Talk:Stereotypes of African Americans/Archive 1

Untitled
Hello. This page is directly copied/pasted from Ethnic stereotypes in American media. I created it because I believed this subtopic deserves its own focused page. Also, I want this new article to be able to explore racial stereotyping in all areas of public consciousness, not confined to just "media." Since it's basically a direct copy/paste it is obviously in need of extensive editing to make it an independent article, so please contribute. Thanks! --Drenched 19:44, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

Negative Images of Blacks
What is a negative image? The idea of an image being positive or negative is a value judgement that is purely subjective. Doesn't belong on wikipedia. The sources are still important, and we can say a person wrote about percieving an image as negative. But the way the article reads now, it makes value judgements like that violent people are worse than nonviolent people. Not a fact!-ShadowyCabal 18:48, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
 * I am not actively editing this page and am not responsible for the contents, but I think the statistics/examples given in that section are decent. I think there are pretty widespread ideas of what is negative in our society; i.e. homicide is negative, incarceration is negative, profanity is negative, violence is negative. Not much controversy there.  You could argue that's just my personal opinion or the opinion of the person who wrote the content, but it's pretty safe to say that these "value judgements" are the judgements of American society in general.  Yes, judgements are subjective, but a lot of things in life are subjective and can be written about in a scholarly and encyclopedic way, or else articles about any ideal or abstract concept ever would not exist. And clearly, they do exist.  Lots of articles; in good repute too.  --Drenched 00:58, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
 * I don't think any of your examples are neccesarilly negative. Homocide can be positive in the right context.  And I know a lot of Blacks that are proud of their use of profanity and violence.  And those are just extreme examples.  Is eating fried chicken negative? It's widely considered unhealthy.  What about having a large penis?  That could go either way, really.  Here's one, how about liking diamonds?  Is materialism negative?  See my point?  As for it's use in scholarly work:  I think its important for a scholar to be a little subjective.  But this shit doesn't belong on wikipedia as such. ShadowyCabal 02:00, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Of course there are many different counterculture viewpoints and ways of interpreting various aspects of life. I am talking about "negative" from a mainstream-American-society perspective, in the way that encyclopedias are mainstream general sources of knowledge.  From this majority mainstream perspective, profanity, incarceration, and violence are seen as being negative.  But look, if the title of the section bothers you because of its subjectivity, I am not opposed to changing it.  The statistical content remains the same as actual and objective trends in American media, and the presence of these trends deserves to be acknowledged in this encyclopedic body of knowledge.  I'll change the title of the section to make it more objective.  --Drenched 03:45, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Much better. ShadowyCabal 11:28, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

Magic Negroe
Do we agree that media examples should remain out of this particular article? - ShadowyCabal 00:56, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

This "article" is a disgrace!
Well intended as its creation may have been, this "article" has simply become a magnet for cruft from anonymous contributors, full of unsubstantiated claims and "popular" stereotypes. It represents violations of WP:NPOV and WP:OR at their worst, and has no encyclopedic value whatsoever. &mdash;141.156.240.102 (talk|contribs) 20:15, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I agree and I've nominated it for deletion. --Ezeu 20:47, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Since there is an AfD in progress, I blanked the non-NPOV, unsourced and OR lists (I didn't delete them because of the anti-vandal bots) ... if it's cut down to a stub, then maybe it will stop attracting cruft. --72.75.105.165 04:35, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

Listcruft
During the AfD discussions for this article, one of the biggest problems was the unsourced, Original Research list of examples ... it was just a cruft-magnet and the source of constant vandalism and reverts ... since it was still being debated, I just used   to make a comment out of the lists, because i didn't want to attract the anti-vandal bot, and I thought that it could be deleted later.

Well, it's been restored twice by the simple (uncommented) edit of blanking two lines (thereby not attracting any attenting for a large edit change) ... since it's so easy to restore, I have deleted it completely ... I know that this will not stop someone from restoring it from an earlier version, but if these newbie editors don't bother reading this talk page first, then I doubt that they are smart enough to be able to restore it without damaging intervening edits. &mdash; 20:39, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

Eldridge Cleaver's Soul on Ice
Sometime around 1968, EC rolled out his own version of the stock black stereotypes: the super masculine menial, etc., etc. These should be included here. If no one else does it, I suppose I'll get around to it sometime; I have the book around here somewhere.... As well, I have a list I copied from a source somewhere that dates back to about 1973 or so -- my handwritten list. (Just came across it the other day. Now, where'd I put it?)  The source is likely considerably older than that. I'll dig that up, too, and present it here. Again, in order to be an article, rather than a glorified list, this piece desperately needs historical, social and political context. Urthogie, I haven't answered your question because it's just too obvious. And if you don't understand how racism and white supremacy shaped black stereotypes, I don't think I feel like explaining it to you. You'll just have to read the article once it's (hopefully) properly developed, or take the initiative and find out on your own. Or, maybe Brian has the patience/inclination; I, frankly, have neither. deeceevoice 11:01, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

Some sources/references. Also, gender stereotypes.
I'm not sure these links will work because you might have to be subscribed to JSTOR, but I just did a quick search of articles so that someone can follow up if they want to spearhead de-crufting the article & including scholarly content. In case the links don't work I included the titles/authors so you can look it up other ways. I haven't actually read the articles but they looked promising.
 * Stereotypical Strategies: Black Film Aesthetics, Spectator Positioning, and Self-Directed Stereotypes in "Hollywood Shuffle" and "I'm Gonna Git You Sucka" by Harriet Margolis. http://links.jstor.org/sici?sici=0009-7101%28199921%2938%3A3%3C50%3ASSBFAS%3E2.0.CO%3B2-7
 * Public Perceptions of Race and Crime: The Role of Racial Stereotypes by Jon Hurwitz; Mark Peffley. Stable URL: http://links.jstor.org/sici?sici=0092-5853%28199704%2941%3A2%3C375%3APPORAC%3E2.0.CO%3B2-F
 * Metastereotypes: Blacks' Perceptions of Whites' Stereotypes of Blacks by Lee Sigelman; Steven A. Tuch. http://links.jstor.org/sici?sici=0033-362X%28199721%2961%3A1%3C87%3AMBPOWS%3E2.0.CO%3B2-A
 * The Ball Curve: Calculated Racism and the Stereotype of African American Men by Ronald E. Hall. http://links.jstor.org/sici?sici=0021-9347%28200109%2932%3A1%3C104%3ATBCCRA%3E2.0.CO%3B2-I
 * Racial Stereotypes and Whites' Political Views of Blacks in the Context of Welfare and Crime by Mark Peffley; Jon Hurwitz; Paul M. Sniderman. http://links.jstor.org/sici?sici=0092-5853%28199701%2941%3A1%3C30%3ARSAWPV%3E2.0.CO%3B2-Z
 * Stripping Away Myths: Improving the Lot of African Americans by Changing The American Racial Stereotype. http://links.jstor.org/sici?sici=1077-3711%28199621%290%3A11%3C110%3ASAMITL%3E2.0.CO%3B2-H

I hope those links are helpful. Also, I think there ought to be some mention of gender-specific stereotypes of African Americans. I remember learning about stereotyping of African American matriarchs in particular...that they were perceived as being either the matronly asexual woman who raises the White family (e.g. Gone with the Wind), or an overbearing single mother who is abusive or overly aggressive with her children, & there were a few more that I learned about but don't remember. This isn't my area of expertise & I'm sure there's a lot more that could be said about that subject, but I'm just throwing the idea out there. --Drenched 23:50, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

Suggestions
Topics that should be covered, mentioned, or referenced:
 * Sambo
 * Uncle Tom
 * Blackface and minstrel shows
 * The film Bamboolzed
 * Jim in Mark Twain's Huckleberry Finn
 * Ralph Ellison's Invisible Man
 * Modern hip-hop and "gangsta" culture and associated stereotypes

The article should be organized in a chronological approach, covering different historical stereotypes and ending with today.

- Emiellaiendiay 21:51, 27 January 2007 (UTC)


 * I would also suggest covering stereotypes as they apply to black women,too. There's more than the "mammy stereotype." I would say nowadays women have to deal with the "Sapphire" stereotype and the stereotypes of having questionable morals, as recently shown with the negative comments that radio commentator Don Imus recently made against the Rutgers Women's basketball teams. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.215.186.11 (talk • contribs) 02:27, 11 April 2007


 * Good point. I agree. — Emiellaiendiay 02:30, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

Major issues with this page
Get rid of the section Stereotypes: Fact or Fiction it seems to compare blacks to whites for the purpose of saying that black stereotypes aren't true. I toatally agree with this section but this page isnt the right place to put this. Please rename it or send it to the ethnic stereotype page.

