Talk:Steve Grogan

#3 pat in rushing?
tho he's one of my a-t faves, he's behind at least nance, cunningham, carl garrett, and larry garron in this category. also, what's that sentence about rushing TD's in a season saying? is it #3, or is it the most ever? Sfahey 21:08, 3 April 2006 (UTC)


 * As far as Patriots career rushing TD's, a quick check on http://www.pro-football-reference.com produced this: Nance - 45, Cunningham - 43, Tony Collins - 32, Curtis Martin - 32, Corey Dillon - 24, Antowain Smith - 21, Garrett - 15, Garron - 14.  This isn't a thorough check, but it looks like he may in fact rank third in Patriots history as stated in the article.


 * I think the part about rushing TD's in a season is supposed to mean that he has the 3rd highest total of rushing TD's for a season in Patriots team history, and also holds the NFL single season record for quarterbacks (I know it was a record for QB's at the time, though I'm not positive that it hasn't been broken since). The only higher Patriots season totals I found were 14 by Curtis Martin in both 1995 and 1996.  Dillon (twice) and Smith also have had 12 in a season. Dsreyn 13:22, 25 April 2006 (UTC)


 * I did a little more checking. It looks like his record for rushing TD's by a QB in a season still stands. Dsreyn 16:54, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

P.K. Sam (WR) was issued #14 and was worn in a game in 2004
This link has his # and dates played. I also remember seeing him wear the number.

http://www.patriots.com/alumni/index.cfm?ac=alumnibiosdetail&bio=28504

Bad writing
I love Wikipedia, but I'm beginning to feel that I must choose between sports and intelligence. The quality of writing about sports, especially football, has become horrendous. Someone please rescue men like Steve Grogan from people like the author of the article about him. I'm not being abusive; I'm pleading for someone with basic linguistic competence to do justice to those who achieve something noteworthy and admirable. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.38.119.98 (talk) 01:53, 18 November 2009 (UTC)

Grogan vs. Eason vs. This Article
The article in its current form mostly reads as Grogan vs. Eason, which is a simplification (and it's mostly poorly cited). Both quarterbacks had their ups and downs during their careers. Grogan had a lot of injuries. Much of his career was spent in situations with another quarterback, such as Eason, Flutie, Plunkett, and even Cavanaugh (on the Pats bio page) replaced Grogan before Eason was drafted. I don't think the article needs to reflect all the minute details, but if it does it should not be only between Eason and Grogan (and it all needs to be cited). I'll try to improve it a bit, finding cites, reworking sentences, and refocusing it where I can, but I'll have to delete some parts of it. It seems it was written by someone who loved Grogan, as many do, and who hated Eason, again as many Pats fan do, but who wasn't particularly familiar with Wikipedia writing and citing standards because the article as it is now is misfocused and poorly cited (well I've been working on the cites and it's a little better but has a ways to go). --Wmjames (talk) 00:13, 1 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Ok I just found some games played / games started info, and I can maybe add some info about Grogan's injuries year-to-year. --Wmjames (talk) 06:13, 1 February 2011 (UTC)
 * If anyone out there in WP land has an image they'd like to contribute, it would really improve the article... --Wmjames (talk) 22:09, 3 March 2011 (UTC)

Requested moves

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: this page not moved, Steve "Clem" Grogan moved to Clem Grogan. &mdash;innotata 18:14, 19 October 2014 (UTC)

– WP:PRIMARYTOPIC and WP:NICKNAME. Steve Grogan should be a dab page. The 90-day page view count for the football player whose ceased professional play 24 years ago is 8742, versus 10345 for the Manson Family murderer, so if there is a primary topic here, it may be the murderer rather than the football player. In regard to the murderer, also consider WP:NICKNAME: "Notable distinctions can be explained in the article, but avoid (for example) adding a nickname, or a contracted version of the original first name(s) in quotes between first and last name. For example: Bill Clinton, not William "Bill" Clinton." Also see Talk:Tex Watson and Talk:Edward "Ted" Griffin. Possible alternatives to consider for the murderer are Steve Grogan (murderer) and Steve Dennis Grogan. —BarrelProof (talk) 17:15, 11 October 2014 (UTC)
 * Steve Grogan → Steve Grogan (American football player)
 * Steve "Clem" Grogan → Clem Grogan
 * Oppose. The quarterback appears to be the primary topic. Looking closer at the 90-day stats, it's pretty obvious the murderer benefited from a major spike in page views around the middle of August, coinciding with the Tate murders. Ignore those and the QB is clearly ahead in views. Also, I'm not why the nominator mentioned he played 24 years ago. That's pretty irrelevant. I have no real opinion on whether the murder's page should be moved. -- Calidum  00:22, 13 October 2014 (UTC)
 * Even if the football player generally has somewhat more page views (despite the recent statistics indicating otherwise), that's not enough to be considered a WP:PRIMARYTOPIC on Wikipedia. The topic needs to be much more dominant to be considered primary. Also, I think the August page views shouldn't be completely discounted – there's an anniversary of the Tate murders every year (and there was also a spike in the page views for the football player recently – perhaps some anniversary there as well). When I search for "Steve Grogan" on Google, about one-third of the search results on both the first page and second page are for the murderer, and when I search for it on Bing, it's even more. Both of them show special sidebar information for both people. (Not sure whether that's influenced by my personal search history – help is invited on that.) The reason that I mentioned that the football player ceased playing 24 years ago is that my impression is that fame tends to fade after a sports player's career ends. Clearly, he has some enduring notability, but there is no indication that he is likely to increase in notability in the future. —BarrelProof (talk) 01:53, 13 October 2014 (UTC)
 * Oppose Clearly, the quarterback is the Primary Topic. It should remain here.  Whether or not the Steve "Clem" Grogan article should be moved to a different title is a discussion to happen on that article's talk page.  This article should remain here.  -- Jayron  32  00:59, 13 October 2014 (UTC)
 * Support the move to Clem Grogan per WP:Common name. In regards to the primary topic, page views are pretty even, which would indicate that there is no clear primary, but google and google books searches indicate that, when searching "Steve Grogan", the football player is favored, so I'm not sure.--Yaksar (let's chat) 04:40, 14 October 2014 (UTC)
 * Comment - Shouldn't the proposed title for Steve Grogan be Steve Grogan (American football) per WP:naming conventions (sports)? --George Ho (talk) 07:11, 15 October 2014 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

External links modified
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