Talk:Steppenwolf (band)

Terms
This article contains several definitions like 'current' or 'today'. What do they mean?

Untitled
In the song "Don't Stand On The Grass, Sam" is it true that "Sam" is a reference to "Uncle Sam" ? Bjardis 13:04, 5 February 2006 (UTC)
 * In "Don't Step On The Grass, Sam", yes, and grass does not refer to a lawn here, either. --Matthead 11:49, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

For the birds
Can somebody clarify? Is it Sparrow, The Sparrow, or The Sparrows? Canadian Encyclopedia says Sparrow... Trekphiler 03:11, 18 December 2006 (UTC)🇨🇦

First it was Jack London & the Sparrows, then The Sparrows, and finally, The Sparrow before becoming Steppenwolf.Lars951 20:58, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
 * In Europe, it was "John Kay and the Sparrow".

(Sorry, no tilde available on this keyboard.) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.220.95.169 (talk) 21:56, 14 January 2014 (UTC)

Any chance the lineup tables will be finished? They don't currently show the years. --kingboyk 22:17, 28 January 2007 (UTC)


 * On the Early Steppenwolf album the group is identified as simply Sparrow. Doesn't Wikipedia have a policy that states names used on "official" releases should be the name used in wiki articles? I don't doubt the progression of names for the band, but perhaps the progression should at least be mentioned in some manner in the article. Thoughts?THX1136 (talk) 14:37, 27 August 2014 (UTC)

Background
this paragraph reads atrociously, it needs to be re worded. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.233.88.228 (talk) 21:54, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Membership
Nick St. Nicholas created Steppenwolf, as in hired everyone including John Kay, presented to the Record Label and got the Record deal, hired the manager and the agent and promoted Steppenwolf. The creation of Steppenwolf was during the time of The Sparrows/The Sparrow https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_Steppenwolf and TIME after Jack London absconded with the funds and left the group in debt. This Wikipedia work looks like John Kay had people write it. There is no history of drug abuse nor are there any citations substantiating the claim. Nick St. Nicholas is an owner of Steppenwolf still now in 2015 so the language of "fake" Steppenwolf bands, which has no, citations is also nonfactual. John Kay is not one of the song writers of Magic Carpet Ride written by Rushton Moreve, Born To Be Wild written by Dennis Edmonton, nor the Nick St. Nicholas penned hit It's Never Too Late. Further the other songs they show multiple writers that include Kay. John Kay coerced his name onto those tracks by refusing to sing if he did not receive a song writing credit. Wikipedia would be wise to stay out of this litigation. John Kay's False Statements put Wikipedia in a troubled spot by representing it as factual. Further by permitting Wiki editors to assassinate the Character of Nick St. Nicholas. https://sinistersaladmusikal.files.wordpress.com/2011/04/100_2876.jpg

Nick St. Nicholas won this law suit at the 9th Circuit Court - http://law.justia.com/cases/federal/appellate-courts/F3/236/487/511121/ FACTS AND PROCEDURAL HISTORY

This case raises the issue of whether a contract between the parties or section 32(1) (a) of the Lanham Trade-Mark Act, 15 U.S.C. 1114(1) (a) ("Lanham Act"), bars Nicholas Kassbaum ("Kassbaum"), a former member of the rock band "Steppenwolf," from referring to himself in promotional materials for a new band as "formerly of Steppenwolf," an "original member of Steppenwolf," or an "original founding member of Steppenwolf."

In 1967, John Kay, Jerry Edmonton, Michael Monarch and Goldie McJohn formed a musical band called "Steppenwolf." In 1968, Nicholas Kassbaum, who is professionally known as "Nick St. Nicholas," joined Steppenwolf as a bass player. That year, the band members entered into a partnership agreement whereby the members became co-equal partners and owners in Steppenwolf, and agreed to share equally the band's expenses and income. Also in 1968, the band members signed a recording agreement with Dunhill Records both as partners and as Steppenwolf band members.

From late 1968 until late April 1970, Steppenwolf, with Kassbaum as its bass player, toured the world in concerts and recorded Steppenwolf 's well-received music. Kassbaum appeared prominently on Steppenwolf record album covers and authored Steppenwolf compositions. In 1971, John Kay, who had asserted control over Steppenwolf, excluded Kassbaum from the band.