Here is the section though

"Most black people are not poor and most of America's poor people are not black. On TV Blacks are shown as poor in numbers twice as high as reality. Blacks actually account for 29% of America’s poor, though most would guess this is 50%. [4] Because blacks tend to be stereotyped as criminal, most are surprised to learn that African American youth are significantly less likely to use tobacco, alcohol or drugs than whites or Hispanics. [5] Although blacks are stereotyped as dirty, African Americans are more concerned about cleanliness than whites.[6] Blacks spend more money on cleaning supplies and comparable amounts on personal care products as whites. [7] Black women engage in more feminine hygiene practices than whites. [8] " —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.243.47.79 (talk) 03:09, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

Extremely POV
Talking about this paragraph at the bottom of the page:

"According to Lawrence Grossman, former president of CBS News and PBS, TV newscasts "disproportionately show African-Americans under arrest, living in slums, on welfare, and in need of help from the community." [21] African-Americans are misrepresented for several reasons. Although FBI statistics show that most violent crimes involve others of same race, there is a common misperception that black-on-white crimes are more common. [22] Black-on-white crimes are over-represented on news shows because the majority audience can better identify with white victim. Emphasis on deviance generates higher ratings for TV networks by playing on people's fears. However, these images of blacks (and whites) on TV newscasts do not represent reality and negatively impact the way we think about race and race relations."

Extremely POV toward the end, especially the use of "we". It needs to be changed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Heatsketch (talk • contribs) 20:45, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

Facts are misleading
On one section it says blacks only make up 29% of americans poor. Thats a lot considering they are only 12% of the population. It also says black youth are less involved with tobacco and drugs and violence than whites and latinos, again its taking 2 races combinding them one of which makes 77% of the United states population and saying oh look they are more violent. Its going to be lower nationaly becuase blacks are the minority. 1 in 3 black males between 18 and 25 are in jail at any given moment. Thats not in the article. You cannot be biased. Look at the facts. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.33.169.36 (talk) 11:22, 4 January 2008 (UTC)
 * It is does not say either. The source does not and it does not imply that it combines the statistics. It would say combined. the statistic you use is from the early 90's. Please understandYVNP (talk) 07:04, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

Fears about Women
"Where the white women at?" has a deeper cultural context than the average viewer might assume. I'm surprised there's nothing in here that speaks of the pervasive fear white people had (and some, crazily enough, still have!) of black men relating to their white women. A hilariously absurd stereotype that has been with us since the beginning of American racism against African Americans (an all-consuming lust for white women? Yeeaah...)  Jachra (talk) 08:43, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

African Americans?
I don't think that this is really the correct term. What about French, British, German, Swedish, etc. people with black skin? Wouldn't "negro" be better, similar to how most people with white skin are "Caucasian"? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 144.173.6.67 (talk) 13:19, 19 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I respectfully disagree. As Emiellaiendiay pointed out above, the article discusses stereotypes specific to the U.S. It should either be expanded to discuss stereotypes of people of African origin in the world in general, or the title should be changed to "Stereotypes of African-Americans" or "Stereotypes of blacks in the United States" or something like that. Vargher (talk) 00:33, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
 * In that case, "black stereotypes" shouldn't redirect to this page, as it does at the moment.

Pornography
I agree with smokizzy. The section titled pornography was "unencyclopedic" it was obviously written by a an angry spiteful individual and is not really in my opinion a common stereotype. I though the introduction paragraph to this section really exposed the motives of the author too. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Informatron (talk • contribs) 21:44, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

Removed text (media portrayal/image)
I've removed this text from the article: "These crimes are over-represented on news shows because the majority audience can better identify with white victim. Emphasis on deviance generates higher ratings for TV networks by playing on people's fears. However, these images of black (and white) people on TV newscasts do not represent reality and negatively impact the way we think about race and race relations."

While this may be true, Wikipedia is descriptive, not prescriptive, and is not a publisher of oroginal thought. For the first half, a controversial argument about the way the media works needs a reliable source, and for the second, Wikipedia shouldn't tell the reader what to do. I do appreciate that a lot of valuable, hard work has gone into this article, so thank you. Drum guy (talk) 00:08, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

Name change to Stereotypes of black people
I plan to (soon) move the page to Stereotypes of black people. I think it's more formal (a better tone), and less dehumanising i.e. saying the only characteristic of the blacks is being black.

I should do it in about a week or so if everyone's happy with the idea :)

Thanks very much, Drum guy (talk) 23:13, 4 March 2008 (UTC)


 * I think the article should be moved back to Stereotypes of African Americans, since that's what it's about. Somebody moved it last year, even though the lede says it's about "stereotypes of Americans of African descent present in American culture" — in other words, stereotypes of African-Americans. — Malik Shabazz (talk · contribs) 23:54, 4 March 2008 (UTC)


 * If we're aiming to make it about all black people, then Stereotypes of black people would be more appropriate. It's unlikely that, at the moment, we'll have enough contribution to write articles about stereotypes of every main culture/race/nationality/etc. so I think we should start with an article on black people, and when there's enough different parts in it, split it into different articles, like Stereotypes of African Americans. That is just what I think ;)


 * It's a tricky one, as the article is quite specialised anyway. Maybe rename it Stereotypes of black people, but cut some of the text that's specialised about American stereotypes of black people/Africans/African Americans and put it into Stereotypes of African Americans? Just literally cut and paste some of the text out? How does that sound? Drum guy (talk) 23:49, 15 March 2008 (UTC)


 * I've changed the name now, as I think that the change to Stereotypes of black people makes complete sense as meaning the same thing as Stereotypes of blacks but saying it in a nicer way. Changing to Stereotypes of African Americans would, I'm sure, like some more discussion, as it affects the content of the article. Thanks very much, Drum guy (talk) 16:42, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

Name change
I see that it's been changed from "African-Americans" to "blacks." I don't think this is representative of the article, which discusses only America, and not blacks worldwide. — Emiellaiendiay 16:10, 28 May 2007 (UTC)
 * I concur. However, this only reflects the existence of en:Wiki's basic problem (in my understanding, at least): it's too Anglocentric. Articles tend to focus on the U.S. and, less so, on the UK, Australia and perhaps Canada, while continental Europe, Asia, Africa and Latin America are usually marginalized. Vargher (talk) 00:29, 14 March 2008 (UTC)


 * I agree that African American is more appropriate for this article, as the focus is on American blacks of African descent. (Typically termed "African American," for better or for worse!) --Monnica Williams (talk) 22:56, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

Abysmally uninformed and uninformative list cruft
This article is little more than, as someone stated earlier, "list cruft." How the hell can there be any kind of credible article on this subject without a discussion of racism and white supremacy? Answer: ain't no way.

Without some sort of cultural and historical context and development, this article is worthless and meaningless and little more than just another article on wikipedia that will become a convenient and inviting spot for racist mischief makers and jerks to once again empty their stinking, cesspool-like minds onto another web page. deeceevoice 16:03, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems like its slavery that needs to be discussed, not the larger ideologies of racism and white supremacy-- specifically slavery is what should be added to the article. Many of the major stereotypes/archetypes of blacks in America were developed under slavery.  The sambo stereotype developed out of white masters cowing submissive black slaves.  The article also needs information on the "trickster" stereotype. (Unsigned post.)


 * Actually, the trickster figure is an element of black folklore. It is not a stereotype.  There are archetypical figures in black/African-American culture, though, like the "bad" nigger/Stagga Lee.  The trickster is one of those (and, of course, it is African in origin).deeceevoice 11:01, 4 February 2007 (UTC)


 * DCV, aside from slavery, how has racism/white supremacism played in to these stereotypes?--Urthogie 16:41, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
 * The "darky" stereotypes of the minstrel show age were child's play compared to the deplorable "coon" stereotypes of the Reconstruction period and later. Slavery gave us the happy, musical, stupid slave and the happy, musical, and stupid dandy (Nothern black); Reconstruction gave us the hard-drinking, dice-playing, razor-wielding sociopath. Now, you could argue (and scholars have) that the later stereotype only emerged because whites had lost the institution of slavery with which to control blacks, but I think supremacy is the larger issue here, not just slavery. I think Deeceevoice is on the money here. — Brian 22:37, 1 February 2007 (UTC)


 * How did supremacy cause the coon stereotype to exist? Sound like a notable opinion if we could find it, but how exactly does the reasoning go?  And what Reliable Sources have actually offered this view?--Urthogie 23:41, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
 * What would be the alternate view of how that stereotype came about? At any rate, I've got a ton of notes on coon songs, and I plan to put my efforts into writing that article, rather than this one. — Brian 02:46, 2 February 2007 (UTC)


 * See http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=African-American_stereotypes&oldid=93213146 for the crufty lists that let to the most recent AfD ... at least it's not the OR magnet it used to be.


