Talk:Steven Seagal/Archive 4

Categories
The categories include "American male judoka, American male karateka, Serbian male judoka, Serbian male karateka" although he is neither of those. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.8.148.133 (talk) 02:24, 4 September 2019 (UTC)

Citizenship
The article introduction should describe him as Russian-American. 99.25.229.228 (talk) 18:05, 15 February 2020 (UTC)

The Onion
Best to keep an eye out for vandalism after this appeared in The Onion:

Unplanned 2:30 A.M. Trip Through Steven Seagal’s Wikipedia Page Worth Every Goddamn Second --Guy Macon (talk) 17:15, 20 May 2020 (UTC)

Has Seagal's book The Way Of The Shadow Wolves: The Deep State And The Hijacking Of America already been discussed? I don't see anything about it in the article nor in recent history.

A few possible references:
 * https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2018/02/21/steven-seagal-deep-state-novel-shadow-wolves-joe-arpaio-217031
 * https://www.avclub.com/steven-seagal-has-written-an-action-novel-starring-him-1821529875/amp
 * https://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/news/joe-arpaio-wrote-foreword-to-bonkers-novel-from-steven-seagal-9996598

- Tournesol (talk) 21:33, 18 September 2020 (UTC)

Can't Correct Inaccurate Information
The page is locked, so I can't fix it. Can somebody correct the listing for "Attrition" (2018)? As confirmed on the page for the film itself, it was in fact written by Seagal.

His daughter was not Arissa. That was his babysitter who he had an affair with while married to Kelly Lebrock. Steven Seagal and Arissa Wolf had a daughter Savannah together. Damage46 (talk) 10:32, 5 October 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 31 October 2020
Remove the sexual harassment allegations claim from the lead. WP:UNDUE and WP:NPOV, he was not charged for any of the allegations, it remains allegations. It may or may not be true, but giving weight to unproven allegations only tends to defame the living person. 2409:4073:2010:F45A:DC92:495F:3ACB:1013 (talk) 15:31, 31 October 2020 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the template. Allegations are not required to be proven to be included.  The policy on biographies of living persons requires claims to be supported by reliable sources and accurate to the sources used, which this statement meets.  Eggishorn (talk) (contrib) 19:27, 31 October 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 30 December 2020
His credit in Japanese TV series Hissatsu Shimainin should be added to his stunts or filmography. YSMDPHDESQ (talk) 10:36, 30 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. [[User:Eggishorn|Eggishorn ]] (talk) (contrib) 21:46, 31 December 2020 (UTC)

This article is from Japanese magazine 必殺DVDマガジン 仕事人ファイル 2ndシーズン 四 必殺仕舞人 直次郎 (T☆1 ブランチMOOK) ( ISBN-13 : 978-4063670219 ) https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cag2nrgUMAE3rbF.jpg

And this is also from an old Japanese newspaper. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EFwwXlwUEAACT9M.jpg

Both says the drama features aikido-based action scenes choreographed by Steven Seagal under the name of 武榮道. — Preceding unsigned comment added by YSMDPHDESQ (talk • contribs) 22:24, 31 December 2020 (UTC)

Martial Arts vs allegations
The main page seems quite biased given that there is a vast section on alleged crimes, out of which Seagal was not charged much less convicted, and a very short section on what is arguably the most interesting and relevant part of his life - his pre-Hollywood life in Japan which was what eventually took him to stardom.

