Talk:Stevin John/Archive 1

August 2019
A Controversial section could be added, keeping the tone neutral. Basiliskia (talk) 16:39, 8 August 2019 (UTC)

Please change as per the request below
The page is about the channel, so requesting changes to reflect the focus on the channel and not the man. I am requesting changes in layout so that the channel's history comes first and then comes the background of the man behind the channel. Retaining the negative information with references, removing irrelevant content and adding some latest information with verified references found on Google.

COI disclosures for the request - -YutaMales (talk) 14:55, 1 October 2019 (UTC)

Editing previous change request in parts
Explanation: The page is about the channel, so requesting changes to reflect the focus on the channel and not the man. I have re-written, instead of deleting, bias content that needs to be written neutrally. Also, have added reference next to the figures mentioned. YutaMales (talk) 14:54, 21 October 2019 (UTC)

Reply 24-OCT-2019
Regards, Spintendo  11:09, 24 October 2019 (UTC)
 * The only 2 changes sought with this request are the following items:
 * 1) Change in the number of "views" from 2.34 billion to 4.1 billion. Reason for decline: the figure 4.1 billion does not appear in the provided reference. See WP:V.
 * 2) Addition of the phrase "John is known as an American children's entertainer and educator" Reason for decline: the claim is not specifically referenced, thus whom this is known by with regards to being a children's entertainer and educator has not been established. Since it cannot be established through references whom it is who knows him under these descriptions, it cannot be stated using Wikipedia's voice that he is "known as" these descriptions. See WP:AWW.

BLP Issues and WP:UNDUE
I have reviewed the Steezy Grossman video currently hosted on a Russian Website where John alleged to be depicted defecating on another male who is lying in a contorted position (the original video on Youtube has been deleted). The video certainly could be described as shocking (an understatement). One problem with this particular video is verifying that the person in the video is in fact John. The person who is defecating is wearing a helmet and facing side view only away from the camera in such a way that it's impossible to accurately identify the video in question and that person to be the same as Blippi (John). The sources provided seem reliable, but I wonder if this content is WP:UNDUE and runs afoul of WP:BLP. The way the current section on Steezy Grossman is worded seems intentionally written to embarrass and humiliate the subject of the bio. I think mentioning his involvement in producing shock videos meets the bar for inclusion, but mentioning one particular video seems undue to me, particularly since the video in question does not with certainty identify John as Blippi. The person in the Harlem Shake Poop video is wearing a helmet and has very long hair compared to Blippi. I think this section needs to be toned down and some of it's WP:OR statements needs removal. Comments? Octoberwoodland (talk) 05:52, 5 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Multiple reliable sources deemed that particular video notable. They also include coverage on the reactions of the subject which regretted doing it. I don´t see an issue with making edits to improve WP:NPOV or with removing any clear WP:OR but given the amount of coverage that the video event received I don't think that removal is justified. I would recommend however, keeping it only on the Steezy Grossman section and removing it from the lead, after reaching a consensus here. --Crystallizedcarbon (talk) 19:30, 5 November 2019 (UTC)
 * I have removed some WP:UNDUE statements and a claim not backed by the referencing source. I propose, if there are no objections, removing ", who gained viral notoriety for defecating on his friend and which has incited some controversy towards his current status as a children's entertainer." from the lead. --Crystallizedcarbon (talk) 19:42, 5 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the edits to clean up the Steeze Grossman section. As per your recommendation, I have removed the WP:UNDUE content from the article lede. Octoberwoodland (talk) 20:42, 5 November 2019 (UTC)
 * No problem, but the idea was to give some time for other editors to participate in case there are arguments to oppose removing the content on the lead. In any case, my proposal was to remove just the mention of the defecating video and the claim about controversy and his status as child entertainer, but not fully removing any mention of Steezy Grossman or his involvement in producing gross out videos from the lead. I have restored that part and left out what I proposed to remove. If any editor objects they can restore the content deleted from the lead and explain their arguments to oppose the removal. --Crystallizedcarbon (talk) 07:58, 6 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Looks good, great work. The changes are a reasonable compromise which respect the right of the subject of the bio to a balanced, well sourced article which is written in a neutral manner while still providing all the notable and relevant coverage of the subject of the bio.  The only change I would suggest is removing Steezy Grossman from the YouTube infobox.  The steezy grossman videos do not appear on youtube and that infobox is specifically for youtube only content.  What are your thoughts about that. Octoberwoodland (talk) 20:14, 6 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Thank you. I don't think that the infobox should exclude information not directly related to YouTube. The infobox gives a quick summary at a glance of the bio. The subject was also known as Steezy Grossman so to me it feels strange leaving that out. On the other hand, however, in this particular template the pseudonyms appear bellow the YouTube information heading, which could imply that direct relation. If more editors also think it should be removed I will not oppose to the change. --Crystallizedcarbon (talk) 21:41, 6 November 2019 (UTC)
 * I agree with your assessment of the YouTube infobox. The only item left is to include a photo of Blippi in the infobox. I will locate one and tag it as fair use for the article infobox and upload it.  Octoberwoodland (talk) 23:36, 6 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Photo added. Octoberwoodland (talk) 00:01, 7 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Great, Thank you. --Crystallizedcarbon (talk) 12:40, 7 November 2019 (UTC)