 * I also think that the recent renaming was a mistake ... see Ethnic stereotypes in American media for the parent article and the siblings created at the same time with corresponding names ... people should be more dilligent in their research before making such changes, like checking "What links here" first. --141.156.216.67 23:40, 1 February 2007 (UTC)


 * I agree that it is vitally important to provide some background on the cause and function of stereotypes about American blacks. I had written a section called "Facts about black stereotypes" that was deleted some time ago, without discussion.  I have revised this material and reposted it. It is well-referenced and applicable. I invite your comments and additions! --Monnica Williams (talk) 23:04, 1 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Your text was removed because it was too general for this article. It would, however, probably be a good addition to Stereotype, with a link or "See also" from here. (I've left a similar note on your talk page.) --Ckatz chat spy  23:13, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

Misleading information
"Most black people are not poor and most of America's poor people are not black. On TV Blacks are shown as poor in numbers twice as high as reality. Blacks actually account for 29% of America’s poor, though most would guess this is 50%. [4] Because blacks tend to be stereotyped as criminal, most are surprised to learn that African American youth are significantly less likely to use tobacco, alcohol or drugs than whites or Hispanics. [5] Although blacks are stereotyped as dirty, African Americans are more concerned about cleanliness than whites.[6] Blacks spend more money on cleaning supplies and comparable amounts on personal care products as whites. [7] Black women engage in more feminine hygiene practices than whites. [8] "

This section is full of misleading statistics.. like yeah they make up 29% of America's poor, but "In current demographics, according to 2005 U.S. Census figures, some 39.9 million African Americans live in the United States, comprising 13.8 percent of the total population." (from the article titled African Americans)

Also it says blacks are less likely to catch a drug charge or smoke or drink (while referencing criminality), but it doesn't include violent crime statistics

Please remove this section, as it is detrimental to any kind of reality —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.116.132.101 (talk) 23:29, 13 December 2007 (UTC)


 * What's funny is they don't include statistics on the likelihood of blacks to do crime. Not that I believe black crime stereotypes, though. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.234.210.28 (talk) 19:28, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, this section is terrible. Crime, according to most people is not smoking a cigarette and drinking a beer. What about the statistic that 75-odd percent of gun crime in London is carried out by 'members of the African/Caribbean community'? See the 'Crime and Race' page for that. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 138.38.217.149 (talk) 13:54, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

NPOV
This article has a way too positive slant. Should be edit to conform with the NPOV requirement. 83.108.185.204 (talk) 21:45, 18 May 2008 (UTC)
 * This article is a report of what reliable sources have published about this topic. What specifically makes you feel that it 'has a way too positive slant'? TheRedPenOfDoom (talk) 22:56, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

WP:COATRACK should be renamed "Negative stereotypes of black people"
The article also completely ignores the whole penis size issue. It doesn't address if this is a true stereotype or not. The article doesn't address any other supposed positive stereotypes. This is a WP:COATRACK and should be renamed "Negative stereotypes of black people" as there are many positive stereotypes of black people like large penis, good at music, good at dancing, physical abilities, social skills, etc. This  maybe should be renamed "Negative stereotypes of Africans" as a "black person" also can refer to Australian aboriginee William Ortiz (talk) 09:25, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Those stereptypes were originally discussed but they were considered original research. It will take actual research to prove they are stereotypes.YVNP (talk) 13:50, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

'Two times'
I changed 'two times more likely' to 'twice as likely' in the 'The News Media: Criminal Stereotyping' section. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.132.9.163 (talk) 21:54, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

This Article Contains Many Red Herrings
The section which tries to discredit the stereotypes is hugely POV, the amount of money Negroes/Blacks/Coloreds/African Americans spend on cleaning supplies is a complete red herring. A white man who works in an office building may only use one block of soap per month but he will still be cleaner than a garbage collecting Negro/Black man/Colored man/African American who uses 2 or 3 or 4! The same goes with Negresses/Black women/Colored women/African American women, the amount of makeup some of them put on their faces no wonder they buy more cleaning supplies to get it off! The amount of money spent is completely irrelevant. I will therefore remove it from the article. --Doctor Bojangles (talk) 06:46, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

Being Bold
I moved the article to Stereotypes of Black Americans. That is the people about whom the article speaks. --Doctor Bojangles (talk) 06:55, 4 June 2008 (UTC)


 * As I wrote at Talk:African American, "African American" is the standard terminology used in the names of hundreds of Wikipedia articles and categories. In fact, I think it was part of the name of this article until somebody decided to move it to "black people". For reasons of consistency, I think it should be moved to Stereotypes of African Americans. — Malik Shabazz (talk · contribs) 15:28, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

Race and Sports
This issue is important but covered very little ion the article. Why does it have only one paragraph?YVNP (talk) 07:00, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Quote with no substance
"A mug shot of a black defendant is four times more likely to appear in a local television news report than of a white defendant."

when blacks commit the majority of crimes in america what do you excpect. Im sure you beleive me but will cite socio-economical reasons for their crime rate. please take your statment off it just makes you look ignant yo. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 72.72.59.106 (talk) 03:27, 8 April 2007 (UTC).


 * Not as "ignant" as you appear to be ("excpect", "beleive", "statment" ... ever heard of a spell-checker?) And maybe you should also learn how to read ... that statement is clearly cited: There is no need to remove a WP:RS citation simply because "socio-economical reasons for their crime rate" also exist ... the point is that black defendants are disproportionately portrayed in media coverage, and that is a well documented fact. &mdash; 04:41, 8 April 2007 (UTC)
 * "Disproportionate" to population demographics, or to crime demographics (which happen to be disproportionnate to each other)? 68.221.219.186 (talk) 03:42, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

oh and heres some FACTS for you all
"Almost 1 million white Americans were murdered, robbed, assaulted or raped by black Americans in 1992, compared with about 132,000 blacks who were murdered, robbed, assaulted or raped by whites, according to the same survey.

Blacks thus committed 7.5 times more violent inter-racial crimes than whites even though the black population is only one-seventh the size of the white population. When these figures are adjusted on a per capita basis, they reveal an extraordinary disparity: blacks are committing more than 50 times the number of violent crimes of whites.

According to the latest annual report on murder by the Federal Bureau of Investigation, most inter-racial murders involve black assailants and white victims, with blacks murdering whites at 18 times the rate that whites murder blacks."

but yet you wonder why your portrayed more in the media than whites? Its perty freakin simple you commit, you guessed it THE MOST CRIMES, wtf do you excpect lol. my statments might be misconstrued as POV but if thats som so is your article, you make it sound like your some victdum yo. you think your helpin your cause by slapin silly facts that can be easily brushed aside after the underlying cause is known. you know people like collin powell, condie rice, bill cosby, their the ones who are doin right by you all , their not complainininin bout da white man doin dis and dat to dem , no, they get on with it and do well for themselves , and what do they get, people callin tiger woods and collin powell oreo cookies , black on the outside but white on the inside, lol why? Cuz de dont wanna talkz like a foo and be realizin ebonics aint no new languabagige. lol call me a racist but you know what a racist wouldnt vote for collin powell if he ever ran, and let me tell ya I would. anyways that was my last post you can go back to your "I be a victum of da white folk" mode. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 72.72.59.106 (talk) 04:49, 9 April 2007 (UTC).