The text is written in such a way as to diminish his importance as an Aikido master. The allegations section needs to be shortened to a single section until we see some real criminal convictions, otherwise, the text looks like mere "bad press". His life in Japan, on the other hand, was not a mere experience that happened perchance as the text suggests. The reader is misguided to conclude that he "got lucky" by marrying Fujitani, who happened to be the daughter of a Dojo owner in Japan. Nothing could be further from the truth. There is plenty of material and evidence available online to corroborate Seagal's contribution to Aikido, many of which can be found directly at the Aikido headquarters in Japan, the Hombu Dojo in Tokyo. Here are some facts about Steven Seagal as the 7th Dan Aikido Shihan:

1) It is true that he did not open the Ten Shin Dojo in Osaka, but he was in fact the first westerner to operate an Aikido Dojo in Japan, and was in charge of it for over 15 years. Let it be remembered that Aikido holds a special place in Japan, given its ancient samurai roots that can be traced back to the 8th-century Heian period Japan via Takeda family and Daitō-ryū Aiki-jūjutsu, being tightly linked to Shintoism - Japan's national religion. Running an Aikido dojo in Japan was therefore far deeply connected to Japan's ancient heritage than running a Karate or Judo dojo;

2) Steven Seagal was and still is highly regarded by the Ueshiba family (Morihei Ueshiba was the founder of Aikido, and his family is still in charge of the main headquarters in Tokyo). The late 2nd Doshu, Kisshomaru Ueshiba, son of the founder of Aikido visited and taught classes at the Ten Shin Dojo during the almost 15 years in which Seagal was in charge. Kisshomaru sensei himself granted de 7th Dan rank to Seagal. The 3rd and current Doshu, Moriteru Ueshiba also recognizes the indelible contribution of Steven Seagal to the dissemination and propagation of Aikido;

3) Steven Seagal was the youngest westerner to receive a 7th Dan rank, while still in his early 40s, a title seldom granted for people before their 60s;

4) 8th Dan Aikido master Hiroshi Isoyama, a direct student of the founder of Aikido and the Aikikai Technical Coucillor taught Seagal and also held seminars at the Ten Shin Dojo while Seagal was in charge. Isoyama sensei holds Seagal in high esteem;

5) Late 10th Dan master Seiseki Abe Sensei, a direct student of the founder of Aikido, and the founder's calligraphy teacher, taught Seagal and also taught seminars at the Ten Shin Dojo while Seagal was in charge. Abe Sensei once claimed at a published interview at a martial arts magazine, that he promoted Seagal to the rank of 5th Dan because "he had the best Aikido he had ever seen". Abe Sensei gifted Seagal with a priceless piece of calligraphy hand-brushed by the founder, which can be seen in the opening scene of Seagal's debut in Above the Law. Abe Sensei also taught at the Tenshin Dojo in America several times under Seagal's invitation (as a practitioner myself, I tend to agree with Abe sensei's opinion. Had Aikido held competitions, in his heydays in Japan Seagal would certainly be considered a top-end athlete, far superseding his peers);

6) While in Japan, Steven Seagal became a priest of the Oomoto sect of Shintoism, to which the founder of Aikido belonged. Given his status as Dojo-cho (head instructor of a Dojo) and priest, he was granted access to sacred shrines that are not public. It was due to this association with the Oomoto sect that Seagal was granted the spiritual name Take Shigemichi. His closest students always referred to him as Take Sensei, not Seagal Sensei. This information only demonstrates the level of commitment of Seagal to his art;

7) Haruo Matsuoka Sensei, Seagal's then closest student who traveled to America with Seagal stated several times when asked why a Japanese person would choose to learn such traditional art form from a foreigner, that Seagal's Aikido was then considered "the best in town";

8) During the founder's last years, it was feared that Aikido would disappear after his passing, and for that reason, some of his senior students were sent abroad to disseminate the art. By 1979, some good 10 years after the passing of Morihei Ueshiba in 1969, the attempts on promoting the art in different parts of the world proved to be a failure given the fact that the number of practitioners was very small when compared to other very popular Japanese modalities such as Karate and Judo. It was not until Seagal's debut in 1988 that Aikido saw a rapid growth in popularity, reaching most corners of the world. Seagal is considered by far the most important disseminator of Aikido to the world, including high ranking members of the art in the headquarters in Japan;

