Talk:Stiff Little Fingers

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No Sleep Till Belfast
Why no mention of the 1988 live LP 'No Sleep Till Belfast'. It certainly isn't good, but it deserves inclusion in the discography.

Why not put it in then! Thats what wiki's all about surely....

Skinto
I'm a big fan of Hiberno-English, and in fact, use it myself. But I just had to say, I've never seen the phrase 'cos they were skint' in a Wikipedia article before.

Patrickbelton 13:45, 28 October 2005 (UTC) Patrickbelton

Granted its not RP English, but as a quote from Jake in this context, it's valid I think 80.177.152.156

Alternative Ulster
What inspired them to write Alternative Ulster? I was in a nightclub tonight and it was being played, and what a great, great song it still is.

alternative ulster was inspired by the riots in norh ireland in belfest where they are from.


 * hence "there's nothing for us in belfest","take alook where your liven' you got the army on the street, and dog of opression is barkin' at your feet" "ignore the bores and their laws" " be an anti-security force" "they say their a part of you but thats not true you know,they say they got control of you and thats a lie you know, they say you will never be free,free,free!" J. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.191.96.3 (talk) 20:46, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

It was written cos a fanzine called "Alternative Ulster" wanted them to write a song that could be recorded onto a flexi disc, which could then be given away on the front cover of said fanzine. The flexi disc I believe never happened but the band decided to run with the song anyhow. Jcuk 22:21, 26 March 2006 (UTC)


 * Do you have evidence to this effect? The article for "Alternative Ulster" (the magazine) say the name of the magazine comes from the song, which seems to contradict the above.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.156.125.60 (talk) 16:00, 24 August 2011 (UTC)

Beirut Moon
OK, so there's now a link to the Bruce Foxton bio where the 'banned in Britain' quote was taken from. In fact the exact phrase crops up all over the Internet. But it still doesn't give any clue what it means. Who banned it? Can you be arrested for owning a copy? In my experience, 'banned in Britain' is just a sensationalized way of saying 'not on Radio 1's playlist'. Grant 00:54, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

Nope, it was withdrawn from sale on the first day (at the insistance of the British Government I believe, but have no proof thereof). Jcuk 08:34, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

Well, that's a step forward. Let's say that then. I'm not aware that the government has any power to ban records. I don't think we should say 'banned' unless we can say who banned it. Grant 15:53, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

From what I remember, the story in the nme that week was along the lines that it was thought it could jeapordise the position of other hostages being held. The song itself contained the Channel 4 newsreader Jon Snow reading a piece of text about John McCarthy, although Mr McCarthy had been released earlier in August. Honey power 11:09, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

I'm still uneasy about the current entry in respect of Beirut Moon. There are now two citations supposedly giving credence to the statement that the song was "withdrawn from sale on the first day of release" but on closer inspection one is the aforementioned Bruce Foxton biog, which only makes reference to it having been 'banned' (nothing about it being 'withdrawn from sale') and which has already been called into question above, and the other is an uncredited review/advert from hmv.co.uk's online store.

I have a couple of problems with this particular citation. Firstly, I have to question whether a very brief and uncredited review from an online store, which may potentially have been contributed by a customer, qualifies as a reliable source. My gut feeling is that it doesn't. And secondly, the review itself states that the track was "banned and withdrawn from sale on day of release" whereas the Wikipedia entry here reads that it was "withdrawn from sale on the first day of release". These wordings seem quite similar to me and given that the citation was retrieved on 11 November 2006, a number of weeks after the original Wiki entry was made on 6 October 2006, I think it's entirely possible that the hmv.co.uk review drew upon details that had already appeared in Wiki, or even worse that the review itself was contributed by the same person who made the Wiki entry. If this was the case it totally invalidates the citation.

And just to muddy the waters further, this is what Jake Burns says about the single in the "Song By Song" book. Interviewer Alan Parker mentions that the song was "the first banned single in this country since the Sex Pistols' God Save The Queen" (which I find impossible to believe. Please lets not see this claim repeated in the SLF article unless some really solid evidence can be produced), to which Burns responds, "Was it really? I didn't actually know that but I know the Home Office got a bit upset about it. To the extent that they did slap a ban under the Broadcasting Act or something like that". He goes on to discuss an appearance on Sky News prompted by the furore from the Home Office (who ultimately declined to appear themselves), the band seeking and obtaining the approval of the "Friends of John McCarthy" and the involvement of Jon Snow in the recording itself.

But even this is not satisfactory. As far as I can tell, the Broadcasting Act doesn't allow for either broadcasters or government departments to 'slap a ban' on records and the fact that Burns adds the caveat "or something like that" seems to suggest that even he isn't certain how or why the supposed ban came about.