 * And just what is the source for these alleged facts? Otherwise, it's just your word that these are true facts ... OTOH, no one will really pay attention to comments from an editor who has not yet learned how to sign their posts, and who doesn't appear to know the difference between "their" and "they're" ... the way you present yourself, your lack of credibility is really quite amazing. &mdash; 09:24, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

sorry m8 for not putin up the source but why are you even arguing common knowledge, a comman argument wit blacks is to prove whites are oppressing black one only needs to look at the jail population by race and you can see (OH MY GOD) there be alot of black folk in there! I know they dont deserve to be there yo and I know the FBI isnt a reliable source lol so please your right, my ebonics is a insult to all so I wont expectz yuz to beleive me, but yo, da man dont lie beefcake. http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/ucr.htm#cius pick a year yo for your source

"the way you present yourself, your lack of credibility is really quite amazing" yo dat be a insult or a compliment money? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.72.59.106 (talk • contribs) 10:08, 9 April 2007


 * instead of IM me how pathetic I am why havnt you responded here after I posted my source like you asked, whats da matta yo, when the truth hits you in the face, and to add insult to injury was thrown by someone with a "lack of credibility" does it hurt so bad youve become speechless? its very typical of people like you when faced with FACTS all you can do is change the subject lol ok toby whatever. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.72.59.106 (talk • contribs) 07:03, 11 April 2007


 * No response because I do not feed trolls. --68.239.79.97 08:57, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

lol wow your a disgrace, im going to go vote for sanjiya now, I leave you with the above example how Liberals and the left in general when faced with facts just make like a bird and stick their heads in the sand, dont forget to breath m8 ;> —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.72.122.3 (talk • contribs) 09:10, 11 April 2007

oh heres some more links from the DOJ I must have invented http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/race.htm http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/prisons.htm http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/crimoff.htm —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.72.59.106 (talk • contribs) 05:18, 12 April 2007


 * Despite the retardedness of his posts, I do agree with this guys underlying points. Blacks wouldn't be in jail and on the news so often if there wasn't a reason. It's not like the cops just go around arresting innocent black people. And just because people don't sign their comments does not mean they are stupid. Sometimes it's because of lazyness. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Heatsketch (talk • contribs) 20:54, 10 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Neither being a US citizen nor a resident, I can't really comment on the issue. However, the posts of that...um, person there astonishingly look like something copied off Stormfront. In every aspect: grammar, orthography, style. That automatically creates a specific image of said poster, which, frankly, makes it impossible for me to seriously ponder his posts. Heatsketch, laziness or not, if somebody wishes to make a valid point in a discussion, I expect him to present it accordingly. If a native speaker uses English that is way below, for example, my level (myself not being a native English speaker), it is hard for me to take that person seriously. Sorry, but that's the way it is. You want to communicate with people, for God's sake, do it on an according level. And yes, I am aware of the fact that he tries to imitate, no, make that: to ridicule, black vernacular in an obviously malign manner. Doesn't exactly improve your reputation, "m8". Vargher (talk) 00:09, 14 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Right, attack the person rather than the facts. He posted several sources supporting his statements, but you'd rather complain about his spelling. You don't give a damn about facts. Winick88 (talk) 04:30, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

Criminality
Article says, "Because black people tend to be stereotyped as criminal, many people are surprised to learn that criminality among African-American youth is significantly lower when it comes to the use of tobacco...." (emphasis added) Lower than what? Lower is a comparison, but I see no comparison here. I'd be glad to correct it, if I had some idea what the writer's point was. Unfortunately, I don't. CsikosLo (talk) 18:13, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

Inaccurate Black stereotypes
This section should be removed. It implies that the rest of the stereotypes are accurate. Its also very misleading in statistics. If we are going to bring up statistics I think they favor the stereotypes. The article says that African Americans make up 25% of poor people. Yet it does not say they are 13% of population. Also if your going to have a section called inaccurate black stereotypes then you should have a section called accurate black stereotypes with statistics that support stereotypes. I dont think anyone wants that so I think it should be deleted. I dont think wikipedia was made to take sides and be biased like it is in this article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.126.230.110 (talk) 23:07, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

black men dating outside their race
There is a common stereotype that black men prefer white women. Why is this not addressed?YVNP (talk) 13:10, 26 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Find reliable sources that discuss it and add it. — Malik Shabazz (talk · contribs) 19:27, 26 October 2008 (UTC)

Articles for deletion/Stereotypes of Jews (2nd nomination)
FYI, a similar article, just a stub, is now up for deletion. travb (talk) 00:57, 3 January 2009 (UTC)


 * It's up for nomination again because some hypersensitive types are objecting to a list of perfectly legitimate suggested topics to be included in the article. Purely reactionary/punitive, because I objected to their editing my talk page contributions -- which is not allowed on Wikipedia.  Hey, what's good for the goose.... Curious -- isn't it -- how anything and everything about Black people is fair game, but when it comes to other ethnic groups -- Jews in particular on Wikipedia -- it's hands-off, or treatment with kid gloves.  Certainly, an article dedicated to examining Jewish stereotypes throughout history and their impact is legitmate and warranted.  Feel free to weigh in here.[]  deeceevoice (talk) 16:00, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

Percentages in "Film and television"
User:192.114.91.226 points out that the percentages given in Stereotypes of African Americans don't add up to 100. Comment removed from article for consideration here. --Old Moonraker (talk) 11:53, 26 February 2009 (UTC)

stereotypes not mentioned
1.Penis size stereotype This stereotype is promoted fairly strongly by racial scientists like Rushton. Just like the sports stereotypes we mention there is plenty of "at least whites are smarter" atittude towards it. 2.Obsession with white women This stereotype is in the east asians article so why isn't it here? There is a HUGE myth that black men only date white women or will do anything to have sex with one 3.The effect of Obama on stereotypes There have been studies of how whites perceive blacks and of course it's rare they hate all blacks. Instead excuses such as "I voted for Obama" and "some of my best friends are black" are used. There is also a conflict within blacks of the poor versus middle classYVNP (talk) 11:34, 17 May 2009 (UTC)


 * It is quite difficult to find citations for these things, though, as writing anything critical of blacks seems to be taboo. 12.71.155.26 (talk) 09:18, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

Suggestions for improvement
While the article does a commendable job of trying to address and categorize patternable stereotypes of Black people in media, it could definitely be improved with the introduction of actual examples of black caricatures of blacks from the slavery/post-Reconstruction periods. Examples of such being "Jezebel", "Zip coon", "Mammy", "Pickaninnies", and "Nate". Each of these are caricatures that were parodied and portrayed in various forms of theater (blackface), cartoons (Coal Black and de Sebben Dwarfs), and film (such as characters portayed by actress Hattie McDaniel.

If others approve, I'll start adding my own examples, but any help would definitely be appreciated. King Zeal 14:16, 4 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Our approval is not required ... without reliable sources for the citations, your examples would violate the official policy of No Original Research and would be immediately reverted ... see Talk:Magical negro for what happened with a similar "list of examples" ... things like that turn into cruft magnets for every reader who "thinks of an example" ... look at the edit history of Magical negro and see how often the same unsourced examples keep having to be deleted. No, it would be a Very Bad Idea to start adding "your own" examples. --72.75.85.159 15:18, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
 * I suppose that my asking for "approval" was just a formality. I'm not asking that anything unsourced be added.  However, my point is that there are simply more substantial and defined examples of ethnic stereotypes that can be presented.  For example, Coal Black and de Sebben Dwarfs is a far better example of racial stereotypes than almost anything else.  That's all I was trying to say. King Zeal 15:28, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Please see the version from a month ago with the unsourced list as it was at the time of the AfD, and read the AfD discussion that led to a lot of WP:NOR material being removed (and reverts when people tried to restore it) ... this article has a history as part of a bigger picture. --72.75.85.159 17:43, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Okay, read all that. I don't see how that makes my suggestions any less applicable, if that was your intention. King Zeal 17:58, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

The biggest problem with the "archetypes" section is that the archetypes and their corresponding stereotypes are not explained fully. These are all familiar to people already familiar with the subject (of course), but not enlightening as they stand now. I couldn't even find a delineation of Sambo by going to the Sambo page! Trashbird1240 (talk) 16:52, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

African-American youth are significantly less likely to report using tobacco, alcohol or some illicit drugs than either white or Hispanic young people. The reported incidence of weapon carrying and violent behavior was higher among black female students (11.7% and 38.6% respectively) than white female students (3.6% and 22.3%). Black male students (23.1% and 44.4%) had higher incidence of weapon carrying and violent behavior than white male students (28.6% and 43.2%).[4]

Suggestions:I would like to add that statistically speaking the values for black and white weapons carrying and violent behaviour are the same. If you take in to an account sample error (which is not displayed here), the statistics actually show that the violent behaviour of young male students of either ethnicity are identical. I would suggest that this be reflected in the text. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 165.145.109.207 (talk) 09:52, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

What does this have to do with Then and Now?
"African-American youth are significantly less likely to report using tobacco, alcohol or some illicit drugs than either white or Hispanic young people. The reported incidence of weapon carrying and violent behavior was higher among black female students (11.7% and 38.6% respectively) than white female students (3.6% and 22.3%). Black male students (23.1% and 44.4%) had higher incidence of weapon carrying and violent behavior than white male students (28.6% and 43.2%)."