The district court granted SPI and SI's motion for summary judgment on Kassbaum's complaint for declaratory relief, granted SPI's counterclaim for breach of contract, dismissed Kassbaum's complaint for declaratory relief, and granted SPI and SI's request for a permanent injunction forbidding Kassbaum from using the designations "Formerly of Steppenwolf," "Original Member of Steppenwolf " and "Original Founding Member of Steppenwolf," in promotional materials.

Kassbaum appeals, contending that the district court erred. We agree, and we reverse and remand.3  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 73.170.157.98 (talk) 04:31, 27 December 2015 (UTC)

The actual controlling members before the lawsuits of the late 70s were Kay, Monarch, Moreve, McJohn, Edmonton, and St. Nicholas. Everyone else was employed and only a member for promotional and creative purposes. The "Big 6" were partners, with St. Nicholas replacing Moreve after he left. I don't know how to specify this in the infobox.Lars951 20:56, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

Merger proposal
While assessing album articles for WP:ALBUMS, I came upon the article 20th Century Masters - The Millennium Collection: The Best of Steppenwolf. This article is at a sub-stub status, lacking sufficient information for standalone status. According to WP:MUSIC, "Album articles with little more than a track listing may be more appropriately merged into the artist's main article, space permitting." This album article doesn't even have that. Accordingly, I propose to merge the contents into the parent article. --Moonriddengirl (talk) 00:54, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Support per nom. --Brewcrewer 03:12, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
 * The article was a little thin, but I've added a lot more information, and now the article has a LOT more info compared to most of the other "Millennium Collection" articles on wikipedia, so I think it should stay separate, especially since more information is forthcoming in the way of reviews, chronology, etc. I primarily started the page with an eye toward expanding it... Lars951 18:13, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
 * The article has sufficient information now to survive, but it does need secondary sourcing. Once reviews are added, I'm sure it will satisfy this. :) --Moonriddengirl (talk) 18:40, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Banali2.jpg
Image:Banali2.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 20:20, 22 December 2007 (UTC)

who cares? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.100.228.49 (talk) 20:34, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Steppenwolf.jpg
Image:Steppenwolf.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 06:27, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

Citations & References
See Footnotes for an explanation of how to generate footnotes using the  tags Nhl4hamilton (talk) 06:41, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

Canadian band?
Reading the group's convoluted history, it seems clear that The Sparrows were a Canadian band from Toronto comprised of Canadians and Germans who had immigrated to Canada, notably German John Kay (born Joachim Fritz Krauledat). Whereas once the Sparrows move to Canada and take on American musicians, especially crucial member Michael Monarch, they become a primarily American band. I think it is a stretch to consider Steppenwolf a Canadian band, if anything they are more German-American than Canadian-American. That's why they are called STEPPENWOLF, which is a reference to the Herman Hesse novel. Lots of Canadian bands move to the US to pursue their career, but this is not the case with Steppenwolf, which is comprised of American, German, and Canadian members and cultural influences. Walterego (talk) 17:38, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

Hard rock pioneers
The band has often, and rightfully, been singled out as one of the prime originators of what we know as hard rock/heavy metal (together with Purple, Zep, Sabbath et al). Should be pointed out in the lead of the article, I'm sure there's good sources floating around for it and few serious hard rock fans would dispute the claim. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.254.159.35 (talk) 12:54, 13 April 2011 (UTC)


 * I question the application of heavy metal to Steppenwolf. I have most of their albums and, at most, they are pop and hard rock. I guess it comes down to what differentiates hard rock and metal. Also, with the Who predating Steppenwolf I'm not sure about the 'Wolf being one of the pioneers of hard rock. They definitely played hard rock. Again, probably a question of semantics. Thoughts?THX1136 (talk) 14:50, 27 August 2014 (UTC)


 * One person's 'hard rock' is another person's 'heavy metal.' I would say they were one of the pioneers.  They just didn't clobber on the guitar overdubs that other bands did.  In-concert, they were much louder/thicker than on-record.  Saw them many times. 104.169.34.62 (talk) 22:12, 16 June 2017 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the input. I would be good with "one of the pioneers" also. THX1136 (talk) 01:33, 27 July 2018 (UTC)

Membership again
I'm astonished that we still don't have the original band members listed in the "Band members" section. Even more surprising, I can't find an independent, reliable source that lists them. Surely someone like Rolling Stone must have published a list at some time, but I can't find it. Meanwhile I'm going to expand the list using the source we have, which is obviously not independent but is the best we can do for now. Kendall-K1 (talk) 02:57, 17 January 2017 (UTC)

substantiate the bunny ears
St. Nicholas "had appeared in nothing but rabbit ears and a jock strap at the Fillmore East in April '69"

Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous.

