the Fox Breeder 22:59, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
 * I hope they get back online soon too, I was planning on raging some servers today ;) — Joshua Johaneman [[Image:Flag_of_New_York.svg|30px|]] 23:02, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
 * I think someone just screwed up, since that statement about 2005 was added today NHammen 23:03, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

''Server Downtime and Power-Outages On December 15, 2005 the main Steam content-delivery servers were sent offline after heavy storms and flooding in North West America, causing widespread power-outs and flooding. Many users were angry that Steam had no backup of the servers, or another way of keeping them online. This problem meant that customers could not log into their Steam accounts, let alone play any games. This problem has still not been rectified, and in a statement, Steam said that they do not know when the servers will be back online and fully functional. Server Downtime and Power-Outages Exactly one year later, on December 15, 2006 there was a wide spread power outage in Bellevue / Seattle caused by storms and high winds impacting Steam Server availability. This message on Wikipedia is the only message that some people have been able to find about the problem, further angering many Steam users. The forums and support system for Steam are down, and there is no way to access the network status at www.steampowered.com/status.''

That is all wrong, dates are wrong ((2005???))..... - Greg

PLEASE READ: (added later, this section contains void and obselete information) If you guys want to and I highly suggest you do, call up the power company and complain. One of my friends works for PG&E and he says they generally work faster to correct an issue if lots of complaints are recieved. Though some googling, I found Valve's power company to be Pugent Sound. Contact them here: http://www.pse.com/InsidePSE/ContactUsLanding.aspx That should help speed things up. I've already called about fives times and I am setting up an autodialer with a recorded message.--Wiki Fanatic | Talk 01:51, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
 * That is the worst thing to do, look the main power lines are down and PSE is bringing people from out of state to help. This is not a local problem to Bellevue as I just confirmed that with my family in the area. Four people have died and millions are without power and all you care about is playing your games? Bitch all you want at VALVe for not having a backup server but please do not waist PSE's time because you have nothing better to do that play games. Wiki fanatic what your doing is totally idiotic and waisting the time of people that have better things to do, I really hope you grow up. BJ Talk 01:59, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Please be respectful on wikipedia and please do not call me a moron or idiotic. I am very surprised that you would use such language. This is wikipedia, please be civilized. I will choose not to respond with name-calling. I am simply offering a solution to this problem. If you don't like my solution, then don't use it, but don't resort to abuse. Now, for those of you who want to help, call 1-888-225-5773. Its a toll free number, so no cost to you unless you're using a cell.--Wiki Fanatic | Talk 02:28, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Yes, help by wasting the time of the people that are trying to fix the problem, do you really think they don't know that 700,000 people have no power? Do you really think a bunch of childish gamers calling them up 10 times is make them fix the power lines any faster? Really this such a waist of their time it's not even funny and it is quite idiotic. BJ Talk 02:35, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Steam is up! BJ Talk 02:38, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
 * I don't understand what your problem is. Please stop using disrespectful language towards me. I am well within my right to do this. If you call me idoitic again, I will report you to the admins and whatnot. I understand you have a different viewpoint than mine, but please do not use abusive langauge. If you have constructive criticism to add, please do, but statements like you're an idiot and you're a moron are just plain unnecessary. Do it again and I will report you.--Wiki Fanatic | Talk 02:45, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Love your Hypocrisy there fanatic, being abusive in wikipedia is wrong, but encouraging harrasment of people via telephone is quite all right(even though its illegal in many states)Puff65537 03:58, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
 * There is no hypocrisy. I am not using profanity or anything like that. I am simply telling the company they need to fix this issue urgently and hoping everyone else will too. Its promoting awareness. I am well within my right to do that and it is not illegal. If you doubt, you may refer me to your local police office. Its not illegal ask other people to call the company regarding certain issues. I'm certainly not the only one. Many organizations and even other companies do it. If you don't wish to call, thats up to you.And thank you for not resorting to abusive langauge.--Wiki Fanatic | Talk 08:25, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
 * "I've already called about fives times and I am setting up an autodialer with a recorded message" This is not "simply telling the company they need to fix this issue urgently" this is a harassment, if you did this to a person it is illegal and same applies to a company. What even more shocking is the fact that you're willing to promote the harassment of a company that needs to do it job to save lives just so you can play a game. PSE needs to know where the real problems are and thats why they have a phone number to call and report the problem, by calling for a mass harassment of their that number you impair their ability to find and fix the power lines that have not already been reported. I still have no idea why you think calling them at all was a good idea but 5 plus times? Give me a break. BJ Talk 08:38, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
 * This arguement has gotton out of hand. This is not harrassment and even if it is, its not illegal. If it is, please inform the police. I will even email you my contact and address details if you like. Your arguement holds no merit. Telemarketers and poltical parties call me all time, many several times a day and they call thousands of companies and people around the area. I have yet to see one arrested. There is nothing shocking about my actions. I paid for my games and I want to play them. There is nothing wrong with that. The contact number provided on their site said general inquires. Like I said, this conversation is getting out of hand. I'm ending it here. If you wish to apologize for your rudeness, you may do so at my talk page. Otherwise, this talk page needs to gets back on topic about steam. BTW, it seems steam is back up and running and there is no need to contact the energy company anymore. My PLEASE READ public annoncement is void and obselete anyway.--Wiki Fanatic | Talk 13:44, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Steam is not up to everybody. The issue has not been resolved.  While I understand that you may be concerned about people in the greater Seattle area, please do not let your personal opinion get in the way of editing.  I do think that it is relevant that Steam (and Valve) do not know when the current issue will be resolved.  As the Steam website and forums seem to be running at a slow pace, and as people do come to wikipedia to check up on these sorts of issues, I do not think that you should be deleting information (that is sourced) regarding that. Dx87 03:06, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Wikipedia is an encyclopedia not a news source, there is no need to provide updates every time something changes. BJ Talk 03:53, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
 * The point is that it hasn't changed, there is no estimated time of recovery. The other issues have all been resolved, and some show at what time they were fixed, or the amount of time it took to fix them.  The article right now does not make it clear whether or not the issue has been resolved or not. Dx87 04:10, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
 * I'm not insulting you just your actions. BJ Talk 02:46, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