What does this have to do with stereotypes, let alone the Then and Now section? I think it should be removed, that or placed in the section it relates to.

Also, what about the "angry black woman" stereotype? I want to add in a section about that, but I do not know what I am supposed to do in order to make that happen...I do not know how wikipedia works.134.124.134.50 (talk) 19:54, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

Needs more modern stereotypes
This article needs today's black stereotypes(prefernce for white women in black men,dominering behavior in black women) and it needs to be in the deception categoryYVNP 09:48, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

I agree with the need for more modern stereotypes. One stereotype I have heard over and over again is the stereotype that black people love fried chicken. However, I do not see this in the article. Someone must do something about this. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.1.149.69 (talk) 21:04, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

Recent synthesis
Please read WP:SYNTH, which says:
 * Do not combine material from multiple sources to reach or imply a conclusion not explicitly stated by any of the sources. Editors should not make the mistake of thinking that if A is published by a reliable source, and B is published by a reliable source, then A and B can be joined together in an article to reach conclusion C. This would be a synthesis of published material that advances a new position, and that constitutes original research. "A and B, therefore C" is acceptable only if a reliable source has published the same argument in relation to the topic of the article.

Combining the percentage of African-Americans in the population, the percentage of crimes committed by African-Americans, the arrests of African-Americans, and other random tidbits—no matter how well-sourced those facts may be—is WP:SYNTH unless a WP:RS has advanced the position or made the connection you're making.

Relying solely on primary sources that consist of raw data is a good indicator that you're engaging in synthesis. — Malik Shabazz Talk/Stalk 04:28, 31 December 2009 (UTC)


 * This is in reference to the below passage:

However, FBI statistics show that Blacks who make up 12.4% of the US population were arrested for 36.5% of homicides and 39.4% of non-lethal violent crime in 2008. Overall, 28.3% of all offenders arrested for all crimes were identified as Black.


 * I understand the point that A + B = C would be synthesis, but the above is not making a conclusion. Well, either way, I guess I can see your point of view and see how it can be synthesis. PhaserNine (talk) 17:09, 31 December 2009 (UTC)


 * What is the point that you are trying to make by adding these data? futurebird (talk) 17:17, 31 December 2009 (UTC)


 * The above would be nothing as I understand the synthesis concerns and have taken the suggestion of Malik Shabazz and replaced it with a source that makes the above connection. PhaserNine (talk) 17:20, 31 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Two questions: Are you saying the crime rates "explain" the disproportionate coverage of black people in media? How is stereotyping mentioned in the paper you are citing? futurebird (talk) 17:50, 31 December 2009 (UTC)

United States
Everything in this article seems to be about the United States. I propose to change the name of this article to Stereotypes of African Americans in the United States. Comments? Hmains (talk) 18:47, 5 April 2009 (UTC)


 * At first blush, I thought "'African Americans' inherently means 'in the United States'", but then I realized that people in other countries may have stereotypes about American Blacks just as they have stereotypes such as the Ugly American. I agree that the article should either be globalized or renamed. — Malik Shabazz 20:08, 5 April 2009 (UTC)


 * The article should either be expanded to cover other countries, or other countries' articles also created. I suggest the former. 93.96.236.8 (talk) 12:39, 25 January 2010 (UTC)

Possible WP:COPYVIO in "Mandingo Negro"
This edit re-introduced text (originally posted 15 December 2009) from Beyond the Final Frontier: A "Post-Racial" America? by Marques P. Richeson, ©Harvard University, Spring 2009. Much, but not all, of it is verbatim. Online text of the original here. For example, WP: Driven by fear of black male sexuality, the law of sexual assault and rape emerged as a tool to fortify white male power and control over their possessions, black women and white women. Article: Driven by fear of black male sexuality, the law of sexual assault and rape emerged as a tool to fortify white male power and control over their possessions – black women and white women.

Anyone care to offer a second opinion?--Old Moonraker (talk) 18:47, 22 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Fixed. Belated thanks to User:Futurebird. --Old Moonraker (talk) 08:16, 10 February 2010 (UTC)

Swimming
I’ve heard as a stereotype that black people can’t swim and was wondering where that stereotype comes from. Also I think that stereotype should be included on this page with the explanation on where it comes from.Clark.d.kennedy (talk) 23:03, 23 February 2010 (UTC)


 * Without a source I don't think it has a place in this article. Please see reliable sources. Bus stop (talk) 01:15, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

Choice of Food
Black/African-Americans are seen as eating certain foods like fried chicken, collard greens, cornbread or watermelon which are racially charged stereotypes in American culture. It is negative, offensive and not always true on what black people generally eat, but the foods are itself a byproduct of southern black culture for generations, but that's associated with dehumanizing view of black people have limited diets during the era of slavery. It is also like to depict women, fat people, old people, disabled people or other ethnic groups eat a certain food item, they are too stereotypes to poke fun at people (i.e. Mexicans eat tacos, Italians eat pasta/pizza, Chinese eat dogs, Jews eat only kosher, Americans eat fast food, etc.) and are generally mean or rude. + 71.102.11.193 (talk) 06:03, 13 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Sure it's offensive, but isn't that the nature of many stereotypes? Should the article only be about positive stereotypes such as black people being good at basketball and having large you-know-what’s? I think recording common stereotypes here can be helpful to have them recognized as actually existing. I was thinking about adding Kool-Aid to the food stereotypes in the lede. Certainly the expressed goal of wikipedia is to provide a knowledge base, but this knowledge can be very productive. For instance, many people use the phrase "drinking the Kool-Aid" in reference to Obama. This can at least be seen as culturally insensitive if people recognize Kool-Aid as a racial stereotype. If it's not recognized, people might be unintentionally racially offensive, or worse, use a phrase like that to let other racists know how they really feel while pretending it's not a racist comment to anyone who calls them out on it. These days, racists often tell people to stop using "the race card." This diminishes our ability to identify and counteract racism. Knowledge, and having examples and recognition of racial stereotypes helps prevent it from being falsely denied.Moralmoney (talk) 08:44, 10 October 2010 (UTC)

Citation 2
Is a dead link. 196.40.8.76 (talk) 18:46, 28 January 2011 (UTC)

Rename proposal
I propose the name be changed to Stereotypes of African-Americans and the scope be adjusted to black Americans in the United States. The history of treatment of black people in the United States is not the same as in other Western societies, and the stereotypes cannot be so easily grouped together and defined as one. -Emiellaiendiay 20:57, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

Hm, maybe that's why the article is called Stereotypes of African AMERICANS. If you would like to provide examples of black stereotypes in South America, Canada, and Mexico, please go ahead. 137.229.171.197 (talk) 22:18, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

Kool Aid
So, will I get into an edit war if I add Kool Aid to the lede when it mentions food stereotypes? My concern comes from the now common use of the phrase "drinking the Kool Aid" by people who dislike Obama. Seeing as he's black, this is often interpreted as racial stereotyping, although people claim to use the phrase in reference to the Jonestown suicides. Either way, it's not too difficult to find sources citing Kool Aid as a racial stereotype: http://www.thecubnews.com/2010/03/watermelon-kool-aid-and-fried-chicken/ http://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/Pre_96/February95/84.txt.html Moralmoney (talk) 08:56, 10 October 2010 (UTC)

I've never heard of a stereotype of African Americans' fondness for Kool Aid. Kool Aid is a brand, and not a particular drink or food. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:DA8:D800:279:4860:CDF:8C56:4D59 (talk) 11:14, 10 January 2013 (UTC)

Merge proposal
I stumbled across African American representation in Hollywood, which according to the talk page is the product of a school assignment. It isn't too terribly written, but is appears to be largely redundant with this article. Does anyone see any material in there that can be salvaged? Tarc (talk) 16:09, 7 March 2013 (UTC)

Proposed move (revert) to Stereotypes of African Americans

 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: page moved. Armbrust The Homunculus 06:51, 28 October 2013 (UTC)

Stereotypes of African Americans in the United States → Stereotypes of African Americans – The inclusion of "in the United States" is redundant and over-precise. —sroc &#x1F4AC; 05:00, 21 October 2013 (UTC)

The move log states this article was moved as follows:
 * 10:50, 15 July 2012 User:FonsScientiae (talk | contribs) moved page Stereotypes of African Americans to Stereotypes of African Americans in the United States (The article is primarily concerned with American issues and people outside the United States do not use or have stereotypes of African Americans.)

