Talk:Stephen Whittle

Clean up
This article needs a really good clean up. There is a lack sourced information and it does not read well. However, I feel that in doing so, it could become very short. Gaia Octavia Agrippa Talk 20:07, 30 July 2012 (UTC)

Notability
Whittle satisfies two of the conditions listed here to satisfy notability for academics. That is, 5 and 7.
 * The person holds or has held a named chair appointment or "Distinguished Professor" appointment at a major institution of higher education and research.
 * He is Professor of Equalities Law (a named chair) at Manchester Metropolitan University (the sixth largest UK university)
 * The person has made substantial impact outside academia in their academic capacity
 * He was president of World Professional Association for Transgender Health and his legal contributions have contributed significantly to the recognition of transgender people.

He is, arguably, the most influential trans person in the UK. Gaia Octavia Agrippa Talk 15:50, 3 September 2012 (UTC)


 * The recent improvements to the page are in the right direction.
 * "Professor of Equalities Law" is a professorship, not a named chair (as far as I can tell). Is there an RS for otherwise?  (The cite on the page to Professor of Equalities Law is a dead link.)
 * Re WPATH presidency: WP:PROF requires the association be a "major academic society." I don't know how to evaluate "major," but WPATH has ceased to be an academic society.  When it was HBIGDA, it a professional association for clinicians and researchers; but as it reconstituted as WPATH (and when Whittle was elected) that tradition stopped, lowering the bar to non-clinicians and non-researchers, and is now primarily an activist organization.  (Which is all well and good, but not supportive of PROF.)
 * Re sig contributions to the recognition of trans folks, that's probably the best potential justification for WP:PROF. However, that claim requires some RS's to describe his contributions in that manner, and not a single source does.  Rather, the RS's all merely call him a "commentator" (as does the mainpage) and include quotes from him about whatever then-current event.
 * As I say, the page has been improved, but there is still no really evidence of meeting WP:PROF.
 * — James Cantor (talk) 16:43, 3 September 2012 (UTC)

Observations on this discussion by Christine Burns (User PlainSense)

I just wanted to chip in here as one of Stephen Whittle's former colleagues (I left Press for Change 5 years ago and have no contact with the subject these days; however the fact of having worked with him for 15 years, and having nominated him for both his OBE and the Human Rights Lawyer of the Year award in 2002, places me as an expert on his contributions. This bio of Whittle, written by me, is based on the successful OBE nomination that I submitted regarding his contributions [] (note that both Whittle and I are patrons of LGBT HIstory Month which hosts this bio)

I want to make it clear that there is no doubt that his contributions should qualify him for notability. If not, then there's an awful lot of entries that deserve to go before his.

The basic thrust is correct, in that the areas of note are (a) as a tenured professor in the largest law school in England and (b) as a significant leader of a political movement over 20 years whose successes led to two major pieces of rights legislation affecting thousands of people.

On the first point, the staff list of his department is here [] and you will note that the term 'Professor' as used in a British university has a specific meaning quite different to that in US/Canadian institutions. It is a mark of academic seniority. You'll see the other departmental staff are listed as lecturers and senior lecturers. Aside from the head of department, Whittle is the most senior of the teaching staff.

On the campaigning side I think the article is weak because it hasn't really captured the seminal contribution made by the subject in partnership with colleagues like myself. If you look at the Talk page for Press for Change then you'll see that I've offered editors interested in developing that entry a concise summary of what that overall team achievement amounted to. The biography here, in contrast, seems to have got sidetracked into soft topics, so I can understand the concern. Obviously as someone once close to the subject it is not for me to rewrite it.

One thing I would take issue with is the claim that Whittle is 'arguably the most influential trans person in the UK'.

There is no doubt that historically his work in specific areas HAS been immensely influential. Within the Press for Change team, for instance, we had immense regard for his legal expertise ... and so did the UK government. Some of his specific actions have also created enduring legal precedent. As the 'X' in the case of XY&Z vs UK in the European Court of Human Rights Whittle advanced the court's thinking in a significant way which laid the foundations for the progression of judicial thinking. To take a case to the world's highest Human Rights court on such a subject as the parental rights of transsexual people is a seminal contribution. Whittle's legal arguments (along with the arguments of his colleagues, including myself) also had a determinative effect on the shape of the Gender Recognition Bill brought to Parliament by the UK government in 2003/4.

So, nobody would argue that he is AMONG the most influential trans people to have ever lived and campaigned in the UK. That much can be supported by citations based on the Press for Change history that I've referred to above.

However, I would draw the line at saying he is arguably the MOST influential trans person in the UK today. One of the products of our collective success is that there is now a generation of many many more activists today than there ever were five years ago. Those activists have a range of influence. Several of them are now established as regular columnists on national newspapers. One has launched a global magazine. One gave a seminal contribution to the Leveson Enquiry. Several are involved in the most active current campaign organisation, such as Trans Media Watch. I continue to have a significant influence over the development of better heatlhcare for this community.

Several of these influential trans people are now listed in the Independent on Sunday's annual Pink List of the most influential LGBT people in the country, whereas Whittle is nowadays 'off list' as a national treasure.

The title 'most influential' would have been contentious ten years ago, as it would have offended my colleagues all working equally hard and changing things. Nowadays, it just sounds silly. So, please, whilst it is vital to recognise the importance of this man and his continuing influence as a elder statesman of the trans rights movement, let's not go overboard and do a disservice to the many more who could also be argued to now have immense influence. Stick to "one of" and you should have no difficulty producing cogent citations.

I hope that's helpful, Christine Burns Plainsense (talk) 18:10, 15 September 2012 (UTC)


 * Yep, that stuck out for me, too. Lawrence18uk (talk) 07:33, 16 April 2024 (UTC)

Repairing broken links
It is probable that some of the broken links in this biography will be caused by the fact that the original Press for Change web site (a major reference library) was unfortunately deleted and has had to be rebuilt anew. Fortunately the British Library archived snapshots of the original site on several occasions. The links can therefore be restored by accessing the equivalent page in one of the archived copies at http://www.webarchive.org.uk/ukwa/target/116247/source/subject.

Plainsense (talk) 19:06, 11 March 2013 (UTC)