There is no citation for this statement. St. Nicholas has (unsurprisingly) hotly denied it for decades. My first suggestion would be to remove it entirely as libelous and furthering of slander. At the very least, the burden of proof should be redirected back to Kay, and described only as "a persistent urban myth" or similar, possibly tied more directly to Kay's long-standing campaign to turn his bandmates retroactively into contract musicians, as the article presently dances around. Weeb Dingle (talk) 23:00, 1 February 2017 (UTC)


 * I added a source, but I don't know how reliable it is. Do you have a source that says St. Nicholas denies the story? If so I agree this should either be taken out or at least qualified a bit more. Kendall-K1 (talk) 00:59, 2 February 2017 (UTC)


 * Thanks for that! The recalling of the supposed incident in Kay's published biography has always struck me as awkward, like a product plug forced into a stream-of-consciousness narrative. A couple of years ago, Nick St. Nicholas had a quotation from NSN disputing the tale, but that's gone. I will trawl Revisions for more data. Weeb Dingle (talk) 19:33, 4 February 2017 (UTC)
 * I stand partially corrected. I remember St. Nicholas taking that on, but that may have been in an interview to a local paper after he moved to Minneapolis. The quotation I mentioned was actually from Goldy McJohn, added to Nick St. Nicholas late 2007. The fuehrer (Kay) fired him [for] wearing dresses in Steppenwolf with that bleached blonde hair, being out of tune at gigs ... lots of reasons. I liked the bunny ears, but John made such a stink about it at the Fillmore East, you'd think he was in charge. Everyone else was on acid in the audience and this great big guy got up and told Kay to let Nick tune up and everybody cheered. Stealing John Kay's limelight has and always will be his modis operandi, in other words. It was still there June 2015; no reason I can find for its removal. Something like this would at least mitigate the one-sided contentiousness. Weeb Dingle (talk) 19:48, 4 February 2017 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I saw that quote. It stops short of saying Nick denies the story, but does point out that the bunny ears incident (if it ever happened) was not the main reason for Nick's ouster. Kendall-K1 (talk) 20:52, 4 February 2017 (UTC)

the "lead vocalist" thing
Look, I am a huge John Kay fan. However, contrary to the (here we go again) long-standing myth, he DID NOT take the lead on all songs. And describing those other singers as "backing vocals" -- as throughout the Discography -- is demeaning at best.

Right off the top of my head: "28" "Faster Than the Speed of Life" "Don't Step On the Grass, Sam" "Lovely Meter" "She'll Be Better" "What Would You Do" "Who Needs Ya" "I'm Asking" "Jaded Strumpet" -- there's probably more. Weeb Dingle (talk) 23:13, 1 February 2017 (UTC)
 * While Kay sang lead on appx 90% of the material, Edmonton should also be listed as lead singer - or perhaps Kay and Edmonton should both just be listed as "vocals."104.169.34.62 (talk) 22:07, 16 June 2017 (UTC)

that's George Biondo in the main photo - easily recognized
Whatever source states otherwise is wrong. I saw the band many times - that's Biondo. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 104.169.27.207 (talk) 03:42, 6 June 2017 (UTC)
 * Which one is Biondo? Kendall-K1 (talk) 05:30, 6 June 2017 (UTC)
 * far-right — Preceding unsigned comment added by 104.169.34.62 (talk) 22:19, 16 June 2017 (UTC)
 * This was some old vandalism that only got part-way reverted. I have fixed it. Thanks for noticing this. Kendall-K1 (talk) 02:01, 17 June 2017 (UTC)

death dates
Do we really need death dates in the list of band members? If we're going to add death dates, shouldn't we also have birth dates? This is not the newspaper. Kendall-K1 (talk) 23:47, 6 August 2017 (UTC)

SPI
Getting as strong SP vibe. We clearly need PP.Slatersteven (talk) 19:04, 28 December 2017 (UTC)