The move was apparently done boldly without discussion here.


 * The inclusion of "in the United States" in the current title seems redundant: as the article concerns African Americans, it is implicit that the likely impact will be mainly (if not solely) within the United States.


 * Does the evidence support the proposition that such stereotypes do not extend beyond national borders? Surely the stereotypes are also known and experienced elsewhere, if to a lesser extent.


 * See also WP:PRECISION: "Usually, titles should be precise enough to unambiguously define the topical scope of the article, but no more precise than that." I would think that Stereotypes of African Americans is clear and accurately describes the subject matter and the addition of "in the United States" is over-precise.

—sroc &#x1F4AC; 05:00, 21 October 2013 (UTC)


 * Support. The article does not cover stereotypes of African Americans outside the United States, nor does any other article cover that topic specifically. The longer title is unneeded. 168.12.253.66 (talk) 21:35, 21 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Support per WP:BRD and on the merits. This over-precise title would only be necessary if we did discuss stereotypes of African Americans elsewhere, and perhaps needed to split due to size concerns. --BDD (talk) 21:39, 22 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Support. In theory this now changes the scope of the article. But I can't actually see any possible need to split the two topics. Red Slash 18:23, 27 October 2013 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

No apparent reference in templates
To reduce the quantity of navigational templates in articles, it was decided that templates must each contain a link to the article into which it is inserted. Otherwise (QED) it cannot be used to navigate to a particular article. I tried to rm Template:African American caricatures and stereotypes, but was told by a reverted that it contained three links to this article. I thought they might be imbedded as pipes and looked at each one separately. I did not see a pipe. That is, there was no direct reference to this article in there.

Again, navigational templates are supposed to help people navigate between named articles. They are not supposed to be used as a "see also," or whatever. If there is something that I missed, please let me know. Otherwise, I will rm it. Thanks. Student7 (talk) 15:53, 13 November 2013 (UTC)

Copyright problem removed
Prior content in this article duplicated one or more previously published sources. The material was copied from: http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=Ic4eAgAAQBAJ&pg=PA20&lpg=PA20&dq=Grimm+2007+%22Malcolm+X%22&source=bl&ots=NIEOOGg71G&sig=Ef7KY-sp7cmBqF-d_rAgPiHGAac&hl=en&sa=X&ei=8TRBU46bEMnK0AWl8ICYCA&ved=0CEMQ6AEwBA#v=onepage&q=Grimm%202007%20%22Malcolm%20X%22&f=false. Copied or closely paraphrased material has been rewritten or removed and must not be restored, unless it is duly released under a compatible license. (For more information, please see "using copyrighted works from others" if you are not the copyright holder of this material, or "donating copyrighted materials" if you are.) For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or published material; such additions will be deleted. Contributors may use copyrighted publications as a source of information, but not as a source of sentences or phrases. Accordingly, the material may be rewritten, but only if it does not infringe on the copyright of the original or plagiarize from that source. Please see our guideline on non-free text for how to properly implement limited quotations of copyrighted text. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously, and persistent violators will be blocked from editing. While we appreciate contributions, we must require all contributors to understand and comply with these policies. Thank you. Alfietucker (talk) 11:08, 6 April 2014 (UTC)

Modern stereotypes
A good deal of this section was originally written by a now apparently non-active editor, Aimhigh3, who paraphrased and even in places plagiarised from The Obamas and Mass Media: Race, Gender, Religion, and Politics by Mia Moody-Ramirez & Jannette Dates, as I discovered when I tried to find more detail for one of the Harvard-style references the editor had lifted from that book. I have deleted the section which was plagiarised, but that still leaves several sections which include Harvard-style referencing lifted from that book. I am adding templates to relevant sections in the hope that someone with full access to that book, and other related sources, might fix this problem within a reasonable time; otherwise these sections will need to be cut. Alfietucker (talk) 11:38, 6 April 2014 (UTC)

Fried Chicken
It is a commonly held stereotype that African Americans love fried chicken, which race and folklore professor, Claire Schmidt, attributes both to its popularity in Southern cuisine and to a scene from the film Birth of a Nation, in which a rowdy African American man is seen eating fried chicken in a legislative hall.

99.194.184.113 (talk) 18:06, 7 June 2014 (UTC)

NPOV
Due to the potential inflammatory nature and subject of this article, it is clear from his choice of username and user page content that user Malik Shabazz ( due to Stereotype_threat ) et al, could not possibly be acting with NPOV regarding his edits and revisions and reverts to this otherwise well written and informative entry. I hereby formally and informally request that the edits and or revisions made by this user be scrutinized in the interest of NPOV and preservation of encyclopedic integrity.

99.194.184.113 (talk) 18:16, 7 June 2014 (UTC)

History of Stereotypes
While I understand that this section aims to be free of bias, It is obviously written from the white/Eurocentric perspective, at the same time, aiming to educate about black stereotypes. The stereotypes mentioned on the page are only briefly explained and not connected to the history of the image. The Media section fails to look at the historical significance of Blacks in media and the ways in which history has had an affected the way that they are portrayed today. Instances of black face and minstrelsy are mentioned in other sections, but should be connected to sections such as this that address the current image of blacks in the media and film. While the summary touches on the idea of these issues stemming from colonialism, it fails to further indicate the effects of colonialism on the black image. I suggest that there be a specified section that addresses and measures the influence of colonialism on the African American image. How have these stereotypes affected the socialization of the black image today? Where did the stereotypes originate? I believe that these questions can help to relieve the bias that is present in the page. Representing these questions assesses the issue of construction of stereotypes, not simply their presence. - User:‎Nicolealeger 2014-11-05
 * Sorry. I am confused by the running together of all the commentary. I would be more impressed if the material were better organized. The article/material may not be perfect now. Anyone can improve it.
 * The "addresses and measures the influence of colonialism on the AA image" confuses and maybe alarms me a bit. Measures? I don't see how this would be done. Social science is soft. It doesn't "measure" anything! "Scale of 1 to 10 how do you feel?" That is about it for social science! :)
 * "Affects of colonialism" - well, the colonials brought slaves to America (and other places). So the whole article is an "affect of colonialism." The Jews or Armenians, for example, while subject to their own stereotypes, are not subject to the ones listed in the article. They seem, more or less, unique to Afro-Ams.
 * Historical affects of blacks in media - like Step and Fetchit, for example? They already mention Gone with the wind and "Mammy." Would a separate subsection be needed? Shouldn't duplicate the others, which may be hard and require editing the other subsections.
 * Your lack of an answer by now does not constitute rejection (or acceptance) of your idea. I suspect that others may have "questions" like I did. Not necessarily the same ones, unfortunately. Student7 (talk) 01:17, 12 November 2014 (UTC)

Loss of continuity
The article seems to be losing focus. Someone changed sexy to "Mandingo," which turns out to be a modern, not a 19th century term. And therefore not aptly "historical." It is also not an automatically understood term.

"Lazy" gets swallowed up under Lil Black Sambo somehow. Somebody needs to discuss goals and aims here. I want the stereotypes as they were in (say) 1950 or 1900. I think the terms need to stay as they were thought of then, unless compression can be obtained by using "mandingo" which seems to be the editor's idea. Student7 (talk) 01:43, 11 December 2014 (UTC)

Effective measurement of African-American representation in Hollywood
An essential measure of proportional representation is absent from this material. It is essential to identify the percentage of self-supporting African-American actors (through acting work) vis-a-vis the total number of self-supporting actors. This would allow the evaluation of the actual representation of African-Americans in acting. Numbers without context is simply personal opinion. 173.76.50.115 (talk) 16:37, 16 January 2015 (UTC)

Good article
Just wanted to say this article does a great job of covering a difficult and controversial topic. Nice job. If anybody would like to help out on Ebonics it doesn't cover the topic nearly as accurately. It's written from one point of view (people who don't like the term Ebonics) and doesn't accurately explain what that term is at all. Handpolk (talk) 09:38, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

Recent changes
African Americans were more likely to appear as perpetrators in drug and violent crime stories on network news. This is reinforced by the fact that African Americans are actually committing crime at a higher rate than the rest of the population in the United States, despite being a minority of the population.