9) The main article states that Seagal also practiced other arts such as Karate, Judo, Brazilian Jiu-jitsu, Kendo, and Shito-ryu. Seagal received recently an honorary title in Karate, but never practiced it regularly. Seagal never practiced Judo, BJJ nor Kendo. He did however practice Kenjutsu extensively in Japan, alongside Aikido. It also said that Seagal experienced Daito-ryu Aikijujutsu indirectly, given the fact that differences between Aikido and Aiki-jujutsu were not as clear nor relevant during his time in Japan as they are now. In fact, the differences remain more on a philosophical ground rather than technical. In many instances, Seagal's application of Aikido resembles more Daitō-ryū Aiki-jūjutsu, and only a skilled eye would be able to spot the differences;

10) Steven Seagal's Aikido methodology (Ten Shin Aikido) is considered to be more powerful and realistic than most Aikido schools available.

All of the information above can be verified:

Martial Arts Legend Magazine #4/Steven Seagal Master of Harmony. CFW Publishing Group; January 1st, 1996;

Masters&Styles Magazine. Steven Seagal's Aikido - The Secret's in the Timing. CFW Publishing Group, July 1994;

Inside Karate Magazine. Steven Seagal's Aikido - The Ultimate in Street Defense. CFW Publishing Group, May 1997;

Off the Mat. Ten Shin Dojo's internal publications. Published from 1990 to 1992;

Aikido by Shihan Steven Seagal's Ten Shin Institute. Ten Shin Dojo's internal publications. Published from 1993 to 1997;

Steven Seagal - Biography Channel Documentary 2004: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQKkqUQuojM

The Voice vs Steven Seagal 2014: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQKkqUQuojM

Steven Seagal Documentary (pre-fame): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hDfoD4Lqx2E

Steven Seagal report done at the Ten Shin dojo in Osaka: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ubz6ZWSUenw

The Path Beyond Thought - Steven Seagal's Aikido documentary: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bVOtlCnm3t0

Apart from the references above, the Hombu Dojo, the main Aikido headquarters in Tokyo can be contacted directly, and so can some of his closest students who came from Japan before Hollywood, such as Craig Dunn Sensei and Haruo Matsuoka Sensei. Also, Aikido journal, the main publication on Aikido today is also in a position to verify all these claims.

Therefore, given the facts above, it is only fair to ask the martial arts section to be at least expanded with some more relevant information about this very important part of Seagal's life.

Signed: Shanao. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2401:7000:DB59:D600:4835:8DE9:9782:4996 (talk) 11:27, 19 October 2021 (UTC)


 * Please be sure to sign your talk page posts with ~
 * wp:editing might be a help. If you are proposing to add Brief, Balanced content in your own words, linking to wp:RS, you should be able to wp:be bold and add it, with sourcing.  I have to say wp:TLDR... that was all just waaaaaayyyyyy too much.Shajure (talk) 20:07, 19 October 2021 (UTC)


 * If you are not willing/able to get an account that will allow you to edit, you might place the content you want to add on a wp:sandbox, and point to it from here.Shajure (talk) 20:09, 19 October 2021 (UTC)

___________________________________________ Hi Shajure, thank you for your input.

This is how I would suggest a text on this matter. Let me know if it's still too large.

Steven Seagal in Japan:

Seagal moved to Japan around 17 years of age, and due to his marriage to a Japanese woman, he inherited the Ten Shin Dojo in Osaka which he ran as Chief-Instructor for about 15 years, making him the first westerner to operate an Aikido Dojo in Japan.

Seagal was and still is highly regarded by the Ueshiba family (Morihei Ueshiba was the founder of Aikido, and his family is still in charge of the main headquarters in Tokyo). The late 2nd Doshu, Kisshomaru Ueshiba, son of the founder of Aikido visited and taught classes at Seagal's Ten Shin Dojo, and later granted him 7th Dan. The 3rd and current Doshu, Moriteru Ueshiba, grandson of Morihei Ueshiba also recognizes the indelible contribution of Steven Seagal to the dissemination and propagation of Aikido;

During the founder's last years, it was feared that Aikido would disappear. By the mid-80s Aikido was a fairly unknown art, and the number of practitioners was very small when compared to other very popular Japanese modalities such as Karate and Judo. It was not until Seagal's debut in 1988 that Aikido saw a rapid growth in popularity.

