Talk:Step by Step (Annie Lennox song)

Untitled
On December 19, 1996, Whitney Houston suffered a late-term miscarraige. The pregnancy is evident in the video for this song. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.225.212.208 (talk) 22:20, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

Original version
Shouldn't the original version be more emphasized in this article? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.216.152.126 (talk) 19:19, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

Whitney Houston song vs. Annie Lennox song
Not sure I agree with your move. After all the song was written by Annie Lennox, therefore it will always be an Annie Lennox song. Houston might have the more famous version, but she only recorded it. So for me "Step by Step (Whitney Houston) is a complete misnomer. It also contains one of my bee-in-my-bonnet phrases, "The song was originally writen (sic!) by Annie Lennox. Who wrote the song subsequently? OK Bitchfest over, please accept my apologies, but if you'd like to consider moving back I'd be much appreciative. Regards, --Richhoncho (talk) 18:23, 16 September 2009 (UTC)


 * Hmmm. I see your point. Annie DID perform the song first, PLUS she's the writer! However, there are a few sticking points that prompted me to move the article. Check them out and let me know what you think.
 * Whenever a song article's title needs to be disambiguated, it normally takes the title of the artist who first brought the song to prominence, rather than the writer. This is probably a good idea because a song could have a slew of writers! That would make a bad convention to end up with a title like Stop! In the Name of Love (Holland-Dozier-Holland song).
 * I listened to Annie's version and the two renditions are very, very different! Whitney's has wholly new lyrics and melodies in both verses. Her version also omits significant portions of Annie's bridge. It's so much like a brand new song that the two versions could easily have separate articles.
 * It would solve our dilemma completely to move the article to Step By Step (song), but New Kids on The Block probably have a greater claim to that title, hands down. Though it might be better if Lennox & Houston's songs were separate articles, as a merged article, if it HAS to carry a performer's name, it should be Whitney Houston because she brought the song to prominence. The bulk of info in the article is about Whitney Houston's single release. It seemed malformed to carry the "Annie Lennox song" subtitle, and only have a single line about Annie's original version in the place of what should be an establishing opening paragraph.
 * If Houston hadn't covered the song, there wouldn't have been enough information on Lennox's original "Step by Step" recording to justify it having its own article. It would have been better to establish an article about the "Precious" single and include a mention of "Step by Step" as its B-side. As a matter of fact, that's STILL a good idea, because I was looking for an article on that single and there isn't one!
 * Honestly, if I were as big a fan of Annie Lennox as I am of Whitney Houston, I would feel the same way you do! But because of the weight of info in the article, it seems most appropriate to keep the Whitney Houston subtitle. Could you agree with me? Souldier77 (talk) 20:21, 16 September 2009 (UTC)


 * Thanks for your response. Firstly there's a discussion about these very matters at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Songs/coverversions that you might find interesting and wish to comment on. I'll answer point-by point.
 * Cumbersome maybe, but it is factual and encyclopaedic. If we name songs after their most famous performer what happens if somebody else records the song and it becomes "more famous"? Do we rename the article again? As far as I am concerned song articles are about the songs, even though I know a performer made them "notable."
 * Even more reason to keep both recordings of the same song together to emphasise the differences.
 * I am totally dispassionate regarding the importance of New Kids/Houston/Lennox. However I do have an objection, as in this instance, a song being described as "belonging to" merely because they performed the song, whereas, as Lennox wrote the song it is primarily her song, she has put the words in Houston's mouth, and as there is no co-write mentioned and according to your latest edit Lennox also contributed, probably, new words as well, to Houston's version.
 * Don't get me started on this, please, most song articles are written as fandom, have little or content or references and should be deleted, but I don't nominate anything for deletion these days, a merger is as far as I go!
 * You'll note I have changed the "originally wrote" in the article, it has the same meaning as "originally born in" Regards, --Richhoncho (talk) 21:51, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