Are these changes supported by the citations given? I presume not, as seemingly the only other edit by this account, on the "Black Lives Matter" article, also added uncited and POV editorialising to a very similar topic. I have boldly removed these claims; if these claims are corroborated by other sources, I also think editors must keep WP:SYNTH in mind. – Zumoarirodoka(talk)(email) 10:06, 27 August 2015 (UTC)

Harmful Effects of Stereotyping
A positive about this article is that is does list and discuss a large amount of the stereotypes African Americans are forced to deal with on a daily basis. However, I believe the article should also feature sections on how these stereotypes harmfully effect African Americans as a whole. A combination of these two things would create a much more informative, accurate article. More information on how the portrayal of specific stereotypes effect African Americans can be found here: http://racerelations.about.com/od/hollywood/a/Five-Common-Black-Stereotypes-In-Tv-And-Film.htm. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.23.88.103 (talk) 03:20, 12 October 2015 (UTC)

Kool Aid
I think this stereotype is very debateable. I propose to eliminate it at least from the main section. I just eliminated one of the references, because the link was dead, and couldn't be retrieved with an alternate search. Reporting fringe stereotypes, that may have been true in some communities, risks giving it more importance just because it appears in Wikipedia. My wife grew up in Minnesota in the 50's in a white, mostly-republican community, and remembers having kool-aid all the time in the summer. When my daughter was growing up, at kids parties, in a white neighbourhood in Connecticut, there was always kool-aid because it was cheap and the kids loved it.--Gciriani (talk) 19:48, 14 December 2015 (UTC)


 * It's not that white people don't like Kool Aid, fried chicken, and watermelon, but that Blacks do.Editor2020, Talk 22:49, 14 December 2015 (UTC)

But if both whites and blacks both like kool-aid, then it is not a stereotype anymore.--Gciriani (talk) 23:57, 14 December 2015 (UTC)

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Pine Sol Lady
Man - Wikipedia is really entertaining. I'm getting a big kick out of the way someone haphazardly inserted a reference to "the Pine-Sol Lady" in the middle of a reference to Aunt Jemima, creating this doozy: "Two other images that reinforced the stereotype in popular culture was the image of Aunt Jemima on breakfast items and the Pine-Sol Lady, a dark-skinned, slightly overweight, motherly figure.[7] In the 1990s, the Quaker Oats Company removed her trademark red bandana and eliminated her slave dialect.[7]" I don't remember the Pine-Sol lady ever having a red bandana or using a slave dialect, but, maybe I missed that ad? And, of course, reference [7] can't have mentioned "the Pine Sol lady" since it was published in 1990, three years before she first appeared. Well...at least they changed "Another image" to "Two other images" at the beginning, huh? LMAO. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.181.198.215 (talk) 10:04, 15 January 2017 (UTC)
 * I removed it, but only because the reference did not link to anything. It will be saved in the revision history, and will be restored in due time when an accurate reference can be ascertained. Boomer VialHolla! We gonna ball! 16:19, 8 March 2017 (UTC)

Intro too long
The intro to this article is way too long; it should be condensed to a few short paragraphs at most. Sdkb (talk) 06:57, 2 March 2017 (UTC)


 * I've shortened it up some, but it still seems too long. What do you think? Boomer VialHolla! We gonna ball! 21:07, 8 March 2017 (UTC)

Whether to include or exclude references to Stephen Gould's work "The Mismeasure of Man" in this article
Although Stephen J. Gould's body of work as a whole has held up well, it should be kept in mind that "The Mismeasure of Man" has not. Gould devoted an entire chapter to probably deliberately misasessing the data of Morton, an early 19th century natural scientist. This casts a shadow over the book as a whole. The concern is that including reference to this book in this Wikipedia article may risk making the page appear poorly researched. It may well be that there are other chapters in Gould's book that do a good job of explaining African-American stereotypes. But in light of the Morton issue, it's hard to have confidence in this possibility. It seems likely that many people will see "The Mismeasure of Man" and not want to keep reading. Certainly many periodicals, such as the New York Times, reported on the debunking research in 2011. And well-regarded scientists such as John Hawks and others I quote below have weighed in against Gould's research, as well as Gould himself. The link to the research that has debunked this chapter can be found at this link. (Plos Biology is a high impact, peer-reviewed journal.) http://journals.plos.org/plosbiology/article/metrics?id=10.1371/journal.pbio.1001071#citedHeader

From an article in Scientific American: "Commenting on Gould's claim that bias often influences science, an unsigned editorial in The New York Times remarked, "Right now it looks as though he proved his point, just not as he intended." The anthropologist and blogger John Hawks claims that the "straightforward" analysis of Holloway et al. shows that Gould clearly engaged in "utter fabulation." Hawks added, "Some of Gould's mistakes are outrageous, with others it is hard for me to believe that the misstatements were not deliberate misrepresentations."

Ralph Holloway of Columbia University has called him a "fact fudging charlatan." The famed Edward O. Wilson said “I believe Gould was a charlatan." — Preceding unsigned comment added by Genett Ics (talk • contribs) 13:53, 15 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Please provide verifiable sources. I'm also interested in seeing your response to 's comment on User talk:Malik Shabazz  Eve rgr een Fir  (talk) 04:39, 16 May 2017 (UTC)

External links modified
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Adding a New Section
The article looks good overall, but I was wondering if maybe it would be a good idea to add a new section? I've donesome research on this topic and was thinking about how there could be a section on how stereotypes affect Africain American children. I have found a few articles and journals on this topic, so I hope some of you guys think it is a good idea to start a section on it. Thank you. Addy0530 (talk) 04:55, 12 December 2018 (UTC)

Neutrality of angry black woman section
I would suggest that large parts of this section need to be removed or totally written. The writing here is amateurish and a blatant violation of neutrality. 2601:204:D980:38C8:292A:6AB2:FFDA:378D (talk) 19:12, 13 June 2019 (UTC) RCF
 * Anybody can edit. I suggest your making one or two changes and see if they get reverted or accepted. Also, you can propose them on this page. BeenAroundAWhile (talk) 20:19, 27 February 2020 (UTC)

Problems in the sub-section "Angry black woman"
The sub-section runs:


 * Black women in the 21st century have been stereotyped as angry, independent, and materialistic. The "angry black woman" may be the most common of these depictions. This stereotype is a reference to loud, aggressive, demanding, and uncivilized behavior that is often paired to a lower-middle-class black woman. This stereotype is the physical embodiment of some of the worst negative stereotypes of black women—that she is out of control, disagreeable, overly aggressive, physically threatening, loud (even when she speaks softly), and to be feared. In this view, she will not stay in her "place."

If black women "have been stereotyped as angry, independent, and materialistic," how can there be several stereotypes of which the "angry black woman" is the most common? What exactly is wrong with being independent? And how can materialism be a stereotypical trait of an angry black woman? Aren't plenty of white or Hispanic women represented as materialistic—that is, as gold diggers?

How can a stereotype, which is a depiction, "refer" to anything? Does a description of Pres. Obama as tall, handsome, gaunt, good-natured, even-tempered "refer" to him or simply, well, describe him?

If the attributes of the stereotype are anger, independence, and materialism, then how can the stereotype of the angry black woman "refer" to black women who are loud, aggressive, demanding, and uncivilized?

Can the embodiment of anything be anything other than physical? How can a stereotype be the "physical embodiment" of anything, let alone the "embodiment" of some of the worst negative stereotypes? Since we were told earlier that the stereotype referred to black women who are loud, aggressive, demanding, and uncivilized, are we now being told that being "out of control, disagreeable, overly aggressive, physically threatening, loud (even when she speaks softly), and to be feared" are six different stereotypes among the worst negative ones that the stereotype of the angry black woman who is "loud, aggressive, demanding, and uncivilized" embodies?

Nobody can be loud when they speak softly; to have a trait is to have a disposition or tendency or inclination to exercise some general ability or capacity or function of personality or mentality in a certain way; the fact that one can and does perform them another way does not mean that still makes the disposition manifest.

Is a stereotype a view? I think the author means, "according to this representation."