_______

The link below is to a Black Belt magazine published in 1977 while Seagal was still in Japan and there are photos of Kisshomaru Ueshiba sensei teaching at Seagal's Dojo along with an interview with Seagal and quotes by the son of the founder of Aikido. I believe most of what I wrote can be verified in this link. But feel free to write something else based on the article. It should suffice! :)

https://books.google.co.nz/books?id=ItQDAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA46&lpg=PA46&dq=kisshomaru+ueshiba+at+the+tenshin+dojo&source=bl&ots=Vsj9_ghdBS&sig=ACfU3U06CzSywu1sR1Kqc4pl3-9Zdh_XQA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwj1h_rE89fzAhUqzjgGHfm-CyEQ6AF6BAgdEAM#v=onepage&q=kisshomaru%20ueshiba%20at%20the%20tenshin%20dojo&f=false

2401:7000:DB59:D600:89CE:A559:D82C:EC8A (talk) 02:29, 20 October 2021 (UTC)Shanao.

wp:notnews - do we really need the current event bits?
I understand why it is news. I don't see what it has to do with an encyclopedia article. I believe we should take the new blurb about his birthday party out. Would they belong on the WP news reel? If so, maybe submit them there, then MAYBE here. wp:notnewsShajure (talk) 23:50, 15 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Seems like notable information, of course he's going to disappointment many for liking a war crime leader and country. -  FlightTime  ( open channel ) 00:03, 16 April 2022 (UTC)

Problem with this article
I tried to add a wikilink to this article, but it appears to be locked from editing. Please correct this ridiculous situation! 173.88.246.138 (talk) 16:14, 6 March 2022 (UTC)


 * It's not a "ridiculous situation!", all you need to do is request an edit by following the instructions at Edit semi-protected and if it's a valid edit it will be made for you. Cheers, -  FlightTime  ( open channel ) 16:38, 6 March 2022 (UTC)

i would like to request that the martial art section be beffed up to show the different martial arts segal is proficideng in nc his rank in each, etc /willie,cincu 69.121.189.159 (talk) 14:12, 14 April 2022 (UTC)no. ` global warrior
 * Stealing from the answer to another poster above... If you have a proposed edit (content, sources), you'll need to request an edit by following the instructions at Edit semi-protected and if it's a valid edit it will be made for you.Shajure (talk) 18:04, 14 April 2022 (UTC)

What did Seagal do to not perform military service during the Vietnam War? He would have been of prime military age. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.49.27.38 (talk) 14:54, 25 April 2022 (UTC)

Contradictions and proven false statements
Steven seagal was in highschool full time when he was supposed to be in Japan studying under the master. The master was dead before Seagal went to Japan. Zane1736 (talk) 23:31, 26 April 2022 (UTC)

The intro section also directly contradicts the martial arts section. It says he was the first foreigner to run a dojo in Japan, but says he only taught there(with a far more reliable source) in the martial arts section. Zane1736 (talk) 23:44, 26 April 2022 (UTC)

Splitting proposal
I propose that sections Filmography be split into a separate page called "Steven Seagal filmography". This section is large enough to make its own page. Thank you.Filmman3000 (talk) 15:34, 29 May 2022 (UTC)

german ancestors
He must have german/jewish ancestors, because Seagal = Siegel,Sigl, Siegl,.. is a common german family name. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:9E8:B404:5900:C86D:EC83:1F12:101F (talk) 15:13, 14 June 2022 (UTC)

Sniper Special Ops inaccurate name
The title of the movie is Sniper Special Ops, not Sniper: Special Ops.

This can be seen on the cover of the movie. Can this change be put in to accurately reflect that? I can't do it myself as I see this page is locked down.