— Souldier77 (talk) 23:31, 18 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks for finding Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Songs/coverversions. I was looking for something that could establish a precedent, but it looks like they haven't gotten quite there yet. I think the decision to rename this particular article or not may come down to a case of "I just don't like it." And the only reason I personally don't like it is because Annie's recording wouldn't have satisfied WP:MUSIC to have its own article. Even now, there are more Houston-related links to the article, than Lennox-related. Nonetheless, I restructured the opening paragraph so that it does make sure to tip its hat to Lennox first. The only remaining issue is just the naming convention and what to do since there isn't an established one.
 * Just to make it known and keep things in scope... I like debating the merits of what the best solution would be, but I don't have any personal stake in what happens with the article. When it comes down to it, none of this REALLY matters. It's still just Wikipedia, and we're probably not going to solve the healthcare crisis with it! :-D
 * But is it an insult to the writer's craft to make info on the original recording secondary to its cover? Also, is there any more content on her recording of "Step by Step"? An interview or other source where it's mentioned might provide just enough information to substantiate it as a more solid focus of the article. What do you think?
 * [DISCLAIMER: I would like to clear up that I neither support nor endorse New Kids on the Block. I have enough cheesy, deviant music tastes without adding them to my rap sheet. lol]


 * The gist of my argument is simple, the article about the song, not the singer. The singer is merely ) the WAY the song became notable. As Lennox wrote the song, if anybody "owns" the song, then it is Lennox. Performing a song does not imply any form of ownership or prior claim, which is at odds with the present title. To put another way, you don't rename F1 cars after the winner of the F1? --Richhoncho (talk) 19:30, 21 September 2009 (UTC)


 * I feel the article name is less an indicator of who owns the intellectual property and moreso one of identification. The song would be most easily identified by Houston's name for the purpose of disambiguation. Though Lennox rightfully "owns" the song, it would probably be researched more as a Whitney Houston song. In that practical manner, the song now "belongs" to [AKA is identified by] Houston though she didn't pen a single lyric!
 * I did however find some examples of song articles named after their writers: I'm in Love (Lennon/McCartney song) and Love Me (Leiber/Stoller song).
 * By the same token, I found an article like "Step by Step" where the song is named after the artist who brought it to prominence (though its writer had previously recorded and released it): It's Alright (Pet Shop Boys song).
 * From these examples, it seems like the "de facto" convention might be identifying the article by songwriter or performing artist (which ever is more prominent). In the former examples, the notability of the performers is negligible. In the latter, the notability of the WRITER is. For the convention, I feel articles should be identified by whoever first brings the song to prominence. That would still be encyclopedic while remaining intuitive.
 * I don't think that the title should be changed if someone does a subsequently more popular cover of the song. (I also don't know anything about F1 cars!) :-/
 * — Souldier77 (talk) 00:32, 23 September 2009 (UTC)


 * Well, I asked you to reconsider and you did. I can't ask for more than that. Thanks. --Richhoncho (talk) 16:21, 23 September 2009 (UTC)


 * As a fairly impartial observer, I think the best solution is to place the main article at Step by Step (Annie Lennox song), and place a redirect at Step by Step (Whitney Houston song). Annie Lennox has the strongest factual claim on the song, as author and original performer. The point that people will search for it as a Whitney Houston song is well made, but that is served by the redirect.&mdash;Kww(talk) 16:54, 23 September 2009 (UTC)


 * I didn't mean to comment further, but as Kww has shown the wisdom of Solomon... but I am happy to leave to Souldier77 to execute the move if he agrees. OTOH if Souldier77 does not agree nothing more need be said. --Richhoncho (talk) 18:34, 23 September 2009 (UTC)


 * Truthfully, I still feel that the article should carry Houston's name, but I also realize that it's just a song article! So if it's not enough of a hot button issue that no one speaks on it save for the three of us, I don't mind reversing the move so that the article says Lennox again. If for some reason there's a groundswell of support to the contrary, we'll cross that bridge when we come to it. Thanks again for all your input! — Souldier77 (talk) 22:32, 23 September 2009 (UTC)

Billboard review
Whitney Houston Step By Step (11:50)

Producer: Stephen Lipson

Writer: A. Lennox

Publisher: La Lennoxa/BMG/BMG Songs/ASCAP

Remixers : Junior Vasquez, Soul Solution, Teddy Riley

Arista 32995 (c/o BMG) (12-inch promo)

The spree of releases from the soundtrack to the “The Preacher’s Wife” continues with this uplifting anthem, which will successfully entice clubheads into joining the party. Houston cuts loose with stirring gospel fervor here, urged on to impressive heights by Annie Lennox – who wrote the song and harmonizes during the chorus. A batch of intense and and urgent remixes is offered, ranging from the tribal melodrama of Junior Vasquez’s Arena version to Soul Solutions frenetic Diva mix. Less engaging is Teddy Riley’s thumping hip-hop version, which doesn’t quite match the energy of Houston’s performance.

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