And in what way is the stereotype of a woman who is "loud, aggressive, demanding, and uncivilized" and who "physically" embodies the worst stereotypes of black women who are "out of control, disagreeable, overly aggressive, physically threatening, loud (even when she speaks softly), and to be feared" a stereotype of a woman who will not stay in her place? To have a place is to have a social role invested with certain prescriptions (things you must do), certain permissions (things you may do), certain prerogatives (things it is up to you to decide if you will do them), certain privileges (things that only you may do), and certain proscriptions (things that you may not do); a person who does not stay in their place does not do the things they should do, decides to do things that it is not up to them to decide, does things that only those in another role may do, or does things they should not do—but being "loud, aggressive, demanding, and uncivilized" and so"physically" embodying the worst negative stereotypes of being "out of control, disagreeable, overly aggressive, physically threatening, loud (even when she speaks softly), and to be feared" are not ways of not adhering to the limits of a role.

I think our author padded this section because they do not understand that an "angry black woman" has to be angry about something; being loud, disagreeable, demanding, aggressive, threatening, out of control, and uncivilized has nothing to do with being angry, and everything to do with being boorish and volatile.

A better description might run:


 * The "angry black woman" is the stereotypical black female militant respecting racial justice, black female racial chauvinist respecting black culture and black women's contributions to and part in black culture, and perhaps female black nationalist and separatist respecting social relations between blacks and whites. In each case, what may seem to be a relatively unimportant matter to whites or to other black people counts for the angry black woman as a violation of her dignity, rights, prerogatives, or privileges.


 * The angry black woman resents white women who wear corn rows and hoop earrings; resents white women in general because white standards of female beauty don't generally allow for the black woman's extravagantly wide hips and round plump buttocks to count as beautiful; resents black men who go out with white women; resents white feminists for ignoring the special social plight of black women.  Hence the angry black woman is given to sudden intemperate attacks on those who, in her eyes, affront her, and in her righteous indignation she proves herself to be unreasonable.

I have dealt these items out from memory; I will look for the proper sources and add some illustrations. Wordwright (talk) 15:41, 24 April 2020 (UTC)

Lead Image Should Show Example of Actual African American from Same Era as Example
Caricature needs contrast Louis Waweru Talk  06:21, 24 July 2020 (UTC)

Education
While the article overall appears detailed and comprehensive, I did wonder about the section under the 'education' heading. Specifically, I was unsure about the statement that 'Being a recognized academic includes social activism as well as scholarship.'; this appears to be the view of a single source, but is presented as neutral. This definition of 'academic' is at odds with the most widely understood use of the term, namely someone who engages in teaching and/or research professionally. 'Social activism' is not a requisite of academia. I suggest amending this section to make this clear, perhaps by adding something like 'Griffin (2011) argues that...'. Benson85 (talk) 23:18, 8 September 2021 (UTC)

Etymology of "Sapphire"
Where does the "Sapphire" name come from? 2A00:23C5:FE18:2700:59D6:A2E3:D03E:9F39 (talk) 02:07, 20 December 2021 (UTC)

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment
This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Shacadrian.

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This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 22 August 2018 and 14 December 2018. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Addy0530.

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This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 20 August 2018 and 14 December 2018. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Lcrensh. Peer reviewers: Lcrensh.

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Wiki Education assignment: Black Women and Popular Culture
— Assignment last updated by Mayabubbles321 (talk) 22:40, 1 October 2022 (UTC)

Reworded: Second paragraph. Removed: The mention of the show Scandal.
Reworded: Second paragraph. Removed: The mention of the show Scandal. Original: “The best-known such stock character is Jim Crow, featured in innumerable stories, minstrel shows, and early films. Many other stock characters are popularly known as well, such as Mammy and Jezebel. The stock characters are still continuously used and referenced for a number of different reasons. Many articles reference Mammy and Jezebel in television shows with black female main characters, as in the television series Scandal.”

Revised: “The best-known stock character is Jim Crow, among several others, featured in innumerable stories, minstrel shows, and early films with racially prejudicial portrayals and messaging about African Americans.”


 * I removed the reference to the show Scandal because it didn’t add anything meaningful to the topic for the paragraph. CJS77 (talk) 15:48, 17 November 2022 (UTC)

Jim Crow: Reworded paragraph. Added two new source citations.
Rephrased this paragraph to be shorter and more detailed about what Jim Crow means, in his character amd symbolism. Added two new source citations, to support the material. CJS77 (talk) 19:50, 17 November 2022 (UTC)

Reworded Sambo first paragraph and added/removed sources
Reworded first paragraph of the section “Sambo” to be more clear and detailed. Added two new sources. Removed one source.

Added:
 * Lemons, J. Stanley (1977). "Black Stereotypes as Reflected in Popular Culture, 1880-1920". American Quarterly. 29 (1): 102–116. doi:10.2307/2712263. ISSN 0003-0678.

Removed:
 * The Picaninny Caricature Archived 2011-05-01 at the Wayback Machine, Jim Crow Museum of Racist Memorabilia, Ferris State University. CJS77 (talk) 22:44, 18 November 2022 (UTC)

Wiki Education assignment: Contemporary Black Popular Culture
— Assignment last updated by Jkintu (talk) 08:41, 6 December 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 17 September 2023
Northern newspapers stereotyped African-Americans as unwilling to work and incapable of learning and being civilized. Thomas Jefferson had conjectured that blacks were inferior to whites with respect to their capacity for reason, imagination, and sentiment in Notes on the State of Virginia

https://www.americanantiquarian.org/Freedmen/Intros/questions.html#cranio 170.80.111.10 (talk) 00:36, 17 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate.  JTP (talk • contribs) 21:55, 17 September 2023 (UTC)

"Negative views about blacks" listed at Redirects for discussion
The redirect [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Negative_views_about_blacks&redirect=no Negative views about blacks] has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at  until a consensus is reached. Utopes (talk / cont) 07:40, 11 November 2023 (UTC)

Wiki Education assignment: History of Sexuality
— Assignment last updated by MoltenuniverseSL (talk) 22:44, 13 November 2023 (UTC)

Change to the Hip Hop Section
. I am working on a seminar on Stereotypes at the University of Zurich and worked on improving and adding to the Hip Hop Section of the media stereotypes. Below is the revised and improved text.

Hip hop music has reinforced stereotypes about black men. Exposure to violent, misogynistic rap music performed by African American male rappers has been shown to activate negative stereotypes towards black men as hostile, criminal and sexist. Hip hop portrays a stereotypical black masculine aesthetic and has stereotyped Black men as hypersexual thugs and gangsters who hail from an inner city ghetto. Listening to this misogynistic and violent Hip hop has effects on African American Men and their cognitive performance. They perform worse in tests resembling the Graduate Record Exam, after listening to this kind of music compared to white men under the same conditions. African-American women are degraded and referred to as “bitches” and “hoes” in rap music. African-American women are over-sexualized in modern hip hop music videos and are portrayed as sexual objects for rappers. '''Over-sexualization of African American women in Rap music videos may have health implications for viewers of such videos. In a survey study, adolescent African American women watching Rap videos and perceiving them to contain more sexual stereotypes were more likely to binge drink, test positive for marijuana and have a negative body image.''' JPrueb (talk) 14:02, 8 November 2023 (UTC)


 * Pictogram voting wait.svg Already done by requester. -- Pinchme123 (talk) 02:35, 26 November 2023 (UTC)

Wiki education Assignment: African American History
Is it possible to elaborate more on the Crack addicts and Drug dealers section? I'm sure there is more to add, it just seems like a statement and not an actual description of why, as opposed to many of the other points. Shinxeh (talk) 23:05, 26 November 2023 (UTC) Shinxeh (talk) 23:05, 26 November 2023 (UTC)

Expand on the history of certain terms
In particular, more could be written on the origins and usages of 'Mandingo', 'Jezebel', and 'Sapphire' (though I recognize that the third term has its own related Wikipedia page). Nyxtingale (talk) 06:17, 23 September 2023 (UTC)


 * EDIT #1: Have added some more historical context for the Mandingo stereotype. Planning to add more on the significance of the films 'Birth of a Nation' (1915) and 'Mandingo' (1975) to this stereotype. Nyxtingale (talk) 05:08, 30 September 2023 (UTC)
 * EDIT #2: As of November 27th, expansions on the listed sections have been made. Nyxtingale (talk) 03:43, 30 November 2023 (UTC)

Wiki Education assignment: Black American Music
— Assignment last updated by MylesM3 (talk) 20:44, 2 December 2023 (UTC)