I'd also suggest changing the title of the wiki page for Sniper Special Ops as it is referred in the title with a colon and then immediately referred in the summary without a colon. Naek2k (talk) 16:45, 3 August 2022 (UTC)

Pants shitting incident
Should there be a section dedicated to this incident? I would say it is quite a significant incident as it drew question to his image as a proficient martial artist even before the era of the internet. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A00:23C8:8B16:2D01:5419:E776:6CA4:CCB2 (talk) 09:55, 24 September 2022 (UTC)

2019 Word Genesis
Record on Stockholm 60.50.152.161 (talk) 17:14, 8 October 2022 (UTC)

Fact
In fact, there was no fight between them, and indeed no contact between Gene and Steven on the set. Gene's role was to work with stuntmen under the direction of Conrad Palmisano. Conrad Palmisano, stunt coordinator, also witnessed that there was no conflict between them. There is also a legal aspect, and the professional consequences for Conrad would be serious if he allowed an aggressive stuntman to touch the star. Another stuntman, Steve Lambert, also testifies that there was no quarrel or fight between Gene and Steven. Ronda Rousey and others tell these stories for self-promotion. Maxim Stoyalov DENAMAX (talk) 00:51, 3 November 2022 (UTC)
 * And to add that to WP, we need to satisfy wp:BLP for the reference to each real human mentioned, living or dead. Failing that, there are many places on the web where the facts can be published.Shajure (talk) 04:37, 3 November 2022 (UTC)

allegations about faith
There was a statement about allegations, cited to tricycle and to a book. I checked tricycle and another editor checked the book. Since neither of us found the content, I removed it entirely.Shajure (talk) 16:01, 25 November 2022 (UTC)

Yes, there was nothing by Tworkov in the book cited. Longchenpa (talk) 04:02, 17 December 2022 (UTC)

A lot of misinformation
This wiki is filled with a lot of misinformation and the citations are clearly links to exaggerated articles. 66.98.34.92 (talk) 21:59, 26 September 2023 (UTC)


 * @66.98.34.92, what exactly is misinformation? Which references are exaggerated? Dgndenver (talk) 16:53, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

Article tone (like did Seagal or affiliate write this?)
this article seems to carry a strange,fawning tone and seems to downplay things like criticisms and allegation of sexual misconduct. I think it might be worth a review. 172.58.151.245 (talk) 04:09, 21 September 2023 (UTC)


 * @172.58.151.245, after reviewing the WP:BLP policy, what specifically do you suggest reviewing? I thought some of the article as it is was skirting kind of close to BLP violations. Dgndenver (talk) 16:58, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

Seagalogy
I am not sure that the term 'auteur theory' applies in connection to 'Seagalogy', which focuses on Seagal's various roles as actor. The closing credits for 'Today you Die,' for instance, lists a unit-producer first, and not director. In most of the of the films listed in this article Seagal does not have a director credit. 2600:6C54:77F0:7880:EC23:2F17:CCAE:BDFE (talk) 03:58, 2 January 2024 (UTC)

PR-like tone
I agree that the tone of this article appears to downplay the validity of allegations against Seagal and reads like a PR defense campaign. Each of the criticisms are presented as one would expect legal defenses to be written: "Here is a watered-down recap of the accusation, and here is an explainer on why that accusation has been rendered invalid or irrelevant."

I suspect a PR entity or Russian friends have locked-down the narrative here. This reads like it is essentially a fan page and resumé for Mr. Seagal's accomplisments, not an objective encyclopedic article, which would include a comprehensive array of critical perspectives. navkat (talk) 18:08, 9 February 2024 (UTC)


 * Agreed. But it seems Wikipedia is conveniently ignoring that. Alexandermoir (talk) 23:26, 26 April 2024 (UTC)

Phonetic pronunciation wrong
The IPA pronunciation for his last name is correct, but the layman version next to it is wrong. (SEH-gull) would sound like the words “say gull.” Alexandermoir (talk) 23:27, 26 April 2024 (UTC)