I'm not sure where this leaves us, but what I think we can say with a degree of certainty is that the single came to the attention of the Home Office for it's criticism of the British government's inaction over British hostages; that Jake Burns was asked to appear on Sky News to discuss the Home Office stance; and that the band received the tacit approval of the Friends of John McCarthy and the actual involvement of journalist Jon Snow in the recording.

Beyond that I'm not sure what we can say. The 'ban' issue seems to hold some water with Burns explicitly referencing it in an interview/book, but even he isn't clear on the precise details. And I've read nothing of any substance that supports the idea that the single was "withdrawn on the day of release" - I simply don't believe this version of events. I'm not going to amend the entry at the moment - I'll see what response, if any, I get here - but I'd be inclined to reinstate the reference to the single being banned if it can be done with further qualification beyond the vague Burns interview, and definitely with the unreliable references to the Foxton biog and the hmv.co.uk review removed.

Any thoughts? Kevin Boyd 21:17, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

the?
regardless of record covers, is the common usage "the stiff little fingers" or just "stiff little fingers"? 67.172.61.222 22:52, 8 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Definitely not "The..." Just "Stiff Little Fingers" or "SLF".  I had a school friend who used to refer to them as "Stiff", but he didn't like them much.  Devilgate 09:30, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
 * As Devilgate says definately not "The...", the name I've heard most often used is simply "Fingers". Jcuk (forgot to sign in---again!)88.107.128.123 09:28, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

Associated Acts?
Some of the apparently 'associated' acts in the Infobox are confusing me. Can anyone explain the inclusion of the following: Three days Later; The Trial; Johnny Cash; Larry Crane; Willie Nelson; George Porter? The Infobox template gives the rational for inclusion of associated acts as "Acts from which this act spun off; acts which spun off a group act; groups with which an artist performs; other acts with which the act is associated." If no relevant link can be found for these acts (and there are a few others that I've never heard of or which don't have internal links who may also be equally irrelevant) then shouldn't they be removed? Kevin Boyd 22:28, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

Agreed, but maybe there should be a place in the article for notable bands that influenced Stiff Little Fingers, or bands that they in turn influenced? I can think of some examples (hopefully that I could track down and cite ...?) and I think that a lot of readers are browsing band article looking for or at least interested in this kind of information. . . what do you think? Wajj11 (talk) 20:58, 22 March 2011 (UTC)WAJJ11

A section on their musical legacy would be great. I came here since they are mentioned in High Fidelity as being one of Green Day's influences (both points are interesting) and was surprised to see nothing here. Vickytnz (talk) 14:38, 30 April 2013 (UTC)

Hardcore punk
Does anyone think "hardcore punk" is more accurate for their genre than "punk rock"? Tez kag 72 20:30, 22 December 2008 (UTC)

NO - definitely not. In fact, I think that given the various directions they've taken since their first two albums any reference to "punk" is always going to be inadequate and misleading. Kevin Boyd

Pure Fingers
I've made the page for the live album Pure Fingers and I've posted on the talk page there that the sleeve notes for the album don't mention that it was released in 1995, only that it was copyrighted in 2001. Where did the release date of 1995 come from?--NotoriousTF (talk) 15:39, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

It was originally a numbered limited edition (can't remember how many) and was later re-issued on general release (i.e. non-limited). I assume the original release was in 1995 and the re-issue in 2001. Kevin Boyd —Preceding undated comment added 00:03, 15 August 2009 (UTC).

Explanation of the meaning of the songs
Given that most of their songs (or a lot anyway, most of the ones I've heard) have a political element, it would be interesting to add something about the inspiration for some of them (where there are reliable citations, of course). For example, "Fly the Flag" seems to be condemning Thatcherite, take-what-you-can-get, 'I'm alright Jack', 80's culture. Where as "Each Dollar a Bullet" deplores support for the IRA in the US (not the US government, just generally) it seems. "Tin Soldiers" seems to be telling a story about young recruits joining the army (British, I assume) believing they were signing up, aged 17, for 3 years service, when in fact they were signing up for 5 years: "but they didn't tell him that the first two didn't count". Does anyone know what the story behind this song is? 81.156.125.60 (talk) 16:10, 24 August 2011 (UTC)

Mention of band in high fidelity as inspiration of green day
Why isn't this mentioned? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.146.159.187 (talk) 19:40, 22 August 2013 (UTC)

Ogilvie
When did Gordon Ogilvie stop working with the band? --John (talk) 11:30, 2 July 2018 (UTC)