I think what needs emphasis on the server outage article is the fact that when the server goes down, you are not able to play any of the games that you have purchased through Steam. In order to go into offline mode, you need to have authenticated with their servers first, before you switch into offline. If you can't log in........no games. User:SeanWDP
 * As far as I know you can remove the network cable from your computer and it will go into offline mode. BJ Talk 02:06, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
 * But only if you have been authenticated beforehand. Once authenticated, offline mode is enabled and then you can yank the network cable and offline mode turns on.--Wiki Fanatic | Talk 02:32, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

Yeah I was kinda surprised to see 15 dec 2005 in the list. Coincidence I thought, but apparently its possible that someone just wrote the year wrong... DTE 12:21, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

Nevermind, I see someone removed the 2005 one and left mine alone DTE 12:22, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

CS Advertising
This is pretty recent, but it might turn into something: http://games.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=06/12/20/2034251 Basically, Valve could use their content delivery platform and VAC to force ad's into old games. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Matrixhax0r (talk • contribs) 02:22, 22 December 2006 (UTC).
 * Wikipedia is not a crystal ball, but VALVe has said it would do it, so a blurb on the subject wouldn't be bad but I wouldn't put anything about community backlash till it happens. BJ Talk 03:12, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
 * The chances are this will be handled through IGA's servers. --Tom Edwards 10:49, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

Weasel words in Resale of Steam games section
The section states something is obvious, and then states that something is so, 'in some minds'. These phrases do not present stated opinions of actual people or firms, so the reader can evaluate these arguments, but rather presents an issue as having already been decided by some pseudo-knowledgeble anonymous people. Jerry lavoie 04:28, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Well, I just removed the weasel words and the tag you added, plus added an unreferenced tag to the section. BJ Talk 04:48, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

New Steam update next week
via Neowin:

Here's a look at some of the key features to be rolled out to the millions of Steam users in this Winter Update: Guest Passes Guest Passes allow owners of certain Steam games (purchased either via Steam or at retail) to let their friends play games for free, for a limited time trial. The first game to take advantage of this new feature will be Day of Defeat: Source. Background Client Updates Since the Steam client was first released, it has always kept itself up to date -- but now it'll do so without making you wait during startup. Instead, it will acquire new updates in the background and then (once they're downloaded) ask if you'd like to restart and apply them. Steam will also let you know what's new whenever a new update is ready to apply. New User Interface Steam's got a new coat of paint. We've stripped away all the non-essentials and created a new streamlined appearance, available in five different colors. Favorites Steam's catalog of games has grown quite a bit over the past year or so. The new Favorites feature in the My Games tab of Steam allows for quick access to your favorite Steam games and additional functionality for personalizing your Steam library of content.
 * Signing name Geologik 07:56, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

Valve as a publisher?
Does anyone know what the nature of the contract is between Valve and developers who publish through Steam, and how it compares financially to traditional publishers?
 * This article is outdated but it's the best we've got. Valve are coy about it, but an overview is that they don't demand IP ownership, don't lock developers into long-term contracts, and take less than 40% of profits (variable). --Tom Edwards 10:02, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks.